Thing is, 2.01 can be played just like 1.04, you just need a lot more skill to do so.
And pubbers can't handle this.
Oh well, if you can't aim or skulk properly, it's not the dev's fault.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we had fun! because we would get games where you had one man bravely stalk into enemy territory and maybe pull a win off or the lone skulk taking out the entire marine force (note that still happens marines still suck) But I said I liked skulks vs marines with a few of the rarer upgrades popping up a bit. Sure Maybe you have a fantasy about teched up marines vs the higher life forms but in reality where the pubs are concerned is that If one side is teched up the other side sure as hell isn't because once your side starts losing you keep losing I liked 1.04 because it was skulks vs marines so if you joined the losing side you could still pull it off but its no longer like that usually its either a bunch of LMG's vs ONOS or HA+HMG vs Skulks so don't tell me ooh he doesn't like using the big guns and fighter bigger aliens I'd love to try and do a game where we had HA and they had ONOS but it rarely happens anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me, but are you on crack? I thought you might have been, considering the lack of cohension of your sentences, and the fact that you said once one side in 2.0 is teched up the other side will never win.
Good one. In 1.04, once a side was teched up, they could <b>never</b> lose. I've seen tons of comebacks in 2.01, but not one in 1.04. And trust me, I've played a lot of games.
1.04 sucked, 2.01 is so much better.
As for the orginal poster of this thread:
Yes, 2.0 has changed. However, you should find it's a whole lot better. Keep at it, and play on good servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thing is, 2.01 can be played just like 1.04, you just need a lot more skill to do so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, you do need more skill. But a public game doesn't always have a full team of vets everytime does it? You see 56kers, newbies, and the occasional ignorant noob who have minimal skill/knowledge of the game. You don't have players on your team everytime who know exactly how to pull off a JP + Shotgun rush or a well coordinated skulk rush on marine spawn. The range of skill in public games is very large, you can't expect a bunch of random people to play like sYn or whatever clan is the best over there
<!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 09:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 09:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excuse me, but are you on crack? I thought you might have been, considering the lack of cohension of your sentences, and the fact that you said once one side in 2.0 is teched up the other side will never win.
Good one. In 1.04, once a side was teched up, they could never lose. I've seen tons of comebacks in 2.01, but not one in 1.04. And trust me, I've played a lot of games.
1.04 sucked, 2.01 is so much better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's your opinion, other people might think otherwise. For some people the *FUN* factor of playing 2.0 is about half as good as 1.04 (I remember those *friendly* games where you would phase spam / gorge donce or something).
My one experiance of a comeback was on ns_bast. The aliens had 2 hives (fade was iminent), i JP'ed to outside refinery hive (near the pool) and secretely built 4 siege cannons not fully, so they all shot at once. When they were all built the hive was down in less then 20 seconds and meanwhile the rest of the marine team had JPed/HMGed engine hive, the aliens never saw it coming. The beeping coming out of nowhere and they all drop dead <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
IMO i liked 1.04 pubs better then 2.01 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So you are saying, because there were more nubs that you could gorge dance with or singly take down a hive with, 1.04 was a better game?
Get real.
You can do your little gorge dance in 2.01 or take down a hive single handedly, providing the other team sucks enough.
"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]
My god, it definatly seems you shouldn't be playing games in the first place. If you wanna just goof off, go download a MMORPG, something I'm sure you would enjoy a lot more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My god, it definatly seems you shouldn't be playing games in the first place. If you wanna just goof off, go download a MMORPG, something I'm sure you would enjoy a lot more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol? i play pub games for fun because i play serious in wars idiot, the point of a pub is not to get all tight and say "OMG WE ARE LOSING IM GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE", theyre meant for relaxation & fun. but 2.0 doesn't bring this at all. unless your in a clan stacked server of course.
i have been playing NS competitively since january, i dont see why i should stress over a pub game
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you are saying, because there were more nubs that you could gorge dance with or singly take down a hive with, 1.04 was a better game?
Get real.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you dont even read do you? gw
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol yea, gave me a laugh. hey click <a href='http://www.users.on.net/ong67/fag1.wav' target='_blank'>here</a>
i dont give a **** what you think about me, ive been playing competetive gaming for 2 years. i dont trust you to believe me
<!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 10:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lol? i play pub games for fun because i play serious in wars idiot, the point of a pub is not to get all tight and say "OMG WE ARE LOSING IM GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE", theyre meant for relaxation & fun. but 2.0 doesn't bring this at all. unless your in a clan stacked server of course.
i have been playing NS competitively since january, i dont see why i should stress over a pub game <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 2.0 is fun, when you are working to play the game. It's a little stressful on pub games, but not too much. It's only stressful when others don't play the game.
However, I agree, it's not quite as good for doing the gorge/skulk dance with my internet friends.
I'm sorry if this detracts from your fun of 2.xx, perhaps you should look for a game that's more suited for goofing off.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i dont give a **** what you think about me, ive been playing competetive gaming for 2 years. i dont trust you to believe me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ooooOOOoooo You play competetive, do yah tough guy? /me is scared
Hopefully this does't come across as harsh, but I'm not trying to flame you, but most of your points are rediculous.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, I agree, it's not quite as good for doing the gorge/skulk dance with my internet friends.
I'm sorry if this detracts from your fun of 2.xx, perhaps you should look for a game that's more suited for goofing off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol, are you only capable of stretching an already **** joke even more?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ooooOOOoooo You play competetive, do yah tough guy? /me is scared
Hopefully this does't come across as harsh, but I'm not trying to flame you, but most of your points are rediculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ok, but instead of making sarcastic posts like <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> maybe you could point out my flaws and actualy discuss it?
2.0 was NOT fun, and neither was 1.04 unless you played on a server full of regulars. CoFR saw many comebacks in 1.04. 2.01 is fun and way more balanced than 1.04 or 2.0 was. 2.0 was alien dominance and 1.04 was jet pack lameness. 2.01, with both sides being equal in player skill, can go either way, depending on the map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On top of that, the only examples used to support your cause was a gorge dance or slaughtering stupid aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> my bad, personal experiances make **** cases <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You never say why 1.04 was better than 2.01 pubs.
You say it was, but never why.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> look at the first page (2nd rather if you have 15 post pages
Anyway, to the original poster (and anyone else who dislikes this version):
2.xx is completely different than 1.xx, but yet it is still the same game. The guns are the same, the equiptment is the same, the upgrades are the same (marines), the aliens are the same (aside from a few different abilities and thier new placement hive wise), the chambers are the same (but they all actually help you some way instead of just the defense chamber) just the timeframes for things showing up is alot faster for both sides.
The game is now more about resources, as someone has already stated. The more resources you control, the more likely you will win, or at the very least put up a hell of a fight. Yes the game is about teamwork, its the very root that the game was created on. It does require a large learning curve, so give the newer people a break and help them along if you seem to know more than them. My opinion on what you should do, try different servers if the ones you are playing on seem "noobish" for lack of a better term. Also, try different times of the day if possible. Alot of the "better" players for that server may join later/earlier than you are playing, and you may get the game you are looking for around those times.
Now, for everyone else who thinks that 1.xx is better than 2.xx:
I used to think the same thing when i started playing 2.xx, but after playing it, my opinion changed. The thing that swayed me (well the major turning point anyway) is the fact that a 2 hive lock down means almost diddly now. In 1.xx you could lock down 2 hives as marines, soak up res just off of 3 rts, and take the next 40 hours to tech up and end the game when you wanted. Meanwhile the aliens who have 192843874 rts run around as skulks, lerks or building WoL as gorges everywhere because thats all they could do while waiting for the other team to finally get sick of the map and want to end it.
How does this situation end out now? Marines lock down 2 hives, and soak off of 3 rts while the aliens have the remaining rts (somewhere in the 5-8 range). The 3 rts the marines have have paid for the lock downs and some upgrades. Meanwhile, the aliens now have a chance to use the bigger evolutions they couldn't in 1.xx to get those hives back, the 20 turret farm strategy from 1.xx only lasts so long now against a onos or 4, and the marines find themselves actually haveing to try to win the game.
