Valve Should Hire The Ns Team!

Skullhair · November 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">JMO :)</div> NS is becoming one of the best, if not the best, MOD for HL IMO. It would be sweet if Valve would hire the NS team so we could get an official NS for HL2. I read the team is really thinking about making NS for HL2 but it has to do with $$$. If Valve were smart, which they are, they would see the potential of this awesome MOD and pay these guys for what they are doing. I hope that that day does come, because Flayra and the rest of the team deserve it from the awesome job they have done with this MOD. If I had a game company, I'd hire you guys <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> .

DragonMech · November 2003

I second the motion!!!!

Ashaman_Joe · November 2003

Errr if that happened it *might* turn out to be another CS. Sure, everyone would play it, but that wouldn't be a good thing.

But... in a perfct word.... the possibilites <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

Loyed2k · November 2003

....They should pay them, sure....

But they themselves should get NOTHING out of it!

I like it when 1 side wins and the other suffers!

Fieari · November 2003

Well, Flayra seems to be in the black right now, so as long as that state of being continues, I don't mind either way, really. Just so long as the quality doesn't suffer, but that goes without saying.

jabs · November 2003

I don't think they should because that'll mean my ever so low chances of seeing NS on UT2004 will become even less <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Plus, like was already said, it will atrract some of the CS idiots to this game. That's not good.

ka0s · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Skullhair @ Nov 14 2003, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> "If Valve were smart, which they are."  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I would have to say at time they are smart. But they are deffinatly improving, my Steam never has errors anymore, so props to them <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

typical_skeleton · November 2003

this isn't good all the way around.

look at dod... I like 1.0, but you have to admit it's been more commercialized. not neccesarily in a bad way.

main thing that gets me, is that the commercialization usually entails a dumbing-down of the game. i.e, more complex ideas are dropped in lieu of pick-up-and-playability. which is what they'd be going for if it was a retail product, for obvious reasons.

given NS's inherent complexity.. I'm sure it'd be good for the team, but... maybe not for the game, as much.

RyoOhki · November 2003

Flayra is currently searching for someone to publish NS commercially. My guess would be that Valve would be high on the list of possible candidates.

Personally I don't want that, but if I say that, I get branded an arsehole who wants to withhold money from Flayra. I just don't think Flayra will have the same level of creative license as he does now if he was working for a company and NS was a commerical product. I fear that when NS is published, it will become another CS: just a mindless deathmatch game with virtually no teamwork and no learning curve. Why? Not because Flayra wants this, but because as a commerical product, the customers want to be satisfied. And people arn't going to want to pay for something that requires them to actually think and communicate in sentances other than "OMG STOP USING TEH NOOB-CANON!".

The number of people playing NS is going to skyrocket when Combat comes out. Because sadly, that's what people want.

Aea · November 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> Well, that's one of the problems, but hopefully, they will see it's success and allow it to continue, although valve might've been a huge choice, it's not looking good for the Valve people now.

Marik_Steele · November 2003

I'm sure Flayra and Valve have a working relationship for getting specific parts of NS and Steam fully compatible with each other. I can't say I know Flayra's exact stance on joining the Valve team to the same degree that the CS and DoD devs have.

pikey · November 2003

mod hired by steam = 2 updates a year max

Swiftspear · November 2003

Overall, this is a complex issue to say the least, not that it isn't worth discussing, but ultimately it isn't our decision, and no one here can really claim this is the first time it has been talked about. Im sure Flayra is more than aware of the pros and cons of a business relationship with valve, and (assuming they are even looking to add another mod team to thier ranks at this point) in the end it will be Flayra's decision to make.

As for issues of NS being opened up to the imature CS like audience, I think that will always remain less of a problem with NS; the required teamwork needed to win any game would just frustrate most "L337 H@XX0|2ZZz" to the point that they would just go back to playing CS or DOD, or anything that doesn't require them to listen and cooperate with other people to win. We already have losers who jump into the chair and just plant as many cc's as res will allow right now, you really cant get much worse than that in NS.

FireStorm · November 2003

No! NS would definitely change to something simpler and easy to learn and play. I think the average HL customer is a 12-year old brainless player that wants to "pwn 4t 3v3ry g4m3" and I'm sure NS is NOT for this kind of people...

Benaiah · November 2003

i agree, the beauty of NS is in its complexity.
There are limitless strategies and the game can always go either way.
I really love the high learning curve because most n00bs join,
say "Too Hard" then go back to cs.

I dont think it will ever change in that respect.
NS ROXORS, it always has and always will.

