<!--QuoteBegin--STD-SilverWolf+Oct 30 2003, 01:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (STD-SilverWolf @ Oct 30 2003, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok let me re-phrase that, no one that is important is attacking cri. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed.
I dont know how long this thread will last so I just want to say, anyone using this as an opportunity to attack cri should be ashamed. The simple fact is they are a veteran clan and deserving of respect, regardless of personal feelings for some of their players.
Not only did they withstand the test of time when so many other vet clans couldn't, they've survived through the cristian episodes and I'm positive they can do it through this with or without people randomly attacking them. Mostly I'm sorry for bringing this into the public so people can just gang up on them. I didn't want that and I'm sure no one else in my clan did. alot of people need to realize how easy it is to succumb to drama and how well they have done in the past and will continue to do in pushing on regardless of it
l-o-l <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> BWAHHHHH? EvolGrande??? Holy god. Been a while.
The MPELP/MacH #lobsters alliance consists mainly of DeathRay, Cloud, Yogurt, Ronin, Birdman and myself with others joining in occasionally, like Nightfall and KrazyKrow.
<!--QuoteBegin--STD-SilverWolf+Oct 30 2003, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (STD-SilverWolf @ Oct 30 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ex-STD guy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, we got banned from your servers in both NS and DoD, it was hilarious! Good to see you.
<!--QuoteBegin--CHAMOIS+Oct 30 2003, 02:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CHAMOIS @ Oct 30 2003, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's a small internet after all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Believe it or not, I've run into FoolKiller a whole lot while playing TS and NS, and I don't play online game all that much.
I'll be your nanny, honey, but I MUST wear my nurse's outfit!
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
I don't really think its fair to blame our clan because one of your members is a highly suspicious character. Just because #hamburg is a popular channel doesn't mean its our fault. I think one of the reason people probably like it is because I refuse to censor anyone and anyone can say exactly how they feel.
1) We arent the ones who took the demos 2) We arent the ones who made avis of the demos with a wallhack on, so you could watch yumosis follow skulks through walls with his crosshair.
In fact, I was sent a very incriminating, real chat log between mosis and another player, which I talked to yumosis about last night after all the drama and it is unlikely that it will ever be posted(he admits that the chatlog is real, he claims it is misleading)
This is something that people have been talking about for weeks, and it just happened to all come out in our channel. That isnt our fault and it doesnt make us bad people, and I dont think its fair for you to harbor hatred or anger towards us for this whole thing coming to light.
The fact is, it is very hard to watch those demos with an open mind and say that he doesnt have something very suspicious going on. I'm not going to lie, I think hes hacking. I told him that outright last night. But I was also one of the few people who tried to keep an open mind about the whole thing. I know that the commander can see skulk blips in vents when the marines cant, and I tell my marines where skulks are all the time.
But im sorry, people just dont move the way yumosis moves, they dont know where every skulk is before they turn a corner. I have seen FPS demos of great players who's commander tells them where skulks are, and nobody would call them hackers. There is something overly suspicious about the way he plays. Then, when you watch the AVI that was recorded with the wallhack on, he is watching skulks through the wall and literally keeping his crosshair on them as he turns the corner. That plus this chat log where he basically admits to hacking previously and still having hacks on his comp, it makes it very hard to believe hes just an innocent victim who is getting blamed because of politics or something.
wow, inter clan drama! we tried to get some clan drama going on, but then we got all riled up an.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzZZzZ *snort* hunh? oh, sorry yes, napping. foginess kicking in.
not to be disrespectful, but it seems this is mainly an issue between two clans that can be brought to their boards?
because, honestly, most of this thread is just like what Charlie Brown hears when the teacher is talking (mwwa wa, mwaa wa wa)
I personally like the guy. He helped #PUGX a ton. But anyone who admits to having used hacks before ought be banned for life. I dont even care if he hacks now.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited October 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Niteowl+Oct 30 2003, 01:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Oct 30 2003, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> not to be disrespectful, but it seems this is mainly an issue between two clans that can be brought to their boards? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its between three clans, one of which we are not. Gunslinger is mad because he smurfed on HAMPTONS, some people thought he was hacking, and he got banned (not by me). But, because just about every single person in the NS community believed he hacked, and I got 5-10 messages a day asking for me to ban him, I just thought it would be easier to leave him banned, and it has been. Am I the one that called you a hacker gunslinger? Or was it your own clan that accused you of hacking and kicked you out?
