System Layout, Style Test, And Problem
Kage
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2016Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2016Members
<div class="IPBDescription">...all rolled into one</div> Here's the layout for my newest map attempt, ns_system. Please reply with any suggestions or problems.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/syslayout.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Mostly I'm looking for suggestions on res node placement. The light green boxes are the places where I'd like to place a node, and the dark green ones are where I'm considering placing nodes. I know I can't have all of them.
Now some screen shots (Consider this my style test):
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0006.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0008.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
These are all from early builds; I will have more as soon as I can get on a computer with photoshop. I'm having a problem with this one that I haven't had before: I don't have enough w_polys. I'm trying to find places to add detail, but it's tough because of my concept.
I'm basing this one off of vertebrate anatomy, albeit loosely. Animals are generally symmetrical, and so is this map. Several bodily systems get involved, and connect in non-realistic ways, but this is because I didn't want to be ruled by the concept. Areas include the cranium, lung, heart, and digestive systems.
Now the problem: My minimap and commander overview both have problems when I test this map. The minimap only shows the middle half of the test, cutting off the top and bottom quarters, and the commander view goes black when I scroll up as far as I can. I'm thinking that the commander problem might be because of the map border (it's close to the y boundary), but I'm not quite sure. Also, the minimap problem might be because the test map is twice as long on the x axis than the y axis. Has anybody else had a similar problem?
Thanks in advance to anybody with help for me.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/syslayout.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Mostly I'm looking for suggestions on res node placement. The light green boxes are the places where I'd like to place a node, and the dark green ones are where I'm considering placing nodes. I know I can't have all of them.
Now some screen shots (Consider this my style test):
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0006.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test0008.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
These are all from early builds; I will have more as soon as I can get on a computer with photoshop. I'm having a problem with this one that I haven't had before: I don't have enough w_polys. I'm trying to find places to add detail, but it's tough because of my concept.
I'm basing this one off of vertebrate anatomy, albeit loosely. Animals are generally symmetrical, and so is this map. Several bodily systems get involved, and connect in non-realistic ways, but this is because I didn't want to be ruled by the concept. Areas include the cranium, lung, heart, and digestive systems.
Now the problem: My minimap and commander overview both have problems when I test this map. The minimap only shows the middle half of the test, cutting off the top and bottom quarters, and the commander view goes black when I scroll up as far as I can. I'm thinking that the commander problem might be because of the map border (it's close to the y boundary), but I'm not quite sure. Also, the minimap problem might be because the test map is twice as long on the x axis than the y axis. Has anybody else had a similar problem?
Thanks in advance to anybody with help for me.
Comments
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test_20005.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Not so, have you ever played MARU? it's imo one of the funnest maps I have played and It has a symetrical layout. I don't know if it's 2.0x compatable tho. Still in beta. I knew the mapper, but then he jst dissapeared. But symetrical layouts can work if tou use that as an example.
PS what program did you use for that layout?
[edit]
I noticed it looks a bit complicated... comments the same colour have to do with the same thing. The green one refers to the RT in the middle of the map, where the line is pointing - I didn't have space to write there
Just so you know, there's no advantage in NULL-texturing the outside of the map, unless you just did that to show the layout <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
[watch.me.die]: Yeah, I know about null. I just use it for the default texture, and change what needs to be changed on the interior. I didn't notice the overlay thing, thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, you should take out 2 of the outer ones in the center or something.
VHE = Valve Hammer Editor? You mean you already made the map, and this was a screenie from above?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm dumb...
Then what DOES null do? and whats everyone use as their default texture when they map?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm dumb... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've made some parts (mostly cut and paste hallways), and I made simple blocks to show the rest of what I had planned out.
Ha.ze: Part of the compile process (called the culling process) deletes all faces exposed to the void. If there is a leak, then the tools don't know where the void is, and the faces stay. The null texture is just a way of making sure that the face will not be rendered. The texture isn't required, but it does have advantages, like when you have a brush entity with a obscured faces; HL will normally render all faces of a visible brush entity, but you can use null to make sure that they will never be rendered.
First the overview. It shows what I have done.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test20004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The dark curvy hallways are low-poly placeholders as they are right now. I have to add details, but the only things I can think of that fit are supports. I'm pretty satisfied with the next one.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test20000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
This one is a small T-junction.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test20001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I changed the lighting a bit in this room. The blue lights now look a little more glowy.
<img src='http://kage.ottergoose.net/ns_system_test20003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I've been fighting a "Bad Surface Extents" error for about a week. I narrowed the cause down to a hallway (it's well lit and in the low-center of the overview). I changed it so it was kind of a junction that looked like an "I", but that caused the error. I'll try to fix it later; does anybody know any causes of the error besides texture scale?
I also found the causes of those other errors (the bad minimap and the commander view problem). The minimap turns out the way mine did if your map is much more long than it is wide, and the commander problem (which is still in effect) is caused by weird vis cuts.
Other than that, perhaps the map needs more rooms, it seems to be just corridors at the moment.
LAYOUT: WAY to symetrical. I may be nubbish when it comes to making maps, but I know my NS. That would get way to boring. I'd take about half the stuff you got thats symetrical and erase them. That is, you have all your resnode locations mirrors of the other side. Randomly pick one Res Node room you have and one you want, erase the other side one, and then erase one of the res nodes you have on the side of the one you want and erase it. This will fix the repitition of the map's layout and make it look good still without much work.
If I need to explain this better tell me. I'll copy your little lay out map and circle stuff and what not to help explain it.
Very nice map. *sniff. Mine looks shoddy now. Course I havent even started the lighting.
-Red
dam tafe computers have no image codex!
this screen is my idea on your hive node placements
amckern
Yeah, there's a "fillOutside" stage that HLBSP uses to clean up unreachable nodes after it's built the tree. Those nodes are removed from the map and any faces that they contain are never written out to the BSP file.
More importantly, "fill" reduces the leaf and clipnode counts for your map, which the NULL texture doesn't affect--it's critical that your map doen't leak or you'll be looking at 35%-60% higher resource counts that can seriously hurt the map's performance. The only numbers that won't drop are the sections that HLCSG fills before the tree is constructed--planes and texinfos IIRC. I added outside plane removal with opt_plns, and nobody seems to be hitting the 32K texinfo mark.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then what DOES null do? and whats everyone use as their default texture when they map?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are uses of NULL on *interior* walls that fillOutside won't catch, like faces that are covered by opaque func_illusionaries and func_walls. Those faces won't ever be seen by the player, and are good cantidates for NULL to remove. When I'm making a staircase, for example, I NULL out the backs and sides of steps that the player won't see--for an enclosed staircase made out of a func_wall that drops the w_polys from 6 per step to 2 per step, which adds up very quickly.
When it comes to default textures, I personally use one of the wall textures when I'm making walls and I select a different one for ceilings and floors to make it easier to see the shape of the level as I work--but there's really no reason why you need to use a default texture at all.
If you know what your texture scheme is going to be, placing your brushes with the correct texture already attached won't hurt anything--although it might be a little harder to tell where you've already tweaked your texture alignments and what needs a final pass when you're finishing up.
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