RyoOhki · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As for issues of NS being opened up to the imature CS like audience, I think that will always remain less of a problem with NS; the required teamwork needed to win any game would just frustrate most "L337 H@XX0|2ZZz" to the point that they would just go back to playing CS or DOD, or anything that doesn't require them to listen and cooperate with other people to win. We already have losers who jump into the chair and just plant as many cc's as res will allow right now, you really cant get much worse than that in NS. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes, but what happens when Valve looks at their market research and sees that NS is not selling? And when those ""elite" h4x0rs" start sending e-mails to Valve complaining that the game is too complex? Valve will do exactly what they did with CS and DOD: dumb it down. Valve isn't evil or anything, they're simply a company. Companies are there to make money. Hence, they'll try and produce a product that will generate the most profit. Which is not what NS currently is. Combat on the other hand....

Swiftspear · November 2003

I don't doubt there would be astetic changes, such as streamlining com hotkeys and requests and stuff, but I really doubt the gameplay would suffer that much, NS is far from the most complex or the hardest game to learn to play. Any one who hasn't ever tried starcraft before, try breaking into the online comunity today, the game is so mastered by nearly every player (that acctually plays melee at least) there is no way you could learn to be anywhere near as good as any onf them without reading up on builds like nuts, and even after that, you would prolly need to have months of practice to master the microprograming skills to the point they would be effective for you. Commercial games dont have to not be complicated, they just have to not be needlessly complicated.

[edit]
you go email blizzard and tell them to make starcraft more simple so that you can compare with all the other players, see if they change it for you
[/edit]

xl-cow · November 2003

It's an impossible statement to say that getting a publishing deal means that a mod will compromise it's "complexity" and that the developers will appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I believe that NS hits a strong, but smaller sized market than other more broadly accepted mods. If it received publication this would definately increase the number of players - but cannot be predicted what community would develop.

Malakai1 · November 2003

So long as they keep releasing the game as a free mod (in the spirit of things), and probably even if not, I would not hesitate to even buy the current NS from a store. Hell I'm gonna end up donating that much anyway:)

NS is by far the best HL mod ever made. The Specialists is close, and prolly the best deathmatch play ever in a game, but it doesn't have that long lasting lets play for hours every day appeal that NS has.

Valve would be very smart to hire Flayra and crew, though I fear that the game might be "dumbed down" by valve for the masses. I know that the current dev team would never let that happen. <3

Techen · November 2003

Ok. First the project leaders for the projects DoD and CS are the same people who built the mods in the first place. Valve is the equivelant of their publisher. Many of the changes that have been made to those games were decided by the design team and not valve. The success (or lack of) these products rests in there creators hands.

When a game get popular and you want it to be MORE so, you have to tap the "stupid people" market. I know, that was offensive, but true. Right now NS has a great player base, and Flayra has'nt really dumbed the game down. At some point, a choice has to be made. Make the game easier for the "Stupid People" or tell them to "Read the Manual" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

(We had a complete noob last night. He was a CS regular and he was very lost. NS is a complex game and I wouldn't want to change it, but I'll be glad when combat comes out. Next time a guy like that comes on without some understanding we can direct him to NS:C instead.)

Stakhanov · November 2003

Ok , I may sound biased as a communist but if Valve ever hires Flayra , I'm going to immediately leave NS before things get ugly. Valve might not be the worst (they made HLDM , which is by far the most interesting form of FPS DM , much more subtle and fun than Q3 or UT DM) , but I doubt they're going to leave NS intact forever. That game is just too frustrating for noobs... you can easily play CS and DoD in a LAN , but you need to bring in NS friends to play the game or you're going to be a lone skulk wandering in empty maps for a good while.

NS:C on the other hand , is easy to learn. Which means Valve could chose it as the <b>main</b> game mode , abandonning NS classic.

To make sure this never happens , I'd advise the dev team to stay away from Valve (and possibly Epic) , if they feel the need to release a commercial version then it would be better for everyone to make it a standalone game , with its own engine (I know theses things are expensive... but the kickass finished product is worth enough to repay the loan) , the game would belong to them and only them. Flayra would keep full control over the changes , and earn fat money as well.

Kung_Fool · November 2003

Although this may sound retarted to most of you, I don´t really think that Flayra should create his own gaming company. True, NS has lots (and I mean LOTS) of innovation regarding gameplay, but IMO he would just fail horribly because of the game´s complexity. Most players simply wouldn´t get it and it is hard enough for new companies to become dominant at the gaming market anyway.

Forlorn · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Nov 15 2003, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As for issues of NS being opened up to the imature CS like audience, I think that will always remain less of a problem with NS; the required teamwork needed to win any game would just frustrate most "L337 H@XX0|2ZZz" to the point that they would just go back to playing CS or DOD, or anything that doesn't require them to listen and cooperate with other people to win. We already have losers who jump into the chair and just plant as many cc's as res will allow right now, you really cant get much worse than that in NS. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes, but what happens when Valve looks at their market research and sees that NS is not selling? And when those ""elite" h4x0rs" start sending e-mails to Valve complaining that the game is too complex? Valve will do exactly what they did with CS and DOD: dumb it down. Valve isn't evil or anything, they're simply a company. Companies are there to make money. Hence, they'll try and produce a product that will generate the most profit. Which is not what NS currently is. Combat on the other hand....  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Have you seen Flay's resume?

