Maps...
uranium_235
Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9478Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">The good, the bad, and the ugly.</div> Are maps getting 'fixed' for 2.1?
Some examples of major pet-peeves...
1) In ns_caged, there's an onos-proof ladder near auxiliary generators (I believe). It's 100% impossible for an onos to climb. Jumping at it, backflipping into it, nothing will ever get you up there. This sucks big-time because it means onos need to run all the way around.
2) Ns_caged, again, desperately needs two more hallways connecting to central processing. The flow of this map is downright dispicable. It's a huge circle, with two halls connecting to the 'hub', or central processing. This means that if marines relocate there, they can get to vent hive in about 8 seconds, they have easy access to sewer hive... more or less: Central processing makes a MAJOR choke point that, if relocated to, will more or less disrupt the whole map. Furthermore, look at the hallways. It's ONE HALLWAY from marine spawn, to generator, to vent. One hall branches, and it goes... surprise! Straight into central processing. I *SUGGEST* adding a hall from stability monitoring to central processing, and simply making central processing MUCH SMALLER. The sheer size makes it prime relocation property, much more appealing then the normal marine spawn, simply because there's no vent leading straight into it, and you aren't stuck in a little 8' by 8' room with a comm chair.
3) ns_nothing: These elevators suck. I'm going down as an onos and some lamer freezes the elevator on me. I'm stuck in the middle. I can't get out. I have no buttons to make it start again. Then some marines wander by with LMGs and gun me down from above. This is crap.
4) ns_bast: What ISN'T wrong with this map? Looks terrific, one of the best looking maps in NS, but... yeah, it sucks. Might help if you still had the source code, I suppose <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Can't do anything with this.
5) ns_lost: Lose the comm chair pit. Lose the weldable node door. I'd say even lose the 'balcony' in the marine spawn which is right above the RT. Make the marine spawn much more brightly lit and make it slightly smaller. This place is just hell. I've never seen a marine win that didn't involve lots of shotguns and tons of medspam.
6) ns_mineshaft: Everyone hates this map, and I'm not sure why. I seriously can't identify why it's flawed. I think it might be the slightly chaotic marine spawn. It might have to do with the incredibly cramped, terribly designed hive rooms that makes locking it down... shall we say, a ****. It might even be the fact that the nearest marine resource node (besides spawn) Is *HALF THE MAP AWAY*.
7) ns_tanith: Either remove the weldable vents in atmospheric processing, or remove the ability to relocate into the room in the vent, resulting in hour-long GL spam through the vent which no one can get in.
8) ns_hera: C'mon, this marine spawn violates almost every mapping guideline created. The vent going straight to archiving is horrible for both teams. One with jetpacks and one with skulks. Secondly, double siege point is a big no no! The elevated catwalk cubbyhole comm chair sucks for both teams as well. It's impossible to make a base in this map, simply because there's no ROOM! The entire marine spawn needs to be deleted and remade from scratch. And that whole lork on the clorf thing...
So anyway...
Some examples of major pet-peeves...
1) In ns_caged, there's an onos-proof ladder near auxiliary generators (I believe). It's 100% impossible for an onos to climb. Jumping at it, backflipping into it, nothing will ever get you up there. This sucks big-time because it means onos need to run all the way around.
2) Ns_caged, again, desperately needs two more hallways connecting to central processing. The flow of this map is downright dispicable. It's a huge circle, with two halls connecting to the 'hub', or central processing. This means that if marines relocate there, they can get to vent hive in about 8 seconds, they have easy access to sewer hive... more or less: Central processing makes a MAJOR choke point that, if relocated to, will more or less disrupt the whole map. Furthermore, look at the hallways. It's ONE HALLWAY from marine spawn, to generator, to vent. One hall branches, and it goes... surprise! Straight into central processing. I *SUGGEST* adding a hall from stability monitoring to central processing, and simply making central processing MUCH SMALLER. The sheer size makes it prime relocation property, much more appealing then the normal marine spawn, simply because there's no vent leading straight into it, and you aren't stuck in a little 8' by 8' room with a comm chair.
