Need This Entity In 2.1

Andos · November 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">or more mapper side options</div> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

NS mappers really needs this entity or atleast update the existing:
info_mapinfo

Why this? Because i want to edit the max siege distance and turret/offensechamber distance.
Many mappers may have difficulties making a map that has a good look and gameplay while thinking of siege cannons.
I have a smaller map and it would be lame if you could siege hive #1 not that far from the marine start. If the max distance could be lowered a little by the mapper (like changing the bombing distance in a certain half-life mod <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> ) we had better control over the gameplay.

Anyone fore it?

Jezpuh · November 2003

Eh, the siege and offence distance is programed in, you can't just change it.

Andos · November 2003

Well that's why I'm asking for the devs to put this in. You can change the bombing radius for CS in your map so why not for sieges in NS?
(Didn't feel like putting this in the suggestions forum because this is more mapping related)--I dunno...

Jezpuh · November 2003

Well, if they do put it in, and existing maps will be edit with this feature, some tactics will get screwed.

jabs · November 2003

This would clearly be a bad idea because every map would have a different value for the siege cannon distance... it would be hard to determine if you can siege a hive from a place without previously testing it out before.

Andos · November 2003

I'm not saying that every map should have different siege distances. Only that small maps also should have some gameplay instead of marines sieging a hive from the other end of the map. It would be hightly suggested to leave the siege distance alone but if you really want to, you should have the option to do it...

Rokiyo · November 2003

There are ways to create a map where sieges simply aren't worth it. For instance if all the best siege spots are crawling with vents that let the skulks get in real close to the TF real quick.

It also helps if there are places in these vents for DCs, so that skulks can comfortably chomp turrets without dying. The DCs wont get spotted until the siege is complete and scanning begins, at which point the DCs get attacked first, buying the hive more time.

BigD · November 2003

I honestly think this would be a great idea. The trick would be to have the circle that appears around "sieges" to indicate their range (in comm view), dynamically shrink or enlarge to match. In fact, I think that last bit is the reason they haven't yet been implemented this way. And maybe some strats would become unviable. People will learn their way around them.

It would certainly make compact maps more viable. (IIRC there was one custom (serious)map that unintentionally allowed sieging of all 3 hives from a certain spot...)

ssjyoda · November 2003

They will not change the range. It is a stupid idea for reasons already stated. So, i got a simple fix for you.

MAKE THE MAP BIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the map is so small where this is a problem, well, the map is too small. Simple

you are trying to make a map for them, not a game for your map. so, no.

BigD · November 2003

Yoda, I think you misunderstood the idea.

Ando's suggestion, (which is NOT stupid) was to have an entity that allows the changing of the siege range. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to program in, except the dynamic "range circle".

This entity could be set to a default of whatever the dev's want it to be. The range would be different for that particular map, and at the mappers discretion. It would allow different designs to maps. One less limit. It would allow tweaking for a particular map.

And you are wrong about who the map is made for. If we have to make every map for THEM at their rules, you'll slowly see fewer and fewer custom maps. 2.0 suffers already with the lack of backwards compatibility to 1.0x maps. Flexibility is the key word here. The mapping guidelines could simply state that maps that are to be considered for official release must stick with the original siege range. Even if it wasn't official, a smaller map if playing with only a few people. I remember playing ns_europa (IIRC that was the name) and playing with a "no sieges" rule and having a lot of fun with that. Variety is the spice of life they say.

I personally have no use for it, and probably wouldn't use it. But allowing more flexibility in the entities in general should not be thrown out the window. A specific feature doesn't have to be implemented right now, and ready for 2.1, but it could be considered for a future release.

Kaine · November 2003

the range circle can be done by scaling a sprite (i think) so thats not really that much of an obstacle... with all that flay has done with this engine, you really think he couldn't do that? i think its a great idea... it fits the story; the Siege works by manipulating gravitational forces to attack.... different gravity on different stations... natural vs. simulated gravity would all screw with the function of the sieges. good idea!

another suggestion i would say is to have an entity to dictate where 'rines CANNOT build. eg, have them as a volume entity, so you cannot build anything inside the (transparent, non movement blocking) poly. that would allow mappers to stop the lame building of ccs in vents and the like.

ssjyoda · November 2003

i do understand it, i realize i wrote it wrong, so here i try again.

They will not allow for any range changes. This game is already hard enough for noobs. Make it harder, don't bother. And, simply if the map is that small, then it just is too small to be playable. If you want a map that small, combat is there.

Angelusz · November 2003

it is certainly possible, just not that easy to make.
adjust your map.

BigD · November 2003

Kaine, that was my point about it being the hardest part to implement. Getting the siege range from an entity would be even simpler. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> Implementing it wouldn't take much at all. (The scaling code is there as they use the same green circle for everything of that nature. It would be a matter of making sure it was correct all the time.)

And Yoda, I don't see it making the game harder because of that though, as it would be map specific and easy to see (if implemented properly). I mean, I think it would be used mostly for custom maps as well.
Or if you mean for mappers, it's like any entity... if you don't know it or "get it", don't touch it and use the default. Though I do agree with the point about just making it a combat map if it is that small. It also isn't completely necessary, and I wouldn't go lobbying for it myself. I just wouldn't dismiss it because it's not that bad of an idea. (I don't know how Flayra implemented it, but it may make testing changes to the siege in the future easier if it was a matter of uploading a new map instead of a new build...)

Though on thinking of it, those guys that like to RIPEnt maps may go fooling with that and really mess'em up. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

h8_F8 · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BigDXLT @ Nov 20 2003, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Though on thinking of it, those guys that like to RIPEnt maps may go fooling with that and really mess'em up. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
yeah and mess a map up by changing siege ranges too much and it doesn't get put in rotations... its as simple as that.

Need This Entity In 2.1

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