The 1.xx battle for the 2nd hive is still here in 2.xx, but its not just the vanilla marines vs skulks anymore, it's the lvl'd up marines vs skulks/lerks/fades which IMO is a much more intense battle.
<!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 04:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look at the first page (2nd rather if you have 15 post pages <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean the "requires more teamwork" part?
In my opinion, NS the way it is now, leans alot more towards RTS than it did in 1.04. I like the race for RTS, allthough by doing this, NS has taken upon itself the bane of many RTS' out there. There will allmost allways be one team dominating right from the start. If you're a bit late in the race for RT's and your opponent get's more than you for even a minute, chances are very big that they'll win the game.
Amazingly, my experience of 1.04 actually seemed balanced. I played on Team Fun server, and there were regulars there. Marines never used a jp rush, so I don't even know what it is like to experience it (as in, I have not once ever seen one). I saw two hive lockdowns, and I saw them broken. I remember a game where marines locked down Processing on hera. They had it for about 40 minutes, getting full tech, before we finally took down the pg and tf in a single run. We put up data core hive, then they killed archiving, then we put up vent hive. We had so much res by then that they didn't stand a chance, even at full tech.
Maybe balancing the jp would have been enough to fix 1.04. I really did like having a permagorge. I do like 2.xx, and I realize that it is a different game. I just think it would be cool to go back to 1.04 sometimes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we had fun! because we would get games where you had one man bravely stalk into enemy territory and maybe pull a win off or the lone skulk taking out the entire marine force (note that still happens marines still suck) But I said I liked skulks vs marines with a few of the rarer upgrades popping up a bit. Sure Maybe you have a fantasy about teched up marines vs the higher life forms but in reality where the pubs are concerned is that If one side is teched up the other side sure as hell isn't because once your side starts losing you keep losing I liked 1.04 because it was skulks vs marines so if you joined the losing side you could still pull it off but its no longer like that usually its either a bunch of LMG's vs ONOS or HA+HMG vs Skulks so don't tell me ooh he doesn't like using the big guns and fighter bigger aliens I'd love to try and do a game where we had HA and they had ONOS but it rarely happens anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What pubs have you been playing on <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->? Most games seem to be HA against lots and lots of higher evolutions. In 1.04 I was skulk or gorge most of the time, now it seems I'm just fade 95% of the game and a little gorging here and there. It's almost not even fun being a fade or onos now, they are just to common, even when you are losing.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soylent green+Nov 13 2003, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Nov 13 2003, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we had fun! because we would get games where you had one man bravely stalk into enemy territory and maybe pull a win off or the lone skulk taking out the entire marine force (note that still happens marines still suck) But I said I liked skulks vs marines with a few of the rarer upgrades popping up a bit. Sure Maybe you have a fantasy about teched up marines vs the higher life forms but in reality where the pubs are concerned is that If one side is teched up the other side sure as hell isn't because once your side starts losing you keep losing I liked 1.04 because it was skulks vs marines so if you joined the losing side you could still pull it off but its no longer like that usually its either a bunch of LMG's vs ONOS or HA+HMG vs Skulks so don't tell me ooh he doesn't like using the big guns and fighter bigger aliens I'd love to try and do a game where we had HA and they had ONOS but it rarely happens anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What pubs have you been playing on <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->? Most games seem to be HA against lots and lots of higher evolutions. In 1.04 I was skulk or gorge most of the time, now it seems I'm just fade 95% of the game and a little gorging here and there. It's almost not even fun being a fade or onos now, they are just to common, even when you are losing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> too true, in 1.04 the Onos was rarely seen
so when you actualy did see it you were like 'woah! what a tank! i wanna be that'
in 2.01 theyre so common theyre just not as good anymore :X
Perhaps its just been my experiences, but it seems that there tends to be more of a trend of moving away from the RTS experience for NS and more of a drive towards the deathmatching aspects of it - very few people are very focused on collecting resource towers or any type of material warfare, and instead continue to focus on how many kills they can get. Its a lot more lopsided on the alien team, where there really sin't much of an RTS aspect at all (The fact that the OC has become little more than a speed bump or a wet roll of toilet paper against anything higher than a vanilla marine is a major part of this).
It seems that a lot of people don't see anymore the benefits of thinking strategically, and are simply working to save up resource to achieve higher lifeforms and kill everyone they can, and maybe hope that we can swamp the marines and run them out of res. I would love to see more of a strategic aspect of the game make a comeback, and the tactical side decrease a bit more. There are always going to be people who come to NS who are *not* crack shooters or super faders or have excellent skulking skills - but there should be an aspect of the game for them as well. It would be nice to find new ways and have new options for supporting your team, rather than just new types of rushes that can be used.
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+Nov 12 2003, 11:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Nov 12 2003, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 04:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look at the first page (2nd rather if you have 15 post pages <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean the "requires more teamwork" part? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah... 1.04 took more teamwork than 2.0... keep telling yourself that. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've been here from the beginning, and played each and every version of this game. I've also made a point to play on as many public 10v10-ish servers as possible to see how much diversity/variation I can find. From this experience my opinions/observations are as follows: 1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial. 2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate. 3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games). 4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone. 5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday. 6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4. 7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04. As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2.
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Nov 12 2003, 07:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Nov 12 2003, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been here from the beginning, and played each and every version of this game. I've also made a point to play on as many public 10v10-ish servers as possible to see how much diversity/variation I can find. From this experience my opinions/observations are as follows: 1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial. 2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate. 3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games). 4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone. 5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday. 6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4. 7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04. As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.) True 2.) Disputable 3.) False, there were only a couple of abusive strats which owned 4.) False, 2.xx is more popular than 1.04 5.) Disputable 6.) False, games of 1.04 lasted on hours, 2.01 hardly lasts more than 20 min, people f4 because they are impatient 7.) No, it's just that in 1.04 everyone got really used to losing on aliens side and winning on marines side. In 2.01, either side can win, leading to frustations... I hardly see this as a bad thing.
I dont want to analyse into it, but 1.0x games simply have this large-scale-battle feel to it that 2.0x's lack. That is the main thing I miss about ns 1.0x's.
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Nov 12 2003, 06:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Nov 12 2003, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been here from the beginning, and played each and every version of this game. I've also made a point to play on as many public 10v10-ish servers as possible to see how much diversity/variation I can find. From this experience my opinions/observations are as follows: 1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial. 2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate. 3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games). 4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone. 5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday. 6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4. 7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04. As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You have ironically pretty much summed up everything that I have experienced over the past 10-11 months.
I also have to re-emphasize what you mentioned regarding comebacks. This was one of my favorite parts of 1.04. When you had 2 teams of evenly stacked regulars, you knew you were in for a good game. Things could be going so grim for one team and dramatically change a few minutes later with some skillful teamwork from 3 or 4 players, regardless of their class. 1.04 allowed for more flexibility of the classes, enabling LA JPers to take down hives and small groups of skulks to take down TFs and Phase gates in certain turret farmed areas.
Most of the time games of 2.0x are decided within the first few minutes, and the remainder of the gameplay just becomes a formality. There are no real "close calls," and games just don't get anymore predictable in pubs.
<!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 01:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, but we aren't talking about Clan Wars. It’s <i>public</i> that are suffering. And without an active pub scene the clan scene dies as well (with no new clans being made).
This is where I think NS is flawed, it requires TOO much teamwork in public mode (meaning random people vs. random people and half of those wouldn’t have a clue on how to play like they're in a war) and as you said, is rather frustrating and annoying because there is none
Let’s just look at some other games that are quite successful
CS: ultimate pub, you can do whatever the hell you want without having a frustrating game (unless you have hackerphobia) and doesn't require an ounce of teamwork, yet it is the most ONLINE played game in the world
DoD: this requires more teamwork then CS, but still you can go around capping flags, fast respawn meaning more constant games (10 second respawn). But still you can have a good time in pub mode without requiring too much teamwork
Then you get NS, which at its current state (2.01) requires a load of teamwork for marines, less for aliens but you still need it. Unlike 1.04, you can’t **** around when there is no teamwork and have any fun, its just frustrating, causing people to leave the game and sometimes never come back. In 1.04, there were JPs which were a major fun factor in public mode. Sure, they were unbalanced majorly in wide open maps (fun maps?) and vent infested maps (nancy?) but now, they're just USELESS with public teams who have no idea how to use it
also, in 1.04 you could say, guard a res point and try to see how many skulks you could down before you die (note: not rambo'ing) or just try out your silent/not silent bhop skills
Now, all the unbalancing factors could have been ironed out i.e. JP nerfing (not to the extreme of 2.0), removing the ‘hit back’ that skulks had on bunny hopping marines (extreme push pack) and others which I can’t really think of atm.
