Immortality
Trevelyan
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Discuss</div> Immortality has been dreamt about for centuries, However, we are at a point in our existance where we may eventually be able to bring it about within our life time (imagine our technology in 20 years).
A possibility? Maybe the creation of highly advanced robotics will allow us to plug our brain out of our weak, old bodies and throw it in a machine. But thats just my opinion.
A possibility? Maybe the creation of highly advanced robotics will allow us to plug our brain out of our weak, old bodies and throw it in a machine. But thats just my opinion.
Comments
At first, it will depend on how accesible it would be. If it was only accesible to the rich and powerful, I'm sure a lot of people would rebel against it. If it was accesible to everyone, the population will increase at an incredibly alarming rate, soon enough not having enough resources to keep everyone in good shape.
How would you determine the worlds greatest minds"?
No, seriously, I'd say the people who come up with the immortality treatment should get first crack at it. And then get to work coming up with other good things.
Then think of it from your point of view. With immortality, there is no escape. Ever. If, by some freak accident, you got sucked out of an airlock in space, you'd just float forever with only your own mind for company.
What if you got bored? There's only so much a person can learn, and there can only be so much <b>to</b> learn. It doesn't bare thinking about with our puny lifespans, but eventually, we'd know everything there is to know. Where would be the joy of life? The new experiences?
Most of us on here play a lot of games, so i'll use that as an example: How many games have you played so much, that you've done everything there is to be done, and just got bored with it? In what, about 3 years max? Now, although life is a lot more complex, imagine if you lived till the year 5000. What would you do? Chances are you've done everything by then.
Immortality just shouldn't be attempted by anyone, because if they succeed, we're doomed.
I wouldn't wish Immortality on anyone.
But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, because I think we're just talking about immortality insofar as preventing natural aging, not immortality in the sense of NEVER being able to die. I'm fairly certain that if we did achieve immortality, something else would come about to keep our population under control - disease, violence, starvation, something like that. We'd start killing each other looong before we started running out of elbow room.
If you mean physically immortal, IE, you can go through the center of the sun and live, or clinically immortal, you will live forever provided you dont get hit by a truck.
I did hear something of telomeres, how their deterioration from the end of the DNA chain causes ageing and how if they were coerced into not deteriorating they would lead to clinical immortality.
Physical immortality would be plain stupid. As others have mentioned, it would be the road to insanity.
Clinical immortality would be better, along with some enhanced kind of healing. Even so, it would require a massive change in culture and ethics.
Contraception would become law. Illegal reproduction could become punishable by death (provided we have clinical and not physical immortality).
In the short term, provided it was freely available to all and the social changes occur within say, a decade of Immortality's discovery, then we could look forward to better standards of living, a reduction of the size and frequency of wars and even a better approach to environmental concerns. Face it, if we're immoratal, we cant **** up the environment. We're going to have to live with what we've got.
In the long term though, it would lead to stagnation. Without new generations to ask question challenge and conquer all problems all answers and all adversity, we will be stuck with the same thinking all the time. People become set in their ways etc etc.
We would eventually be concerned with bringing civilisation out of the hierarchy (Leaders -> Overlings -> Underlings -> Working Class -> Unemployed) and into a state where all could be a part of an intellectual civilisation (would you rather break rocks, or become a sculptor? Creative Arts / Sciences > Manual Labor).
Sure we could expand to other planets, but stagnation will continue regardless. Read the Naked Sun by assimov. Earth would become Solaria in the end.
If immortality were to be discovered, it should be kept secret and reserved for minds of brilliance (Einstein, Mendeleev, Newton, etc).
Also, if the treatment that makes people clinically immortal had to be administered before birth, or even before conception, how would you decide who'd receive it?
edit: What would happen if a clinically immortal person were to say "I've seen everything, I'm tired of life, I'm going to kill myself"?
Would they get locked up in a mental hospital, forever, with no means to kill themselves?
Or would society let the commit suicide, perhaps even help them do it?
Non-dying immortality: Evntually you will grow old and your body will not function, but since you can't die your just in an unmovable husk that once was your body.
Immortaliy without aging, but can still "be killed": Sure, would work, but the longer you live, the greater probablity you have of getting into an "accident"
Several of you behave as if we are simple animals that would cause our own extinction if our lifetimes were indefinite. But guess what? Humans, unlike simpler life forms, actually think before reproducing. If I do not think that my children could support themselves (or that I could support them), then I won't have children.
There are plenty of stupid people who have children they cannot support, and the only reason those people cause us trouble is because of the welfare system which entitles them to our money. Eliminate the system and you eliminate the overpopulation problem.