3) ns_nothing: These elevators suck. I'm going down as an onos and some lamer freezes the elevator on me. I'm stuck in the middle. I can't get out. I have no buttons to make it start again. Then some marines wander by with LMGs and gun me down from above. This is crap.
4) ns_bast: What ISN'T wrong with this map? Looks terrific, one of the best looking maps in NS, but... yeah, it sucks. Might help if you still had the source code, I suppose <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Can't do anything with this.
5) ns_lost: Lose the comm chair pit. Lose the weldable node door. I'd say even lose the 'balcony' in the marine spawn which is right above the RT. Make the marine spawn much more brightly lit and make it slightly smaller. This place is just hell. I've never seen a marine win that didn't involve lots of shotguns and tons of medspam.
6) ns_mineshaft: Everyone hates this map, and I'm not sure why. I seriously can't identify why it's flawed. I think it might be the slightly chaotic marine spawn. It might have to do with the incredibly cramped, terribly designed hive rooms that makes locking it down... shall we say, a ****. It might even be the fact that the nearest marine resource node (besides spawn) Is *HALF THE MAP AWAY*.
7) ns_tanith: Either remove the weldable vents in atmospheric processing, or remove the ability to relocate into the room in the vent, resulting in hour-long GL spam through the vent which no one can get in.
8) ns_hera: C'mon, this marine spawn violates almost every mapping guideline created. The vent going straight to archiving is horrible for both teams. One with jetpacks and one with skulks. Secondly, double siege point is a big no no! The elevated catwalk cubbyhole comm chair sucks for both teams as well. It's impossible to make a base in this map, simply because there's no ROOM! The entire marine spawn needs to be deleted and remade from scratch. And that whole lork on the clorf thing...
So anyway...
Comments
Hera also seems fine to me... the double seige is a well know strategic point, and can be defended against and assaulted... besides, you need to spot or ping, and while the double seige point can be seiged with one TF, you need more than one seige cannon. And you need to build more than one seige per hive target, usually, otherwise you'll fail. That's a LOT OF RES, all for a point the aliens all know exist and will be throwing everything they've got at you.
The only real problems with bast are the pathetic marine start and refinery hive. Make the marine start more marine friendly, refinery more alien friendly, and I'd say the map is fixed.
The elevators on nothing are part of the balance of nothing. They're designed to be a trap to whoever uses them, and I think I like them that way.
ns_caged has got some serious pathway issues. especially if you turn left out of MS you can only go to generator. All aliens need to do with generator hive to deny marines the whole map is to hold the small hallways to the right of MS. Atleas put some vents through to central processing
I didnt think there was anything wrong with bast. atmos is a good place if you can hold it. but it is very difficult to hold it
I dont particularly like lost anyway, but some of the names are brilliant. Eternal Requiem springs to mind.
I like mineshaft, but i agree, the marine start needs to be re worked. there is just no space
Don't you mean reactor room? the double res with the vent just above the water you can weld shut? As for the GL, a couple of lerks should be able to get rid of them.
Hera is a very difficult map to win as marines on. The only way you are going to get a chance is if you reloc to holoroom, but that is difficult unless the aliens are a bunch of noobs
As for Hera, that justification of double siege was the worst I'd ever heard. Siege turrets are incredibly *CHEAP*, moreso because once marines are in position to turtle down and siege, they have a large nest egg of resources they can afford to spend. I don't consider 15 res for a siege turret to be 'horribly expensive'.
Those vents.. right at marine base are coolest vents ever... i can go ANYWHERE I WANT.....
Ill admit its hard for marines to win.. but thats because they dont want to use what the map has to offer..... VENTS... STRUCTURE... its one of the best designed maps for varying strategies.....
TWO VENTS TO SIEGE ENGINE FROM....BUILD A TF IN THE CORNER OF BASE... DROP SIEGES IN THE VENT... BUILD EM.... ur set!! u can even make a few sentrys down there....
Other fun stuff to do on bas....
Build sieges on the edge of ur base(or on the lift) and tehy will reach out almost to atmospheric..
Sieges by ur comm chair will clear out the vent... and most of Main aft...
Got an onos problem in main aft... DRAW HIM IN.. send 2 vanilla marines around... have them simply re start the rotation as soon as it stops... and hop around madly with like 4 medpacks..... its a risk... but if the onos gets trapped in the door... u can have ur whole team waiting on the other end to unload... and he CANNOT ESCAPE.....