My hope is that NS:C / 2.1 will relieve the public issues that NS currently has and make games more enjoyable
I think I remember an Australian vet (Hybrid-UNKNOWN) said that they should’ve just made 2.0 like 1.04, but just removing the serious issues (overpowered JPs) and I agree with him.
If you disagree with anything I’ve said, give a reason for it, don’t just say ‘NO MAN YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG’<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't talking about clan wars specifically. IMO the clan scene is very balanced atm (just a few minor disrepencies that should hopefully be fixed when 2.1 comes out).
I was trying to address why people are finding public games so frustrating. Obviously I didn't do too good a job of it. I realise why public play is so important, it's the groundwork from which clans spring from, and yes without it NS will die. I saw many posts regarding people's discontent with the way many public games were played, and these people were blaming it on the game itself, which is in my opinion incorrect. Yes a lot of teamwork is required, but if you don't realise this by now then you shouldn't be playing NS in the first place. If you don't like teamwork, NS is not for you - it's as simple as that. From what I can tell, the devs don't have any plans on changing this, and personally I don't want them to.
I know how hard it is to get some random pubbers to work as a team, but it CAN BE DONE. I think one of the main sources of frustration in public games, is trying to win a game as marines. When it can be pulled off successfully, it really is so bloody satisfying. However, to reach this stage a few essential ingredients are needed:
1. A commander with a mic and half a clue. 2. A field sergeant or two who can rally his fellow marines around him, and lead them effectively into hostile territory. 3. Marines that LISTEN. If you don't listen to whats going on around you (for example, PHASE NOW NOW NOW STOP HUMPING THAT F**KING ARMOURY FFS) you deserve to die, be devoured 30 times and lose. LISTEN to what your commander/field sergeant/vet/regular is telling you. Don't try and play the game like CS/DOD where you are the most important person (in your own eyes). It's not in the same league as these games. So don't. 4. If you don't know what to do, ASK. If you're in a server full of randoms then this isn't going to get you anywhere, but don't be afraid to ask regardless. Please. Usually you'll have at least one decent soul around who's only too happy to help. Did you get flamed? Either ignore them, or simply say 'Thanks for helping me learn how to play, I really appreciate the assistance you've provided. You're helping me become a much better player with your abuse - cheers' (maybe something a little less long winded, but you get the drift).
I would much rather a newish player ask me 'what does this do?' 'where should I go?' than run around aimlessly, wasting time and acheiving nothing. If newer players are up front about their newbishness and aren't afraid to ask questions, they'll have a much easier time of it than if they silently run around doing their own thing while the team screams at them to OMG PHASE NOW!11@
Now, to a lesser extent, the aliens need a similar mindset. Sometimes, you have to be prepared to delay your favourite evolution (onos/fade/lerk) by dropping a res tower/chamber at the start of the round. Don't hoard your res. It helps no one and pisses off the rest of your team. If you're unsure of what to drop, ask. 'DC or MC?' 'Do you guys want me to save for a hive?'
Or, if you have sufficient gorges already, why not ask the team if they mind if you go fade/onos? A lot of the time, as long as you don't have a rep for res whoring then dying 1 minute later, they'll more than likely say 'Yeah mate no worries, just don't die ok?'. If you don't ask, be prepared to be labelled a res ****. It's as simple as that.
These are a few of the basic elements that are needed for public play. I have the feeling some of you will say 'Too much! I just wanna jump in and have some fun!'. I don't have an answer for that. Both sides are designed to rely on varying amounts of teamwork to win. Some of the very basics of this teamwork are listed above. I think if the above tips require too much effort for you to enjoy yourself, then perhaps NS isn't the game for you. I advise waiting for NS:Combat (Which I honestly believe will improve overall teamwork on a tactical scale in vanilla NS)
Now, onto the 1.04 vs 2.xx discussion.
Forget CS and DOD, they have no place in a discussion such as this. Once you remove the obvious similarity of shooting guns from an FPS perspective, NS is nothing like them. Yes they're easier to get into, the learning curve is nowhere near as steep, and you can rambo effectively. But does this make them more fun than NS?
Hell no.
In 1.04, owning multiple skulks as an LA/LMG marine may have been fun for you, but what about the poor bloody skulks? Do you think THEY were happy with being pwned repeatedly by the same marine? As if they weren't getting frustrated. Of course they were. You have to look at it from both perspectives.
In every argument I've seen that praises 1.04, the person's opinion is based around why it was so fun for marines.
WE KNOW THIS.
1.04 WAS fun for marines. No one disputes this. However, it was to the detriment of the overall game.
Marines ruled 1.04. It was a no brainer, unless they decided <b>not</b> to use cheese tactics like jp/hmg and two hive lockdowns. Then, perhaps, you'd get a fairly decent game. <b>Sometimes.</b> Usually, once the aliens got the 2nd hive, it was gg. Does anyone remember how many people simply stopped playing 1.04 because it was the same thing over and over again? Most battles were centered around well known choke points in every map. There was hardly any variation in strategy. To put it simply, it was boring.
2.01 breathes new live into NS, soon to be given another kickstart by 2.1. The room for increased tactics and strategies has increased tenfold, it's up to the players to put this to good use. The game isn't going to do it for them. Where would be the fun in that? In regards to comebacks, I have seen so many in 2.01 its just not funny .. I seem to be one of the very few to experience this though. Many pubs have been nailbiters, with marines taking down one hive just as aliens get another 2nd hive up while marine spawn and marine-held double res both come under attack, marines scrambling frantically to save their bases (which is more important? MS or double res?? YOU BETTER BLOODY DECIDE QUICK!) while aliens scure more nodes in the meantime..
In my experience, you get out of NS what you put in.
Wow the guy above is quite silly... that whole one marine owning the skulks and how it felt to be the skulks thing was cute but guess what better skulk kicked that marines ****! 1.04 had more of a skill factor so the skilled players could come around and win games now its the team that knows the tatic sticks to and uses it wins and guess what in pubs usally only one side know's these tatics and the other side loses and dont you ever say if you dont like teamwork then go away NS isnt for you YOU HAVE NO GOD DAMN RIGHT TO TELL PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY, YOU PLAY AND SHUT IT IF OTHER HAVE A PROBLEM LET THEM VOICE IT BUT NEVER SEND THEM AWAY! wow thats all im going say about him back to the regular post
I've never seen me quoted more then this but its mostly hate quoting so **** you 2 people <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> but it's true deal with it. You say NS 2.0 is more popular un uh it got more support and advertising then 1.04 ever did the second it came out it was advertised all over game spy this leading to a massive influence of people someone quoted 22000 and then down to 14000 thats basically 8000 players not liking a game a FREE game for a mod thats horrible. I've played enough pubs to know that its not HA vs Fades and Onos don't **** which is what it is. I could join a game now any freaking pub right now and BAM one side would be losing and with no hope of a comeback and just being pushed back slowly while the other side is more then likely Stacked with clanners (I don't like clanners deal with it) and in NS the ability to dominate is sickening the reason other games are doing better is because theres not such a dominance factor there is always HOPE!!! hence fun, excitement, and a real sense of purpose you wanna know why people don't go for the capturing res nodes anymore? Its getting boring doing something that you've done before and more then likely is pointless.