And for the record gunslinger - I've said many times that I dont think you cheat. I saw one demo of you in the beta and it didnt look that suspicious to me. I defended you for a few months. But I dont run my server like a monarchy, there's nothing I hate more than a guy trying to exert his authority and flex his muscle just to show you who's boss. I try my best to run it like a democracy, and I could only defend you for so long. When it was perfectly clear that a majority of the regulars thought you cheated and wanted you out, I had to leave you banned. If you dont understand that and you want to hate me and my clan for that, then I understand, but I think you should reevaluate the situation.
We actually kicked him out due to the fallout of all the accusations and he rejoined later. I allowed him to rejoin the clan because of the advice of none other than HAMBONE.
Gunslinger and Mosis both got accused by alot of people. I guess Mosis will have to fade away into obscurity like Gunslinger did.
Despite any hardship they've brought me.... I still count both of them as my friends.
The real killer about all of this... is that we'll never know the truth. The only "evidence" that anybody has is simply a bunch of data on a computer. We can't really ascertain the truth from that. Logs are easily manipulated; Avis can be manipulated as well. While a demo isn't easily alterable, the demos prove nothing conclusively.
I've seen demos of romano that were much more thought provoking, but I see that most of the NS community respects him as a great player. I think now would be a good time to mention that romano is Mosis's idol. Romano taught mosis much of what he knows about NS.
I suppose somebody could resolve this by going to Mosis's house and observing him with their own eyes. He lives in NC. I think that might be feasible.
I don't think anybody will be willing to travel to Panama to observe The Gunslinger, though.
Neither is likely to happen. So I guess the moral of the story is this:
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
My opinion (which has been shared many times in many places including #hamburg) is that in all of this cri comes out hurt the most.
Because unlike the demos which look pretty obvious to me, there is no real way to know if cri knew that yumo used any form of cheats. I suspect a lot of people will assume they did. I believe the comment "who knows you better than your clanmates" was made a while ago. Again, I'm not passing judgement and certainly don't know anything more than what I've seen for either side of the arguement..
But this is going to damage cri's reputation.
Assuming nothing is done about yumo (if he's innocent, or not) then every match he plays with cri or another team will be carefully watched and monitored and every kill he gets will be questioned.
But to attack Hambone and HAM for anything they might have said, or done in this matter is completely wrong...
This probably isnt my place to talk, but I'm gonna post my opinion anyways.
Why dont people keep a "hacker accusation" between them and the owner of the server/anyone involved, with sufficient proof in their hands for the ban/warning BEFORE starting the accusations? Why do some ignorant people come out on IRC or ingame and start spamming hacker (Not as a joke [thats me]) when they dont have proof? If they had a correct amount of proof, they would present it to the head server admin, wait for a reply (Which would probably be a ban/warning and a confirmation of their efforts to keep the server "clensed) from the admin. Then the admin could go on, <b>in private</b> about the same disscussion with the opposing clan that "houses" the suspected hacker and get it taken care of.
There wouldnt be any flaming, or open board disscussions about it. The problem would be solved!
CHAMOIS: I never said I was jealous of his skills. I was just posting my oppinion on the subject, which is quite the rebel one compared to most people :/ . I never want to be like him, nor is #1 in my views. Nor did I exploit, not even 1 cvar except hud_fastswitch do I use to my advantage.
HAMBONE: I dont hate you or your clan, or anyone in this community. I know most people online act without inhibitions, which makes it all the easier for conflicts to start. But what I do hate is that sometimes it just gets way too overboard. Cheating accusations get tiring and ridiculous. Me, I dont have any "leet" skills, but if I get a lucky kill or 2, even 3 in a row, the same suspicious thing happens. The whisperings, the pms to you.
And the reason I change my names is because of how I think. I used to (ask my clanmates) to change my mouse sensitivity every freaking day like 8 times. I cut down now to none. It is kind of a tad hard to adapt to 2 sensitivity coming from 20. :/ Maybe someday I will stop changing names. Hope fa1lure is the last one.
If you look at this video.. I ask where he is "following skulks thru the walls" with his crosshairs. In every instance I see he is waiting for the skulk to come around the corner and its all sound.