Build Sieges in vent conduit to take care of feedwater..
Sneak Jetpackers thru the vents.. up tram maintenance.. and into the little room above feedwater... build a tf.. and elec it.. Shoot the hive down with constant medspam and if they make it... electrify the tf..... then u can farm the hive without higher life forms beign able to kill the tf... and skulks cant take out electrification very easily...
Sneak Jetpackers thru main aft(if u have it) into the back of tram (datacore) build a phase by the most likely alien rt... and lmg rush the hive from above.. with jetpackers taking positions on the ceiling....Skulks r busy with vanilla marines on the catwalk.. while 2-3 jpers get it from the rafters....
Build tf in docking(more risky than making it in base) and siege engine...
Ive even seen relocations to N-Corridor(vents above atmos.... controlling atmos.. and engine...
Relocating to refinery... and keeping engine gives you 5rt plus marine spawn if u can hold it.... allowing for tech rush...
Mines on this map are good..
number one thing.. USE THE VENTS
number 2 thing.. DONT WELD VENT AT MARINE SPAWN...
number 3 thing... DONT GO OUT ALONE(unless ur name is VASH THE STAMPEDE, and u have a shotty)
But really.. hands down this is my fav map... cuz everyone expects to lose.. and in games i get people to listen to me.. i have around a 35-40 percent win rate as marine
Mineshaft - Why it gets the shaft:
- The worst part of this map is the craptacular layout for fighting. In every single part of this map, save the cafeteria, the marines the have the dominating advantage. The entire map is one long straight hallway. The aliens have about zero points to ambush marines. The lack of any tatical fighting in this map is astounding. There needs to be serious changes to map layout, and lots more cover added in for aliens.
- The second worst part of this map are the hives; all of them are in seculded spots on the map, save Tram Tunnel, which is easily the best part of the map for the aliens to have, as they will be able to easily take over the double node point due to the close vincity it has.
- The vent layout is non-existant... again, aliens have to travel the same routes as marines 24/7, another reason this map is terrible.
- No weld points; weldables do actually add quite a bit to the game.
- The onos is powerless on this map.
Bast - For every area that's built for aliens to own there's an area for marines to own..
Dunno if this is intentional or not, but that's how this map is. I think it's a 50/50 chance of each race to win on this map, for marines to win it always involves a relcation. Marine start is definatly borked.
Hera - It just isn't fun. It's also favors the aliens a lot, with the exception of the double siege point... double siege points are stupid.
No, from the context, I think he meant Waste Handling.
That won't happen in 2.1, the monotoring pods were removed.
1) Marine spawn is SO SCREWED UP it's not even funny. Siege from marine spawn is lame.
2) Refinery is the only hive I like. Feedwater is way too close to the marine base if they relocate, usually it ends up with the aliens fighting a loosing battle outside in the furnace (or whatever it is) while the marines build a huge siege base. Engine room vent siege is lame, very VERY hard for aliens to get in there to stop it. I've seen a commander drop CCs to seal up the vents on one server, so the marines could siege with impunity. Furthermore, engine room is again, too close to the marine spawn. The whole map SEEMS very big, and I love theming (IMO the best looking map in NS), but most of the fighting is done within 20 feet of a hive.
3) Gameplay is very predictable. It always follows a circular pattern through the map. You can't JUST go straight for refinery. Feedwater or engine room are along the way. If they hit one of those, you know refinery is next, and then finally the last hive. There's little room for much tactical play, as the map seems sorta squished down a bit.
4) Half the map is too small for an onos to go through without crouching. HUGE negative points right here.
5) No more easter egg in the control room <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Tanith: I did mean waste handling or whatever. I can't remember the name of it at all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> The big green hive room with the tank and the node on the top of the ladder. Aside from the horrible vent design it's a well-balanced map.
Eclipse and veil: Excellent maps. I think veil is severely lacking in the eyecandy department, however. Double node siege sucks, but thankfully it's been changed.
Origin: Biodome hive.
<b>Never ever put elevators as the only ways out of a hive k thx</b>.