I'm throwing my full support and hope's of a revival of NS fun factor in NS:Combat because it looks to be what was addicting about 1.04 (Yeah I'm a little biased because I loved playing it and in that time I had 1 jp rush thats right and it was when 5 clanners joined and took comm) you all tell me That its stupid and I'm wrong and 2.0 is SOOOO much more balanced and you seem almost afraid that a skilled player could bypass the RTS element and win the game himself if such an element existed in NS it would still be addictive but its lost that. Oh and Chowder damn fine comments don't let these buggers whine and try and shoot down each one of your list statements because like them or not none of them are false.
<!--QuoteBegin--[A]pe+Nov 12 2003, 08:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([A]pe @ Nov 12 2003, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Nov 12 2003, 01:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Nov 12 2003, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, but we aren't talking about Clan Wars. It’s <i>public</i> that are suffering. And without an active pub scene the clan scene dies as well (with no new clans being made).
This is where I think NS is flawed, it requires TOO much teamwork in public mode (meaning random people vs. random people and half of those wouldn’t have a clue on how to play like they're in a war) and as you said, is rather frustrating and annoying because there is none
Let’s just look at some other games that are quite successful
CS: ultimate pub, you can do whatever the hell you want without having a frustrating game (unless you have hackerphobia) and doesn't require an ounce of teamwork, yet it is the most ONLINE played game in the world
DoD: this requires more teamwork then CS, but still you can go around capping flags, fast respawn meaning more constant games (10 second respawn). But still you can have a good time in pub mode without requiring too much teamwork
Then you get NS, which at its current state (2.01) requires a load of teamwork for marines, less for aliens but you still need it. Unlike 1.04, you can’t **** around when there is no teamwork and have any fun, its just frustrating, causing people to leave the game and sometimes never come back. In 1.04, there were JPs which were a major fun factor in public mode. Sure, they were unbalanced majorly in wide open maps (fun maps?) and vent infested maps (nancy?) but now, they're just USELESS with public teams who have no idea how to use it
also, in 1.04 you could say, guard a res point and try to see how many skulks you could down before you die (note: not rambo'ing) or just try out your silent/not silent bhop skills
Now, all the unbalancing factors could have been ironed out i.e. JP nerfing (not to the extreme of 2.0), removing the ‘hit back’ that skulks had on bunny hopping marines (extreme push pack) and others which I can’t really think of atm.
My hope is that NS:C / 2.1 will relieve the public issues that NS currently has and make games more enjoyable
I think I remember an Australian vet (Hybrid-UNKNOWN) said that they should’ve just made 2.0 like 1.04, but just removing the serious issues (overpowered JPs) and I agree with him.
If you disagree with anything I’ve said, give a reason for it, don’t just say ‘NO MAN YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG’<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't talking about clan wars specifically. IMO the clan scene is very balanced atm (just a few minor disrepencies that should hopefully be fixed when 2.1 comes out).
I was trying to address why people are finding public games so frustrating. Obviously I didn't do too good a job of it. I realise why public play is so important, it's the groundwork from which clans spring from, and yes without it NS will die. I saw many posts regarding people's discontent with the way many public games were played, and these people were blaming it on the game itself, which is in my opinion incorrect. Yes a lot of teamwork is required, but if you don't realise this by now then you shouldn't be playing NS in the first place. If you don't like teamwork, NS is not for you - it's as simple as that. From what I can tell, the devs don't have any plans on changing this, and personally I don't want them to.
I know how hard it is to get some random pubbers to work as a team, but it CAN BE DONE. I think one of the main sources of frustration in public games, is trying to win a game as marines. When it can be pulled off successfully, it really is so bloody satisfying. However, to reach this stage a few essential ingredients are needed:
1. A commander with a mic and half a clue. 2. A field sergeant or two who can rally his fellow marines around him, and lead them effectively into hostile territory. 3. Marines that LISTEN. If you don't listen to whats going on around you (for example, PHASE NOW NOW NOW STOP HUMPING THAT F**KING ARMOURY FFS) you deserve to die, be devoured 30 times and lose. LISTEN to what your commander/field sergeant/vet/regular is telling you. Don't try and play the game like CS/DOD where you are the most important person (in your own eyes). It's not in the same league as these games. So don't. 4. If you don't know what to do, ASK. If you're in a server full of randoms then this isn't going to get you anywhere, but don't be afraid to ask regardless. Please. Usually you'll have at least one decent soul around who's only too happy to help. Did you get flamed? Either ignore them, or simply say 'Thanks for helping me learn how to play, I really appreciate the assistance you've provided. You're helping me become a much better player with your abuse - cheers' (maybe something a little less long winded, but you get the drift).
I would much rather a newish player ask me 'what does this do?' 'where should I go?' than run around aimlessly, wasting time and acheiving nothing. If newer players are up front about their newbishness and aren't afraid to ask questions, they'll have a much easier time of it than if they silently run around doing their own thing while the team screams at them to OMG PHASE NOW!11@
Now, to a lesser extent, the aliens need a similar mindset. Sometimes, you have to be prepared to delay your favourite evolution (onos/fade/lerk) by dropping a res tower/chamber at the start of the round. Don't hoard your res. It helps no one and pisses off the rest of your team. If you're unsure of what to drop, ask. 'DC or MC?' 'Do you guys want me to save for a hive?'
Or, if you have sufficient gorges already, why not ask the team if they mind if you go fade/onos? A lot of the time, as long as you don't have a rep for res whoring then dying 1 minute later, they'll more than likely say 'Yeah mate no worries, just don't die ok?'. If you don't ask, be prepared to be labelled a res ****. It's as simple as that.
These are a few of the basic elements that are needed for public play. I have the feeling some of you will say 'Too much! I just wanna jump in and have some fun!'. I don't have an answer for that. Both sides are designed to rely on varying amounts of teamwork to win. Some of the very basics of this teamwork are listed above. I think if the above tips require too much effort for you to enjoy yourself, then perhaps NS isn't the game for you. I advise waiting for NS:Combat (Which I honestly believe will improve overall teamwork on a tactical scale in vanilla NS)
Now, onto the 1.04 vs 2.xx discussion.
Forget CS and DOD, they have no place in a discussion such as this. Once you remove the obvious similarity of shooting guns from an FPS perspective, NS is nothing like them. Yes they're easier to get into, the learning curve is nowhere near as steep, and you can rambo effectively. But does this make them more fun than NS?
Hell no.
In 1.04, owning multiple skulks as an LA/LMG marine may have been fun for you, but what about the poor bloody skulks? Do you think THEY were happy with being pwned repeatedly by the same marine? As if they weren't getting frustrated. Of course they were. You have to look at it from both perspectives.
In every argument I've seen that praises 1.04, the person's opinion is based around why it was so fun for marines.
WE KNOW THIS.
1.04 WAS fun for marines. No one disputes this. However, it was to the detriment of the overall game.
Marines ruled 1.04. It was a no brainer, unless they decided <b>not</b> to use cheese tactics like jp/hmg and two hive lockdowns. Then, perhaps, you'd get a fairly decent game. <b>Sometimes.</b> Usually, once the aliens got the 2nd hive, it was gg. Does anyone remember how many people simply stopped playing 1.04 because it was the same thing over and over again? Most battles were centered around well known choke points in every map. There was hardly any variation in strategy. To put it simply, it was boring.
2.01 breathes new live into NS, soon to be given another kickstart by 2.1. The room for increased tactics and strategies has increased tenfold, it's up to the players to put this to good use. The game isn't going to do it for them. Where would be the fun in that? In regards to comebacks, I have seen so many in 2.01 its just not funny .. I seem to be one of the very few to experience this though. Many pubs have been nailbiters, with marines taking down one hive just as aliens get another 2nd hive up while marine spawn and marine-held double res both come under attack, marines scrambling frantically to save their bases (which is more important? MS or double res?? YOU BETTER BLOODY DECIDE QUICK!) while aliens scure more nodes in the meantime..
In my experience, you get out of NS what you put in.
I think I've rambled on long enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree 100%
A damn fool: Why are you so easily inflamed? I wasn't attacking anybody in my posts. I am not forcing anybody to stop playing the game. I was simply suggesting that if you dont like teamwork, perhaps NS isn't the game to you. Why do you feel the need to reply in an inflammatory and irritable way? If you cannot reply constructively then don't bother.
