Taking Double Res First=lose?
BugBrain
Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16279Members
Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16279Members
I'd say 80% of the time, the first team build in double res loses it, and then they go on to lose the game. That 20% is almost always rines. I can't honestly remember the last time I saw aliens take double first and keep it to go on to a win. Once, I even saw rines go so far as to siege a double res 5 min into the game. They went on to win the game. Any thoughts on why this is?
BTW, I only got public to play on, so it could just be that I never get to see a real team take double first.
Ooops wrong forum <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> . I meant to put this in gen discussion.
BTW, I only got public to play on, so it could just be that I never get to see a real team take double first.
Ooops wrong forum <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> . I meant to put this in gen discussion.
Comments
Sometime commanders will persist in trying to capture a double res instead of taking the rest of the resources across the map, they focus too much time and effort in something. It's great if you can efficiently hold it and capture it, but if you can't, don't. You will end up wasting your time and "bashing your head against a wall", because it earns up hurting you more than what you've accomplished.
The situation you describe comes from two factors. One: attempting to relocate, with all the drawbacks that brings. Two: doing exactly what the enemy expects.
I deliberately avoid attacking double res when I command, and I rarely relocate. Any advantage gained from holding double res is negated by the effort you have to expend to take it in the first place. It's far more effective to attack where the enemy are <i>not</i> expecting.
It also makes for some interesting tactics which are only possible on a public server. For one thing, the idiots who are ignoring your orders and insisting that you should invest in helping them clear out Reception and Holoroom are useful because their continued attacks at places you aren't actually attacking serve as useful distractions.
So, yeah. Sun Tsu said: "All warfare is based on deception". Attacking double res is not deception.
However, I usually siege the Dres as soon as I locked one hive, because its a huge loss of res for the aliens, 2 more nodes for me(at least for some time) and it distracts alien attention. On pubs, they usually split up then, some attacking the hive, some the dres.
It really just stinks knowing that trying to properly secure double res is like trying to outfit a 10-man HA train. You lose it, then it's a big lose for you.
And even worse is that when Im playing alien, I always head to double node to wait for marines and kill them. And during the time when the marines I killed are spawning, I'm already back at a hive healing myself. The head back ad infinitum. Many comms have fallen for trying to secure double nodes until it is too late.
you can defend 2 rts with slightly more effort then 1...
when you get there you can immediately build 2 and dont have to walk for the next...
so it is quite useful if you can cover it...
as alien, have 2-4 ocs, 2 dcs and some skulks patrolling, thats nuff...
Its also a nice reloc spot, because there is only one way to attack from (of you bury your base in the back) Or, if you really want to secure double, build your base on the bridge.
Only problem is its a far walk.
Where else (except maybe processing) can you take out 2 of anything from a single location?
If I'm on alien.. I skip Double-res and do a little pressure to marines there so they think I want it
And if I'm marine I make it a late game priority, setup a small seige base just outside and destroy the alien towers but don't march in and cap it..
It's actually better in some cases if nobody caps it, so you can drop it (protected by seige) later in the game, when fades etc have destroyed most of your original expansion.
Some games ive played the commander would be totally stuck on trying to steal dbl res, trying to seige over and over etc..etc...and by the time we kill dbl res the aliens would have capped all the other res on the map and we would only have marine start res, and dbl res.
So to answer your question, NO taking dbl res doesnt mean you lose, just the time you spend taking it can mean a loss.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Btw, ismy sig and avartar working ? they dont seem to show up on my screen?
So to answer your question, NO taking dbl res doesnt mean you lose, just the time you spend taking it can mean a loss.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Btw, ismy sig and avartar working ? they dont seem to show up on my screen? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Monkeh - your sig isn't working at this point in time.
Had a game last night 5v5 and the marine team spent too long trying to take a fortified double res. They didn't even listen to me telling them we had to siege it if we wanted it.
Example: As a alien I wouldn't touch the dbl res on that map that has that hologram generater in front of the res points as it is too easy for marines to siege...at most I would drop a OC or two to prevent a rambo from getting the res points.
However on the map where the res points are next to a channel of water (wish I could remember map names) as a alien its worth my time and res to pop a OC by the ladder/vent and another OC to cover the other enterance and wait for enough res...if you move fast enough you can hold dbl cheaply and get some rfk to make up the price of the OC's.
Depends on map and situation...in a rush tactic its not a factor..fail the rush lose the game (90%)
It just really depends on the situation I suppose.
yesterday i played a game where we relocated to Proc on ns_hera, we let the aliens have dbl res and recpt, even thgouh the aliens didnt build any res towers there, we didnt bother gettin them. we still won the game.
so you dont really NEED dbl res.
BUT! keep in mind, if your a noob comm, its best to relocate to dbl res, since more res will make it easier for you if your a noob.
BTW ASnogarD, the 'Hologram' dbl res is on Veil, but I'm not sure about the other one. Note that not all maps even *have* a double res; Eclipse, Nothing and possibly Caged are good examples. (Caged has 2 rts reasonably close in Freight Elevator.)
There's a point.
When does it become economical to recycle a res node? You only get the res if it has time to recycle, so obvoiusly you should recycle it jsut before it is destroyed to get more res from the node. However, it stops taking res when you begin the recycle, so, depdending on how many OCs were firing at it, maybe it would be better not to recycle at all?
Any views?
I once hold down dres by placing 1 OC each time in a corridor. They either took it down one way or jumped it. yet, a few meters later. (preferably just outside siege range from the previous OC) I placed another one. A path of OCs is more pain and slows them down more then walls. (rines can use small TFs)
This is the onyl way I ever saw dres being successfully defended and kept when faced a good team.
Still, good idea.
So to answer your question, NO taking dbl res doesnt mean you lose, just the time you spend taking it can mean a loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I might have argued that had i not just came out of a game with a commander shouting over the mike GET DOUBLES! every 10 seconds. Heck we didnt even have marine start node cause he relocated to hera just to take double....give ya two guesses on how that turned out and the first doesn't count. I'm surprised in my time of playing ns that it took me this long to see somthing like this happen.