I'm not convinced at all.
Many folks are saying that Mosis may have hacked back when he was in STD. You'd have to talk to Kalmah, Silverwolf, and Jugg about that.
whats that saying... "Being a skilled player is like being a hacker who never gets caught"
People will watch you just waiting for you to do something that looks like it can't be real. When you think someone is chating, no matter what, you will find your evidence.
<!--QuoteBegin--CHAMOIS+Oct 30 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CHAMOIS @ Oct 30 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> haha yeah I remember that. I'm probably the only person who remembers "I kill n***ers" guy though. I dont know why that stuck with me.
As far as mosis, he's not a skilled player. He plays like a complete newbie and yet knows where things are. That is horse ****
watch the new avi that came out on eclipse, he is constantly aiming at things through walls as well as tracking things through them.
He didnt used to hack, he DOES hack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you kidding me?
1) We<i> may</i> have had MT.
2) He's not aiming at anything thru walls. He sits and waits for the skulks to come around the corner. I can see it quite clearly.
Well like you said demo's can't really be conclusive. I've watched them and they do look alittle suspicious but nothing to be banned over. As for the avi i've had people tell me that he's outright hacking and i've had people tell me the it doesn't look like he's hacking at all. Admittedly more people say he's hacking but it's really an opinion thing. I myself can't seem to get the damn thing to work <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> The thing is I think theirs alot of people who don't think he hacks and just don't care enough to argue about it. Whereas the people who think he's hacking are being very vocal.
Anyway the only thing I actually had to add was that you mentioned people editing logs but he has said that the logs brought against him to cal are correct so just stop that
this + the logs we have that don't need to be made public for other peoples sake right now + the fact that people have been talking a long time now = hack
simple mathematics! I understand cri doesn't want to just alienate their friend, but the fact is he is deceiving them and it will come to that eventually. Right now I'm just waiting for CAL to make a stand and stop looking like a joke on the matter.
lock this thread, it will only fall into the flame/spamfest that #hamburg was for several hours last nite.
avi's released of the demos with wallhack on confirms that cri.mosis (AKA CAPSLOCK(-_-)) was using a wallhack during at least two scrims. I'm sure the CAL officials will take the proper actions and there will be a huge crackdown on cheating.
People, if you're cheating in an ONLINE GAME that's pretty sad.
<!--QuoteBegin--civman2+Oct 30 2003, 04:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (civman2 @ Oct 30 2003, 04:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lock this thread, it will only fall into the flame/spamfest that #hamburg was for several hours last nite.
avi's released of the demos with wallhack on confirms that cri.mosis (AKA CAPSLOCK(-_-)) was using a wallhack during at least two scrims. I'm sure the CAL officials will take the proper actions and there will be a huge crackdown on cheating.
People, if you're cheating in an ONLINE GAME that's pretty sad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Even sadder than cheating in an online game is condemning an innocent man to punishment.
You have no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. You have a bunch of demos of mosis killing skulks. Big whoop. Its not over until the fat lady sings.
How can an avi confirm anything? I'll go dredge up some spectating of Shampoo, romano, or ackz and see how incredibly good they look with wallhacks on.
SOUND exists in the game so you can HEAR what you CANNOT SEE.
Comments
Indeed.
Not only did they withstand the test of time when so many other vet clans couldn't, they've survived through the cristian episodes and I'm positive they can do it through this with or without people randomly attacking them. Mostly I'm sorry for bringing this into the public so people can just gang up on them. I didn't want that and I'm sure no one else in my clan did. alot of people need to realize how easy it is to succumb to drama and how well they have done in the past and will continue to do in pushing on regardless of it
l-o-l <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
BWAHHHHH? EvolGrande??? Holy god. Been a while.
The MPELP/MacH #lobsters alliance consists mainly of DeathRay, Cloud, Yogurt, Ronin, Birdman and myself with others joining in occasionally, like Nightfall and KrazyKrow.
Yes, we got banned from your servers in both NS and DoD, it was hilarious! Good to see you.
Unless the DoD STD is different than the NS STD.
Believe it or not, I've run into FoolKiller a whole lot while playing TS and NS, and I don't play online game all that much.
I'll be your nanny, honey, but I MUST wear my nurse's outfit!