It seems as though all you can do is speak some incoherant babble about why anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Please give me a constructive argument, or I won't bother trying to discuss this with you. Seeing as though you seem to enjoy caps, here's some for you. I'm not TELLING people how to play, I'm giving them BASIC HINTS AND TIPS on how to MAYBE GET SOME TEAMWORK GOING, in order to get some DECENT PUBLIC GAMES HAPPENING.
I enjoyed playing 1.04 as ALIENS. I rarely went marine, pretty much only when I couldn't go alien and I didn't feel like waiting in the ready room. I didn't see jp rushes, but I did see 2-hive lockdowns often enough. I also saw them taken down often enough. Permagorging was fun. It could be frustrating as a skulk sometimes, but it was fun being a fade, or even a lerk providing umbra for the fade.
With marines,its usually 1 vs 5-9 rts for like 10 minutes,with aliens constantly attacking base and then retreating to let marines respawn for more frags,and depending on a few variables,maybe they will have upgrades,a hmg or 2....but its utterly pointless to rush out of fade to try and kill fades/onos with LMG and die repeatedly.Its just not fun to not accomplish anything except dying for 10-15 minutes.Even longer since sometimes aliens are sadistic **** who want more frags.
With aliens its usually rushing marines and dying to aimbot-like marines,but at LEAST most of the time,aliens have 2-3 rts,usually 1-2 savers but marines own the rest of the map and fades?Shotguns with lots of upgrades and aimbot-like marines.Same with onos,IF you can get onos with 2-3 rts,except you use HMG.In any event,marines always have the res for ha/jp 3/3....to counter mostly skulks and the lone onos.No contest.Marines usually end teh game faster,since they cant relaly rush into the hive,kill skulks,rush out and wait for them to respawn.
Ape....I happen to agree with you on what you said, no matter what Fool (it's his name!) says. 1.04 DID lack a certian degree of change, which 2.01 (and hopefully 2.1) has. And in 1.04 marines DID rule, although the new GL pwns <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I love that thing. It is unfortunate we are unable to match the game play quite right so that the aliens and marines have an equal footing, no matter team size (Which is impossible, or nearly so, with the game set up as it is, which is why NS is so awesome). In any case, go Flayra and Devs, do your best.....and can I have beta?!?!?!?!?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also have to re-emphasize what you mentioned regarding comebacks. This was one of my favorite parts of 1.04.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone else was saying were talking about the pub's not clan servers. I constantly see comebacks in pubs, one team will be sealing off res like nuts just to have the entire other team waltze into thier base and kill the hive/ip's, due to lack of skill and people not listening to the quite calls of "GET BACK TO BASE!!!!!"
I could see quick res rush being the deciding factor in every clan game, but in the pubs you never know what is gonna happen. How many times I have been playing as marine and could have sworn we would win (we have one hive and in excess of 5 rt's) when all of a sudden my whole team is dead cause a couple skulks killed the IP's, and were just being picked off one by one from then on.
Comments
And pubbers can't handle this.
Oh well, if you can't aim or skulk properly, it's not the dev's fault.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we had fun! because we would get games where you had one man bravely stalk into enemy territory and maybe pull a win off or the lone skulk taking out the entire marine force (note that still happens marines still suck) But I said I liked skulks vs marines with a few of the rarer upgrades popping up a bit. Sure Maybe you have a fantasy about teched up marines vs the higher life forms but in reality where the pubs are concerned is that If one side is teched up the other side sure as hell isn't because once your side starts losing you keep losing I liked 1.04 because it was skulks vs marines so if you joined the losing side you could still pull it off but its no longer like that usually its either a bunch of LMG's vs ONOS or HA+HMG vs Skulks so don't tell me ooh he doesn't like using the big guns and fighter bigger aliens I'd love to try and do a game where we had HA and they had ONOS but it rarely happens anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me, but are you on crack? I thought you might have been, considering the lack of cohension of your sentences, and the fact that you said once one side in 2.0 is teched up the other side will never win.
Good one. In 1.04, once a side was teched up, they could <b>never</b> lose. I've seen tons of comebacks in 2.01, but not one in 1.04. And trust me, I've played a lot of games.
1.04 sucked, 2.01 is so much better.
As for the orginal poster of this thread:
Yes, 2.0 has changed. However, you should find it's a whole lot better. Keep at it, and play on good servers.
Yes, you do need more skill. But a public game doesn't always have a full team of vets everytime does it? You see 56kers, newbies, and the occasional ignorant noob who have minimal skill/knowledge of the game. You don't have players on your team everytime who know exactly how to pull off a JP + Shotgun rush or a well coordinated skulk rush on marine spawn. The range of skill in public games is very large, you can't expect a bunch of random people to play like sYn or whatever clan is the best over there
Good one. In 1.04, once a side was teched up, they could never lose. I've seen tons of comebacks in 2.01, but not one in 1.04. And trust me, I've played a lot of games.
1.04 sucked, 2.01 is so much better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's your opinion, other people might think otherwise. For some people the *FUN* factor of playing 2.0 is about half as good as 1.04 (I remember those *friendly* games where you would phase spam / gorge donce or something).
My one experiance of a comeback was on ns_bast. The aliens had 2 hives (fade was iminent), i JP'ed to outside refinery hive (near the pool) and secretely built 4 siege cannons not fully, so they all shot at once. When they were all built the hive was down in less then 20 seconds and meanwhile the rest of the marine team had JPed/HMGed engine hive, the aliens never saw it coming. The beeping coming out of nowhere and they all drop dead <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
IMO i liked 1.04 pubs better then 2.01 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are saying, because there were more nubs that you could gorge dance with or singly take down a hive with, 1.04 was a better game?
Get real.
You can do your little gorge dance in 2.01 or take down a hive single handedly, providing the other team sucks enough.
"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]
My god, it definatly seems you shouldn't be playing games in the first place. If you wanna just goof off, go download a MMORPG, something I'm sure you would enjoy a lot more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My god, it definatly seems you shouldn't be playing games in the first place. If you wanna just goof off, go download a MMORPG, something I'm sure you would enjoy a lot more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol? i play pub games for fun because i play serious in wars idiot, the point of a pub is not to get all tight and say "OMG WE ARE LOSING IM GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE", theyre meant for relaxation & fun. but 2.0 doesn't bring this at all. unless your in a clan stacked server of course.
i have been playing NS competitively since january, i dont see why i should stress over a pub game
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you are saying, because there were more nubs that you could gorge dance with or singly take down a hive with, 1.04 was a better game?
Get real.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you dont even read do you? gw
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol yea, gave me a laugh. hey click <a href='http://www.users.on.net/ong67/fag1.wav' target='_blank'>here</a>
i dont give a **** what you think about me, ive been playing competetive gaming for 2 years. i dont trust you to believe me
i have been playing NS competitively since january, i dont see why i should stress over a pub game <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
2.0 is fun, when you are working to play the game. It's a little stressful on pub games, but not too much. It's only stressful when others don't play the game.
However, I agree, it's not quite as good for doing the gorge/skulk dance with my internet friends.
I'm sorry if this detracts from your fun of 2.xx, perhaps you should look for a game that's more suited for goofing off.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i dont give a **** what you think about me, ive been playing competetive gaming for 2 years. i dont trust you to believe me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ooooOOOoooo You play competetive, do yah tough guy? /me is scared
Hopefully this does't come across as harsh, but I'm not trying to flame you, but most of your points are rediculous.
I'm sorry if this detracts from your fun of 2.xx, perhaps you should look for a game that's more suited for goofing off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, are you only capable of stretching an already **** joke even more?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ooooOOOoooo You play competetive, do yah tough guy? /me is scared
Hopefully this does't come across as harsh, but I'm not trying to flame you, but most of your points are rediculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, but instead of making sarcastic posts like <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"OMG I like 1.04 because I could have my [insert high pitched girl voice]friendly games that me and my online friends could have! Why can't we just all get along with the marines and parrrteh like it's 1999![/insert high pitched girl voice]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe you could point out my flaws and actualy discuss it?
i did a terrible job at expressing my points
You say it was, but never why.