Eventually we will progress to cybernetics and likely conquer aging (unless people like X_Stickman hump each other too much and eat all our bread). I spit in the face of anyone who makes the claim that conquering death due to aging is in any way immoral.
"Life is a right, not a privilege." A rough translation, I know, but it should get the idea across. Of course, I don't want to attack your position in any way, I'm just disagreeing, and this a bit off-topic anyway. Certainly worthy of a new thread, though.
<a href='http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/bigexpansion.htm' target='_blank'>Immortality</a> can be a <i>bad</i> thing, as well. Imagine "living" forever, truly forever, but sleeping most of the time, and when awake, not being able to process any new thoughts. True immortality has its price.
Would it actually be humane to preserve the brain of a supposed genius? Say, you're a great painter, and you're forced by the society to keep painting for centuries. Even if it's a passion at first, wouldn't it get tiring after a while? Or would you really want to apply for immortality so that you could keep painting, develop your skills longer than anyone before, so that you could someday become so good that you're really satisfied with your work? That is, if (clinical) immortality is only granted to a select few.
I believe that the human mind would still be able to improve itself even if the whole population were clinically immortal. There would be such a large amount of inquiring minds that would ensure progress.
At first, it will depend on how accesible it would be. If it was only accesible to the rich and powerful, I'm sure a lot of people would rebel against it. If it was accesible to everyone, the population will increase at an incredibly alarming rate, soon enough not having enough resources to keep everyone in good shape. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with mojo, we NEED death in order to not completely overflow, hell already earth is overpopulated imagine if we all had immortality.
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And once you were satisfied with your work?
take up yoga?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I believe that the human mind would still be able to improve itself even if the whole population were clinically immortal. There would be such a large amount of inquiring minds that would ensure progress.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are only a finite number of neurons in the brain, therefore, there are only a finite number of connections that can be made when you learn something. therefore, there will come a point when you couldn't learn anymore.
If you live forever, You will get bored. guaranteed
I'd be fun.
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I'm surprised to see you agree with such a materialistic argument... where's the soul , the ethereal soul ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways , overpopulation isn't that big of a problem in the next few centuries (imho) if we can afford to colonize new planets , such as Mars (doubling the Earth's capacity) , maybe a few moons of Jupiter or Saturn , and then the rest of the galaxy (hoping it isn't overcrowded already <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I found a full version of the book online, it seems to be legal, but i'm not posting it in case it isn't <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
*The worlds oldest person died last month I believe at the age of 116.
And if you geneticly or mechanicly enhance our bodies or brains, we're not human any more. If we can change our own species, we're almost Gods.
And if you geneticly or mechanicly enhance our bodies or brains, we're not human any more. If we can change our own species, we're almost Gods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's time to evolve...
Speak for yourself, mortal.
BRING ON THE WISDOM OF THE AGES! I'm ready for it.
And if you geneticly or mechanicly enhance our bodies or brains, we're not human any more. If we can change our own species, we're almost Gods. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's time to evolve... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Evolution has worked perfectly so far. we can tell this by the simple fact that Life still exists on Earth in some form or another.
We're already in a position to wipe out all life on Earth (nukes and various other man-created Viruses). What if, while trying to create immortality, we create a new super virus that destroys all life? It just shouldn't be attempted in my opinion.
"The Stand" anyone?
P.S
I know we're already conducting experiments that could lead to this anyway... but we're already doing them, so it's pointless us trying to prevent them. This is just one more risk we don't need.
the CORE are immortal machines, with the minds of their greatest soldures copied and pasted into mechs, and the ARM are armies of clones inside power armor.
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I'm surprised to see you agree with such a materialistic argument... where's the soul , the ethereal soul ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
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not even a christian can agrue against facts...
anyway, back on topic
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways , overpopulation isn't that big of a problem in the next few centuries (imho) if we can afford to colonize new planets , such as Mars (doubling the Earth's capacity) , maybe a few moons of Jupiter or Saturn , and then the rest of the galaxy (hoping it isn't overcrowded already <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
colonising other plantes takes a very long time. To make it worthwhile, you have to terraform them, builgind up a whole eco-system, and that takes a looong time
I don't mean it *would* happen, i'm just saying that, whenever you mess around with genes or anything as complicated as them, there's a risk. And in my opinion, i don't think that risk is worth taking for something that would eventually lead to our downfall.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
I always hear why immortality is sooo bad and sooo evil, and crapsloads of other crap, but the fact is, no one has ever been immortal before, so there's no telling what could happen.