1) We arent the ones who took the demos
2) We arent the ones who made avis of the demos with a wallhack on, so you could watch yumosis follow skulks through walls with his crosshair.
In fact, I was sent a very incriminating, real chat log between mosis and another player, which I talked to yumosis about last night after all the drama and it is unlikely that it will ever be posted(he admits that the chatlog is real, he claims it is misleading)
This is something that people have been talking about for weeks, and it just happened to all come out in our channel. That isnt our fault and it doesnt make us bad people, and I dont think its fair for you to harbor hatred or anger towards us for this whole thing coming to light.
The fact is, it is very hard to watch those demos with an open mind and say that he doesnt have something very suspicious going on. I'm not going to lie, I think hes hacking. I told him that outright last night. But I was also one of the few people who tried to keep an open mind about the whole thing. I know that the commander can see skulk blips in vents when the marines cant, and I tell my marines where skulks are all the time.
But im sorry, people just dont move the way yumosis moves, they dont know where every skulk is before they turn a corner. I have seen FPS demos of great players who's commander tells them where skulks are, and nobody would call them hackers. There is something overly suspicious about the way he plays. Then, when you watch the AVI that was recorded with the wallhack on, he is watching skulks through the wall and literally keeping his crosshair on them as he turns the corner. That plus this chat log where he basically admits to hacking previously and still having hacks on his comp, it makes it very hard to believe hes just an innocent victim who is getting blamed because of politics or something.
not to be disrespectful, but it seems this is mainly an issue between two clans that can be brought to their boards?
because, honestly, most of this thread is just like what Charlie Brown hears when the teacher is talking (mwwa wa, mwaa wa wa)
(amongst other, more productive things.)
Its between three clans, one of which we are not. Gunslinger is mad because he smurfed on HAMPTONS, some people thought he was hacking, and he got banned (not by me). But, because just about every single person in the NS community believed he hacked, and I got 5-10 messages a day asking for me to ban him, I just thought it would be easier to leave him banned, and it has been. Am I the one that called you a hacker gunslinger? Or was it your own clan that accused you of hacking and kicked you out?
And for the record gunslinger - I've said many times that I dont think you cheat. I saw one demo of you in the beta and it didnt look that suspicious to me. I defended you for a few months. But I dont run my server like a monarchy, there's nothing I hate more than a guy trying to exert his authority and flex his muscle just to show you who's boss. I try my best to run it like a democracy, and I could only defend you for so long. When it was perfectly clear that a majority of the regulars thought you cheated and wanted you out, I had to leave you banned. If you dont understand that and you want to hate me and my clan for that, then I understand, but I think you should reevaluate the situation.
We actually kicked him out due to the fallout of all the accusations and he rejoined later. I allowed him to rejoin the clan because of the advice of none other than HAMBONE.
Gunslinger and Mosis both got accused by alot of people. I guess Mosis will have to fade away into obscurity like Gunslinger did.
Despite any hardship they've brought me.... I still count both of them as my friends.
The real killer about all of this... is that we'll never know the truth. The only "evidence" that anybody has is simply a bunch of data on a computer. We can't really ascertain the truth from that. Logs are easily manipulated; Avis can be manipulated as well. While a demo isn't easily alterable, the demos prove nothing conclusively.
I've seen demos of romano that were much more thought provoking, but I see that most of the NS community respects him as a great player. I think now would be a good time to mention that romano is Mosis's idol. Romano taught mosis much of what he knows about NS.
I suppose somebody could resolve this by going to Mosis's house and observing him with their own eyes. He lives in NC. I think that might be feasible.
I don't think anybody will be willing to travel to Panama to observe The Gunslinger, though.
Neither is likely to happen. So I guess the moral of the story is this:
Don't hate Yumosis, The Gunslinger or myself.
Because unlike the demos which look pretty obvious to me, there is no real way to know if cri knew that yumo used any form of cheats. I suspect a lot of people will assume they did. I believe the comment "who knows you better than your clanmates" was made a while ago. Again, I'm not passing judgement and certainly don't know anything more than what I've seen for either side of the arguement..
But this is going to damage cri's reputation.
Assuming nothing is done about yumo (if he's innocent, or not) then every match he plays with cri or another team will be carefully watched and monitored and every kill he gets will be questioned.
But to attack Hambone and HAM for anything they might have said, or done in this matter is completely wrong...
anyway my 2 cents.