On top of that, the only examples used to support your cause was a gorge dance or slaughtering stupid aliens.
k... Wanna go for a half-decent argument now?
my bad, personal experiances make **** cases <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You never say why 1.04 was better than 2.01 pubs.
You say it was, but never why.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
look at the first page (2nd rather if you have 15 post pages
Anyway, to the original poster (and anyone else who dislikes this version):
2.xx is completely different than 1.xx, but yet it is still the same game. The guns are the same, the equiptment is the same, the upgrades are the same (marines), the aliens are the same (aside from a few different abilities and thier new placement hive wise), the chambers are the same (but they all actually help you some way instead of just the defense chamber) just the timeframes for things showing up is alot faster for both sides.
The game is now more about resources, as someone has already stated. The more resources you control, the more likely you will win, or at the very least put up a hell of a fight. Yes the game is about teamwork, its the very root that the game was created on. It does require a large learning curve, so give the newer people a break and help them along if you seem to know more than them. My opinion on what you should do, try different servers if the ones you are playing on seem "noobish" for lack of a better term. Also, try different times of the day if possible. Alot of the "better" players for that server may join later/earlier than you are playing, and you may get the game you are looking for around those times.
Now, for everyone else who thinks that 1.xx is better than 2.xx:
I used to think the same thing when i started playing 2.xx, but after playing it, my opinion changed. The thing that swayed me (well the major turning point anyway) is the fact that a 2 hive lock down means almost diddly now. In 1.xx you could lock down 2 hives as marines, soak up res just off of 3 rts, and take the next 40 hours to tech up and end the game when you wanted. Meanwhile the aliens who have 192843874 rts run around as skulks, lerks or building WoL as gorges everywhere because thats all they could do while waiting for the other team to finally get sick of the map and want to end it.
How does this situation end out now? Marines lock down 2 hives, and soak off of 3 rts while the aliens have the remaining rts (somewhere in the 5-8 range). The 3 rts the marines have have paid for the lock downs and some upgrades. Meanwhile, the aliens now have a chance to use the bigger evolutions they couldn't in 1.xx to get those hives back, the 20 turret farm strategy from 1.xx only lasts so long now against a onos or 4, and the marines find themselves actually haveing to try to win the game.
The 1.xx battle for the 2nd hive is still here in 2.xx, but its not just the vanilla marines vs skulks anymore, it's the lvl'd up marines vs skulks/lerks/fades which IMO is a much more intense battle.
Damn... I wrote a novel.
You mean the "requires more teamwork" part?
That is, with equally skilled teams offcourse.
Maybe balancing the jp would have been enough to fix 1.04. I really did like having a permagorge. I do like 2.xx, and I realize that it is a different game. I just think it would be cool to go back to 1.04 sometimes.
What pubs have you been playing on <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->? Most games seem to be HA against lots and lots of higher evolutions. In 1.04 I was skulk or gorge most of the time, now it seems I'm just fade 95% of the game and a little gorging here and there. It's almost not even fun being a fade or onos now, they are just to common, even when you are losing.
What pubs have you been playing on <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->? Most games seem to be HA against lots and lots of higher evolutions. In 1.04 I was skulk or gorge most of the time, now it seems I'm just fade 95% of the game and a little gorging here and there. It's almost not even fun being a fade or onos now, they are just to common, even when you are losing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
too true, in 1.04 the Onos was rarely seen
so when you actualy did see it you were like 'woah! what a tank! i wanna be that'
in 2.01 theyre so common theyre just not as good anymore :X
It seems that a lot of people don't see anymore the benefits of thinking strategically, and are simply working to save up resource to achieve higher lifeforms and kill everyone they can, and maybe hope that we can swamp the marines and run them out of res. I would love to see more of a strategic aspect of the game make a comeback, and the tactical side decrease a bit more. There are always going to be people who come to NS who are *not* crack shooters or super faders or have excellent skulking skills - but there should be an aspect of the game for them as well. It would be nice to find new ways and have new options for supporting your team, rather than just new types of rushes that can be used.
You mean the "requires more teamwork" part? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah... 1.04 took more teamwork than 2.0... keep telling yourself that. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial.
2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate.
3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games).
4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone.
5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday.
6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4.
7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04.
As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2.
1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial.
2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate.
3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games).
4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone.
5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday.
6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4.
7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04.
As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.) True
2.) Disputable
3.) False, there were only a couple of abusive strats which owned
4.) False, 2.xx is more popular than 1.04
5.) Disputable
6.) False, games of 1.04 lasted on hours, 2.01 hardly lasts more than 20 min, people f4 because they are impatient
7.) No, it's just that in 1.04 everyone got really used to losing on aliens side and winning on marines side. In 2.01, either side can win, leading to frustations... I hardly see this as a bad thing.
1) There was never this large and repeated an undercurrent of dismay/disappointment with any version change as with 2.x. If you don't see it, you're in denial.
2) 1.04 was more fun. Said another way, it was more addicting. Thus my definition of "fun' goes beyond wins/balance, but to counting instances one smiles/laughs about and remembers. Search on my name for specific examples; no need to regurgitate.
3) 1.04 had more quick turnarounds and comebacks than 2.x. If you disagree, my opinion is you lack a breadth of experience (mind you, this has nothing to do with skill) with this game (e.g. different versions, different servers, iterations of games).
4) 1.04 attracted and kept more players than 2.x. When trying to find a game at random times during the day now, there are fewer choices. If you were a regular on a server in 1.04, I would bet $ that a significant portion of those other regulars are gone.
5) 2.x is more balanced. However, I would trade it for the fun of 1.04 anyday.
6) 2.x is slower in so many ways. Look no further than the increase in tendency to F4.
7) 2.x subjects players to much more feelings of aggravation than 1.04.
As a reminder, the keywords here are "publics," "opinions," and "fun", not "clans" and "balance." On the latter two, see if anyone gets this insinuation: Tribes2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have ironically pretty much summed up everything that I have experienced over the past 10-11 months.
I also have to re-emphasize what you mentioned regarding comebacks. This was one of my favorite parts of 1.04. When you had 2 teams of evenly stacked regulars, you knew you were in for a good game. Things could be going so grim for one team and dramatically change a few minutes later with some skillful teamwork from 3 or 4 players, regardless of their class. 1.04 allowed for more flexibility of the classes, enabling LA JPers to take down hives and small groups of skulks to take down TFs and Phase gates in certain turret farmed areas.
Most of the time games of 2.0x are decided within the first few minutes, and the remainder of the gameplay just becomes a formality. There are no real "close calls," and games just don't get anymore predictable in pubs.
This is where I think NS is flawed, it requires TOO much teamwork in public mode (meaning random people vs. random people and half of those wouldn’t have a clue on how to play like they're in a war) and as you said, is rather frustrating and annoying because there is none
Let’s just look at some other games that are quite successful
CS: ultimate pub, you can do whatever the hell you want without having a frustrating game (unless you have hackerphobia) and doesn't require an ounce of teamwork, yet it is the most ONLINE played game in the world
DoD: this requires more teamwork then CS, but still you can go around capping flags, fast respawn meaning more constant games (10 second respawn). But still you can have a good time in pub mode without requiring too much teamwork
Then you get NS, which at its current state (2.01) requires a load of teamwork for marines, less for aliens but you still need it. Unlike 1.04, you can’t **** around when there is no teamwork and have any fun, its just frustrating, causing people to leave the game and sometimes never come back. In 1.04, there were JPs which were a major fun factor in public mode. Sure, they were unbalanced majorly in wide open maps (fun maps?) and vent infested maps (nancy?) but now, they're just USELESS with public teams who have no idea how to use it
also, in 1.04 you could say, guard a res point and try to see how many skulks you could down before you die (note: not rambo'ing) or just try out your silent/not silent bhop skills
Now, all the unbalancing factors could have been ironed out
i.e. JP nerfing (not to the extreme of 2.0), removing the ‘hit back’ that skulks had on bunny hopping marines (extreme push pack) and others which I can’t really think of atm.