All the marines need to do is have their commander keep the elevators at the top by clicking them and they can siege WITHOUT ANY RISK AT ALL. No alien can get in unless they're coming from another hive. Suck suck suck. I *ALWAYS* see this hive get slam-dunked and locked down. I can't remember a single game where biodome didn't get completely NUKED by the marines at some point (That is, assuming it's not the last hive to go up).
In that map with generator (not the one with the generator hive, but the one with the big pit in the middle of the room), there's a walkway up there, and it's simply impossible to kill anything that sits up there, without using GLs or jetpacks... The grating of the walkway should be shoot-throughable. and stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
In that map with generator (not the one with the generator hive, but the one with the big pit in the middle of the room), there's a walkway up there, and it's simply impossible to kill anything that sits up there, without using GLs or jetpacks... The grating of the walkway should be shoot-throughable. and stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can someone help me out? I can't think of the room he's describing. I was sort of thinking power silo at first, but there's no pit there.
Can someone help me out? I can't think of the room he's describing. I was sort of thinking power silo at first, but there's no pit there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the is talking about Viaduct hive, the walkway in the top of the hive room. You cant shoot through the grates.
true dat
Mineshaft is a beautiful map, MS is cramped, but otherwise I just love this map. Shazbot has a point, HL = relatively bad gfx, and you don't get the atmospheric effect the author was aiming for. If this map was in HL2 tho...
Hera and bast are unique in terms of gamestyle. They do break some guidelines, but only because they were trying something original. Dbl siege point = horrible, I agree, that should be removed. BTW, the key to hera is cargo. Drop a welder, get a few guys down there to weld cargo. If their hive is vent, you should be able to relocate to hera easily.
In that map with generator (not the one with the generator hive, but the one with the big pit in the middle of the room), there's a walkway up there, and it's simply impossible to kill anything that sits up there, without using GLs or jetpacks... The grating of the walkway should be shoot-throughable. and stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hes talking about Eclipse
Ns_agora
Ns_ayumi
Ns_metal
I just listed the maps I have in my 2.1o folder. ( new ns_ maps)
Ns_agora
Ns_ayumi
Ns_metal
I just listed the maps I have in my 2.1o folder. ( new ns_ maps) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
saweeet! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Announcement, quiet down people, quiet down please!
I would just like to announce ns_symetrical. The entire map is perfectly balanced, and glitch free. Each res is EXACTLY the same distance apart. Each hive is exactly the same distance apart, and exactly the same distance from marine start. No doors or elevators for fear that people will be jerks and abuse them. All rooms have flat floors to ease building. No dark, moody textures and lighting, because that hampers gameplay. No ladders because they slow down onos. Weldeable flag poles, that do nothing for gameplay but just so that we have weldables. All hallways are short and followed by a corner. Each hallway is in fact almost identical so as to not give any an advantage to anyone. Each hallway is also labelled with lots of signs so you always know exactly where you are and where you need to go. All vents simply run along side a room so as to not allow skulks, lerks, or jps the ability to get anywhere to fast, but yet allow them to avoid WOL's or Marine relocations. (Considering making two hallways that lead to everywhere, JUST in case.)
Alright, I hope you are happy with this!<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Now, to get serious:
Yes, some good points are being made and THANK YOU for at least dropping a reason why you hate something, but before people get on the "complain train" do please remember that this game covers is VERY dynamic range of strategies and one change, may either dumb down a map too much, or open up another "exploit". Also, unfortunately, these maps are not made from legos, so it's not a simple task of totally rearranging things by snapping one part off and clicking it down somewhere else. The makers of these maps also have lives and jobs outside of NS. Don't worry. Serious problems will be taken care of. But just remember, this is what happened with CS and now dust and iceworld are the most popular maps in that game. (Last time I played it anyway... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) Perfectly balanced, but... yuck... beautiful, complex maps like torn and chateau are shot down at the expense of near perfect balance, easy to learn maps. Bug hunting on the other hand is always appreciated. Now, my opinion, (other than onos ladder glitches and such) is the opposite. These maps are fantastic, and I enjoy every single one of them.
Now, to butcher a quote from someone who's name I can't remember:
"You cannot appreciate art until you have attempted to make art."