Why dont people keep a "hacker accusation" between them and the owner of the server/anyone involved, with sufficient proof in their hands for the ban/warning BEFORE starting the accusations? Why do some ignorant people come out on IRC or ingame and start spamming hacker (Not as a joke [thats me]) when they dont have proof? If they had a correct amount of proof, they would present it to the head server admin, wait for a reply (Which would probably be a ban/warning and a confirmation of their efforts to keep the server "clensed) from the admin. Then the admin could go on, <b>in private</b> about the same disscussion with the opposing clan that "houses" the suspected hacker and get it taken care of.
There wouldnt be any flaming, or open board disscussions about it. The problem would be solved!
...erm ...thats IMHO anyways.
HAMBONE: I dont hate you or your clan, or anyone in this community. I know most people online act without inhibitions, which makes it all the easier for conflicts to start. But what I do hate is that sometimes it just gets way too overboard. Cheating accusations get tiring and ridiculous. Me, I dont have any "leet" skills, but if I get a lucky kill or 2, even 3 in a row, the same suspicious thing happens. The whisperings, the pms to you.
And the reason I change my names is because of how I think. I used to (ask my clanmates) to change my mouse sensitivity every freaking day like 8 times. I cut down now to none. It is kind of a tad hard to adapt to 2 sensitivity coming from 20. :/
Maybe someday I will stop changing names. Hope fa1lure is the last one.
it's rather large-scale... CAL-large... NSD-large... you know... large
<a href='http://www.mad-assassins.com/lolmosis2!.avi' target='_blank'>http://www.mad-assassins.com/lolmosis2!.avi</a>
If you look at this video.. I ask where he is "following skulks thru the walls" with his crosshairs. In every instance I see he is waiting for the skulk to come around the corner and its all sound.
I'm not convinced at all.
Many folks are saying that Mosis may have hacked back when he was in STD. You'd have to talk to Kalmah, Silverwolf, and Jugg about that.
All I can say is that he isn't hacking now.
GL IN LIFE
"Being a skilled player is like being a hacker who never gets caught"
People will watch you just waiting for you to do something that looks like it can't be real. When you think someone is chating, no matter what, you will find your evidence.
As far as mosis, he's not a skilled player. He plays like a complete newbie and yet knows where things are. That is horse ****
watch the new avi that came out on eclipse, he is constantly aiming at things through walls as well as tracking things through them.
He didnt used to hack, he DOES hack.
As far as mosis, he's not a skilled player. He plays like a complete newbie and yet knows where things are. That is horse ****
watch the new avi that came out on eclipse, he is constantly aiming at things through walls as well as tracking things through them.
He didnt used to hack, he DOES hack. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you kidding me?
1) We<i> may</i> have had MT.
2) He's not aiming at anything thru walls. He sits and waits for the skulks to come around the corner. I can see it quite clearly.
Anyway the only thing I actually had to add was that you mentioned people editing logs but he has said that the logs brought against him to cal are correct so just stop that
this + the logs we have that don't need to be made public for other peoples sake right now + the fact that people have been talking a long time now = hack
simple mathematics! I understand cri doesn't want to just alienate their friend, but the fact is he is deceiving them and it will come to that eventually. Right now I'm just waiting for CAL to make a stand and stop looking like a joke on the matter.
avi's released of the demos with wallhack on confirms that cri.mosis (AKA CAPSLOCK(-_-)) was using a wallhack during at least two scrims. I'm sure the CAL officials will take the proper actions and there will be a huge crackdown on cheating.
People, if you're cheating in an ONLINE GAME that's pretty sad.
avi's released of the demos with wallhack on confirms that cri.mosis (AKA CAPSLOCK(-_-)) was using a wallhack during at least two scrims. I'm sure the CAL officials will take the proper actions and there will be a huge crackdown on cheating.
People, if you're cheating in an ONLINE GAME that's pretty sad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even sadder than cheating in an online game is condemning an innocent man to punishment.
You have no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. You have a bunch of demos of mosis killing skulks. Big whoop. Its not over until the fat lady sings.
How can an avi confirm anything? I'll go dredge up some spectating of Shampoo, romano, or ackz and see how incredibly good they look with wallhacks on.
SOUND exists in the game so you can HEAR what you CANNOT SEE.