My hope is that NS:C / 2.1 will relieve the public issues that NS currently has and make games more enjoyable
I think I remember an Australian vet (Hybrid-UNKNOWN) said that they should’ve just made 2.0 like 1.04, but just removing the serious issues (overpowered JPs) and I agree with him.
If you disagree with anything I’ve said, give a reason for it, don’t just say ‘NO MAN YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG’<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't talking about clan wars specifically. IMO the clan scene is very balanced atm (just a few minor disrepencies that should hopefully be fixed when 2.1 comes out).
I was trying to address why people are finding public games so frustrating. Obviously I didn't do too good a job of it. I realise why public play is so important, it's the groundwork from which clans spring from, and yes without it NS will die. I saw many posts regarding people's discontent with the way many public games were played, and these people were blaming it on the game itself, which is in my opinion incorrect. Yes a lot of teamwork is required, but if you don't realise this by now then you shouldn't be playing NS in the first place. If you don't like teamwork, NS is not for you - it's as simple as that. From what I can tell, the devs don't have any plans on changing this, and personally I don't want them to.
I know how hard it is to get some random pubbers to work as a team, but it CAN BE DONE. I think one of the main sources of frustration in public games, is trying to win a game as marines. When it can be pulled off successfully, it really is so bloody satisfying. However, to reach this stage a few essential ingredients are needed:
1. A commander with a mic and half a clue.
2. A field sergeant or two who can rally his fellow marines around him, and lead them effectively into hostile territory.
3. Marines that LISTEN. If you don't listen to whats going on around you (for example, PHASE NOW NOW NOW STOP HUMPING THAT F**KING ARMOURY FFS) you deserve to die, be devoured 30 times and lose. LISTEN to what your commander/field sergeant/vet/regular is telling you. Don't try and play the game like CS/DOD where you are the most important person (in your own eyes). It's not in the same league as these games. So don't.
4. If you don't know what to do, ASK. If you're in a server full of randoms then this isn't going to get you anywhere, but don't be afraid to ask regardless. Please. Usually you'll have at least one decent soul around who's only too happy to help. Did you get flamed? Either ignore them, or simply say 'Thanks for helping me learn how to play, I really appreciate the assistance you've provided. You're helping me become a much better player with your abuse - cheers' (maybe something a little less long winded, but you get the drift).
I would much rather a newish player ask me 'what does this do?' 'where should I go?' than run around aimlessly, wasting time and acheiving nothing. If newer players are up front about their newbishness and aren't afraid to ask questions, they'll have a much easier time of it than if they silently run around doing their own thing while the team screams at them to OMG PHASE NOW!11@
Now, to a lesser extent, the aliens need a similar mindset. Sometimes, you have to be prepared to delay your favourite evolution (onos/fade/lerk) by dropping a res tower/chamber at the start of the round. Don't hoard your res. It helps no one and pisses off the rest of your team. If you're unsure of what to drop, ask. 'DC or MC?' 'Do you guys want me to save for a hive?'
Or, if you have sufficient gorges already, why not ask the team if they mind if you go fade/onos? A lot of the time, as long as you don't have a rep for res whoring then dying 1 minute later, they'll more than likely say 'Yeah mate no worries, just don't die ok?'. If you don't ask, be prepared to be labelled a res ****. It's as simple as that.
These are a few of the basic elements that are needed for public play. I have the feeling some of you will say 'Too much! I just wanna jump in and have some fun!'. I don't have an answer for that. Both sides are designed to rely on varying amounts of teamwork to win. Some of the very basics of this teamwork are listed above. I think if the above tips require too much effort for you to enjoy yourself, then perhaps NS isn't the game for you. I advise waiting for NS:Combat (Which I honestly believe will improve overall teamwork on a tactical scale in vanilla NS)
Now, onto the 1.04 vs 2.xx discussion.
Forget CS and DOD, they have no place in a discussion such as this. Once you remove the obvious similarity of shooting guns from an FPS perspective, NS is nothing like them. Yes they're easier to get into, the learning curve is nowhere near as steep, and you can rambo effectively. But does this make them more fun than NS?
Hell no.
In 1.04, owning multiple skulks as an LA/LMG marine may have been fun for you, but what about the poor bloody skulks? Do you think THEY were happy with being pwned repeatedly by the same marine? As if they weren't getting frustrated. Of course they were. You have to look at it from both perspectives.
In every argument I've seen that praises 1.04, the person's opinion is based around why it was so fun for marines.
WE KNOW THIS.
1.04 WAS fun for marines. No one disputes this. However, it was to the detriment of the overall game.
Marines ruled 1.04. It was a no brainer, unless they decided <b>not</b> to use cheese tactics like jp/hmg and two hive lockdowns. Then, perhaps, you'd get a fairly decent game. <b>Sometimes.</b> Usually, once the aliens got the 2nd hive, it was gg. Does anyone remember how many people simply stopped playing 1.04 because it was the same thing over and over again? Most battles were centered around well known choke points in every map. There was hardly any variation in strategy. To put it simply, it was boring.
2.01 breathes new live into NS, soon to be given another kickstart by 2.1. The room for increased tactics and strategies has increased tenfold, it's up to the players to put this to good use. The game isn't going to do it for them. Where would be the fun in that? In regards to comebacks, I have seen so many in 2.01 its just not funny .. I seem to be one of the very few to experience this though. Many pubs have been nailbiters, with marines taking down one hive just as aliens get another 2nd hive up while marine spawn and marine-held double res both come under attack, marines scrambling frantically to save their bases (which is more important? MS or double res?? YOU BETTER BLOODY DECIDE QUICK!) while aliens scure more nodes in the meantime..
In my experience, you get out of NS what you put in.
I think I've rambled on long enough.
I've never seen me quoted more then this but its mostly hate quoting so **** you 2 people <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> but it's true deal with it. You say NS 2.0 is more popular un uh it got more support and advertising then 1.04 ever did the second it came out it was advertised all over game spy this leading to a massive influence of people someone quoted 22000 and then down to 14000 thats basically 8000 players not liking a game a FREE game for a mod thats horrible. I've played enough pubs to know that its not HA vs Fades and Onos don't **** which is what it is. I could join a game now any freaking pub right now and BAM one side would be losing and with no hope of a comeback and just being pushed back slowly while the other side is more then likely Stacked with clanners (I don't like clanners deal with it) and in NS the ability to dominate is sickening the reason other games are doing better is because theres not such a dominance factor there is always HOPE!!! hence fun, excitement, and a real sense of purpose you wanna know why people don't go for the capturing res nodes anymore? Its getting boring doing something that you've done before and more then likely is pointless.
I'm throwing my full support and hope's of a revival of NS fun factor in NS:Combat because it looks to be what was addicting about 1.04 (Yeah I'm a little biased because I loved playing it and in that time I had 1 jp rush thats right and it was when 5 clanners joined and took comm) you all tell me That its stupid and I'm wrong and 2.0 is SOOOO much more balanced and you seem almost afraid that a skilled player could bypass the RTS element and win the game himself if such an element existed in NS it would still be addictive but its lost that. Oh and Chowder damn fine comments don't let these buggers whine and try and shoot down each one of your list statements because like them or not none of them are false.
This is where I think NS is flawed, it requires TOO much teamwork in public mode (meaning random people vs. random people and half of those wouldn’t have a clue on how to play like they're in a war) and as you said, is rather frustrating and annoying because there is none
Let’s just look at some other games that are quite successful
CS: ultimate pub, you can do whatever the hell you want without having a frustrating game (unless you have hackerphobia) and doesn't require an ounce of teamwork, yet it is the most ONLINE played game in the world
DoD: this requires more teamwork then CS, but still you can go around capping flags, fast respawn meaning more constant games (10 second respawn). But still you can have a good time in pub mode without requiring too much teamwork
Then you get NS, which at its current state (2.01) requires a load of teamwork for marines, less for aliens but you still need it. Unlike 1.04, you can’t **** around when there is no teamwork and have any fun, its just frustrating, causing people to leave the game and sometimes never come back. In 1.04, there were JPs which were a major fun factor in public mode. Sure, they were unbalanced majorly in wide open maps (fun maps?) and vent infested maps (nancy?) but now, they're just USELESS with public teams who have no idea how to use it
also, in 1.04 you could say, guard a res point and try to see how many skulks you could down before you die (note: not rambo'ing) or just try out your silent/not silent bhop skills
Now, all the unbalancing factors could have been ironed out
i.e. JP nerfing (not to the extreme of 2.0), removing the ‘hit back’ that skulks had on bunny hopping marines (extreme push pack) and others which I can’t really think of atm.