He's worked with bigger companies before, and the games have turned out great.

Empire Earth anyone?

Flay has the experience of working for a bigger corpiration - something I believe the CS and DoD developers lack.

I think Flay would make sure if he went to Valve he wouldn't let himself get buckled down into making a retarded game just to get sales. If things were going along a way he didn't like, he could probably just leave Valve and live on minimal funding, just like he is now.

Next, the reason NS isn't as popular as other FPS games out there right now is because it's on a dying engine and barely gets any recognition. If NS got a lot more publicity, then I guarentee more sales.

Phin · November 2003

But, in a way, won't NS:C be the 'dummed down' version of classic NS? Anyone who finds classic too hard or thinks it sux0rs can simply go play combat, and be happy about it.

Perhaps this is what Flayra intended? If the dev team are ever hired by VALVe, they won't need to worry about changing the game to appeal to everyone or making it easier to pick up and play, <i>because it allready will be</i>. Classic for the vets/peeps who like more teamplay, combat for the people just getting into the game/prefer a more deathmatch oriented play.

But I'm not a playtester so I could be, (And probably am), completely off on how NS:C works.

Olmy · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (vP-|Pikey @ Nov 15 2003, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> mod hired by steam = 2 updates a year max  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
updates would still be the responsibility of the ns team, not valve.

Gremlin · November 2003

Apparently Activision made the DoD dev team sit on their 1.1 release for a few months so that it wouldn't take away from the audience willing to buy CoD...so the publisher DOES in fact have lots of influence. Activision also has a "professional"(lmfao) group of beta testers who do all the testing now, quite badly at that, so I'm not sure how much they would like the way NS currently does it's testing, which is part of the reason I feel it is so successful.

As long as Flay covers all his bases up front and in writing, I think hooking up with a major distributor would be nice. If not, bad things could possibly happen.

Phoenix_Six · November 2003

IMO, the Tribes series is a good example of a complex game that can gather a large, loyal community without dumbing down the gameplay. T2 sold well, and it has one of the most complex expressions of capture the flag i've ever seen.

Lt_Hendrickson · November 2003

Its not combat or retail i fear, its the combo. I fear all the retail peeps will favor combat for brainles fun and and ns will be swarned with combat only servers and those without combat all the nubs will vote map switch it to a combat map.

Can anyone say couter strike. My poor fried played cs for several years and never heard of maps like torn and storm or office or backalley or that snowy one ect. There fricking regular maps for crying out loud. All cs servers are now on rotation of aztec, dust and dust2. The crappiest simpliest shittiest maps in the world.

Dod was smart everyonce in a while they scrap all the maps and make the regular (non-custom) maps new ones to keep the game fresh. On top of that i had about 150 dod custom maps. Now thats keeping it fresh. But i still fear the dumbing down of dod. For fricking crying out loud out of the 150 custom i played flash2 was the simpliest and shittiest and was only in map rotations for senseless brainless fun inbetween beautiful custom maps. But noo lets dumb dod down and make flash2 official map rather than any of the acually decent custom maps. Plus WTH IS WITH THE freaking FLAGS OVER PEEPLES HEADS NOW> OMG WTH.

Align · November 2003

I believe it was said that when NS 2.1 comes out, it will be one of the official Steam mods- so <b>everyone</b> will see it in their Steam-> Games menu. We'll see the effect that has, as it will be somewhat similar(if much lesser) to going retail.
Flayra probably needs the money anyway, paying for the website and what not...

MrPink · November 2003

I'm afraid that if NS ever goes retail 200,000 12 year old will go to best buy and go "OHH COOL aliens and marines I'm gonna buy this!", then take over NS and turn it into...well...a pile of puke.

(No offence to the younger members in this community, I'm saying specifically towards idiot kids who see a game on a store shelf and buy it because of the cool pictures, if you are smart enough to find this mod and get it working you are probably more mature than anyone who buys it off a random store shelf)

Boneless · November 2003

Some VALVe guys love NS:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><b>HLGaming.com</b>: What is your favorite half-life mod and why?
<b>Yahn Bernier</b>: There are many, many good ones. I really like the direction the Natural Selection guys took, trying to do a totally different style of game on our engine. That was pretty cool. Of the more traditional MODs, TFC and CS are still my favorites, and DoD is fun, too. I don't get to play much these days, busy on other projects.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Valve Should Hire The Ns Team!

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