My hope is that NS:C / 2.1 will relieve the public issues that NS currently has and make games more enjoyable
I think I remember an Australian vet (Hybrid-UNKNOWN) said that they should’ve just made 2.0 like 1.04, but just removing the serious issues (overpowered JPs) and I agree with him.
If you disagree with anything I’ve said, give a reason for it, don’t just say ‘NO MAN YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG’<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't talking about clan wars specifically. IMO the clan scene is very balanced atm (just a few minor disrepencies that should hopefully be fixed when 2.1 comes out).
I was trying to address why people are finding public games so frustrating. Obviously I didn't do too good a job of it. I realise why public play is so important, it's the groundwork from which clans spring from, and yes without it NS will die. I saw many posts regarding people's discontent with the way many public games were played, and these people were blaming it on the game itself, which is in my opinion incorrect. Yes a lot of teamwork is required, but if you don't realise this by now then you shouldn't be playing NS in the first place. If you don't like teamwork, NS is not for you - it's as simple as that. From what I can tell, the devs don't have any plans on changing this, and personally I don't want them to.
I know how hard it is to get some random pubbers to work as a team, but it CAN BE DONE. I think one of the main sources of frustration in public games, is trying to win a game as marines. When it can be pulled off successfully, it really is so bloody satisfying. However, to reach this stage a few essential ingredients are needed:
1. A commander with a mic and half a clue.
2. A field sergeant or two who can rally his fellow marines around him, and lead them effectively into hostile territory.
3. Marines that LISTEN. If you don't listen to whats going on around you (for example, PHASE NOW NOW NOW STOP HUMPING THAT F**KING ARMOURY FFS) you deserve to die, be devoured 30 times and lose. LISTEN to what your commander/field sergeant/vet/regular is telling you. Don't try and play the game like CS/DOD where you are the most important person (in your own eyes). It's not in the same league as these games. So don't.
4. If you don't know what to do, ASK. If you're in a server full of randoms then this isn't going to get you anywhere, but don't be afraid to ask regardless. Please. Usually you'll have at least one decent soul around who's only too happy to help. Did you get flamed? Either ignore them, or simply say 'Thanks for helping me learn how to play, I really appreciate the assistance you've provided. You're helping me become a much better player with your abuse - cheers' (maybe something a little less long winded, but you get the drift).
I would much rather a newish player ask me 'what does this do?' 'where should I go?' than run around aimlessly, wasting time and acheiving nothing. If newer players are up front about their newbishness and aren't afraid to ask questions, they'll have a much easier time of it than if they silently run around doing their own thing while the team screams at them to OMG PHASE NOW!11@
Now, to a lesser extent, the aliens need a similar mindset. Sometimes, you have to be prepared to delay your favourite evolution (onos/fade/lerk) by dropping a res tower/chamber at the start of the round. Don't hoard your res. It helps no one and pisses off the rest of your team. If you're unsure of what to drop, ask. 'DC or MC?' 'Do you guys want me to save for a hive?'
Or, if you have sufficient gorges already, why not ask the team if they mind if you go fade/onos? A lot of the time, as long as you don't have a rep for res whoring then dying 1 minute later, they'll more than likely say 'Yeah mate no worries, just don't die ok?'. If you don't ask, be prepared to be labelled a res ****. It's as simple as that.
These are a few of the basic elements that are needed for public play. I have the feeling some of you will say 'Too much! I just wanna jump in and have some fun!'. I don't have an answer for that. Both sides are designed to rely on varying amounts of teamwork to win. Some of the very basics of this teamwork are listed above. I think if the above tips require too much effort for you to enjoy yourself, then perhaps NS isn't the game for you. I advise waiting for NS:Combat (Which I honestly believe will improve overall teamwork on a tactical scale in vanilla NS)
Now, onto the 1.04 vs 2.xx discussion.
Forget CS and DOD, they have no place in a discussion such as this. Once you remove the obvious similarity of shooting guns from an FPS perspective, NS is nothing like them. Yes they're easier to get into, the learning curve is nowhere near as steep, and you can rambo effectively. But does this make them more fun than NS?
Hell no.
In 1.04, owning multiple skulks as an LA/LMG marine may have been fun for you, but what about the poor bloody skulks? Do you think THEY were happy with being pwned repeatedly by the same marine? As if they weren't getting frustrated. Of course they were. You have to look at it from both perspectives.
In every argument I've seen that praises 1.04, the person's opinion is based around why it was so fun for marines.
WE KNOW THIS.
1.04 WAS fun for marines. No one disputes this. However, it was to the detriment of the overall game.
Marines ruled 1.04. It was a no brainer, unless they decided <b>not</b> to use cheese tactics like jp/hmg and two hive lockdowns. Then, perhaps, you'd get a fairly decent game. <b>Sometimes.</b> Usually, once the aliens got the 2nd hive, it was gg. Does anyone remember how many people simply stopped playing 1.04 because it was the same thing over and over again? Most battles were centered around well known choke points in every map. There was hardly any variation in strategy. To put it simply, it was boring.
2.01 breathes new live into NS, soon to be given another kickstart by 2.1. The room for increased tactics and strategies has increased tenfold, it's up to the players to put this to good use. The game isn't going to do it for them. Where would be the fun in that? In regards to comebacks, I have seen so many in 2.01 its just not funny .. I seem to be one of the very few to experience this though. Many pubs have been nailbiters, with marines taking down one hive just as aliens get another 2nd hive up while marine spawn and marine-held double res both come under attack, marines scrambling frantically to save their bases (which is more important? MS or double res?? YOU BETTER BLOODY DECIDE QUICK!) while aliens scure more nodes in the meantime..
In my experience, you get out of NS what you put in.
I think I've rambled on long enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree 100%
It seems as though all you can do is speak some incoherant babble about why anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Please give me a constructive argument, or I won't bother trying to discuss this with you. Seeing as though you seem to enjoy caps, here's some for you. I'm not TELLING people how to play, I'm giving them BASIC HINTS AND TIPS on how to MAYBE GET SOME TEAMWORK GOING, in order to get some DECENT PUBLIC GAMES HAPPENING.
Does that make sense lad?
Losing rarely is fun anymore.
With marines,its usually 1 vs 5-9 rts for like 10 minutes,with aliens constantly attacking base and then retreating to let marines respawn for more frags,and depending on a few variables,maybe they will have upgrades,a hmg or 2....but its utterly pointless to rush out of fade to try and kill fades/onos with LMG and die repeatedly.Its just not fun to not accomplish anything except dying for 10-15 minutes.Even longer since sometimes aliens are sadistic **** who want more frags.
With aliens its usually rushing marines and dying to aimbot-like marines,but at LEAST most of the time,aliens have 2-3 rts,usually 1-2 savers but marines own the rest of the map and fades?Shotguns with lots of upgrades and aimbot-like marines.Same with onos,IF you can get onos with 2-3 rts,except you use HMG.In any event,marines always have the res for ha/jp 3/3....to counter mostly skulks and the lone onos.No contest.Marines usually end teh game faster,since they cant relaly rush into the hive,kill skulks,rush out and wait for them to respawn.
Someone else was saying were talking about the pub's not clan servers. I constantly see comebacks in pubs, one team will be sealing off res like nuts just to have the entire other team waltze into thier base and kill the hive/ip's, due to lack of skill and people not listening to the quite calls of "GET BACK TO BASE!!!!!"
I could see quick res rush being the deciding factor in every clan game, but in the pubs you never know what is gonna happen. How many times I have been playing as marine and could have sworn we would win (we have one hive and in excess of 5 rt's) when all of a sudden my whole team is dead cause a couple skulks killed the IP's, and were just being picked off one by one from then on.