Sometimes even GoM can show a lot of disrespect for us lower clans, though. Just the other day Alpha sat down and thought up a way to insult every member of our clan.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lord Fanny-[MacH]+Oct 30 2003, 12:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord Fanny-[MacH] @ Oct 30 2003, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We are subversives in a discordian sense (though not conciously, as I don't know a damn thing about discordianism). That is how we play.
We do bizarre tactics, we actively try to extend last stands as long as possible. Sometimes we start a game specifically to tailor it towards a last stand. We hide. We build giant electric fences for defensive use, only in the most bizarre places.
Of the good few servers we've been banned from, the STD servers stick out the most. We hold the distinction of having individuals banned from both the NS servers AND the DOD servers of STD. I recall all I would ever hear from them over the voice comm was constant swearing and rampant accusations of pedophilic (and sometimes incestuous) tendencies. They were hilarious! We love STD, despite the whole being "completely banned from their servers" thing.
This is us. We'd love to meet you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> STD died like three months ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--TypographicalError+Oct 30 2003, 01:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TypographicalError @ Oct 30 2003, 01:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sometimes even GoM can show a lot of disrespect for us lower clans, though. Just the other day Alpha sat down and thought up a way to insult every member of our clan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's why Alpha's so great though. He's got the attitude of two superstars when he's only just one... it's probably to make up for the fact that Digi is a mute. I never so much minded old school GoM's attitude as it was based mainly around Alpha just blurting out painful truths whenever he felt like it and Kirari shouting really loud about stuff he didn't like. Some of the newer additions have attitudes I could care less for and that played a part in why I left to help form TU - but that's a whole nother story.
If that was happening, I must say it would seriously demoralise a new clan. There's no real point to extending a match out like that. Mining a hive is a legit tactic, that is true, but when it is the last hive and the marines obviously have no chance of losing then they should just shotgun the hive and end it.
In fact, I'd say a prime reason it doesn't happen here in Oz is because clan games have time limits that affect the final outcome of the match. Say two clans war, and each side wins as aliens (very common back in 2.0). The side that killed the marines the fastest is the winner. Hence, extending a game out when you are <i>winning</i> is a very bad idea. Extending the game when you're losing can be a viable tactic, although with gren-armoury spams gone it's quite difficult.
US clans used to have the tie decided by time, but that led to teams focusing on faster strategies rather than solid map controlling ones. For the moment in the US (or well CAL) a tie is a tie. Attempted tie breaker systems have included looking at some sort of speed-resource score, but nothing definitive has come up yet.
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Oct 29 2003, 10:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Oct 29 2003, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This thread confuses me a little. Your mad because the top clans toy with you? WTH do you think happened to dn` when they used to play sYn in early 1.04? It's a phase you go through. Your not gonna start and be able to so much as poke ham in the eye. And they can toy as much as they want without cheating. As for this every clan would hack if it was allowed **** WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. THAT IS THE DUMBEST **** I HAVE EVER SEEN. IF CHEATING WAS ALLOWED IT WOULDN't BE CHEATING WOULD IT. NOT TO freaking MENTION THAT EVERYONE GOING OMG CLANNERS HACK IS SUCH UTTER ****. I know for a fact most of dn doesn't script at all. A few have a jump script or fade fastswitch. None of them hack. And none of them mess with their cfg. If they can build 400 observatories in your hive then scan it until it crashes the server then thats your fault not theirs. I have first person demo's and hltv demo's of all their matchs and a hell of alot of their scrims.
Im not saying it's right for them to toy with you. I know dn` has taught a few clans alot of tricks to the game. But if you want f4 or don't play them don't **** about them being better then you. And for godsakes have some evidence before you call someone a hacker. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
He never ever mentioned anything about cheating. It's disrespectful and just plain stupid of bigger clans to toy with you. Sure, all the big ol' vets love to post great big posts about how the NS community is dying, but besides the pandas -- most of them don't really care. I'm co-leader of a new clan, and the only reason we're still around is probably some sort of devine intervention. The way bigger clans just scrim us, beat us, and continually pressure us (*COUGH* EVOLUTION REVOLUTION *COUGH*) before and after a scrim, our general moral's pretty low.
If toying with new clans are a phase, then I suppose getting beat up and bullied in school is a phase too.
Ummm ummm first of all one of the guys earlier was talkin about how to be a good clan you have to have some hacking members and you all have to exploit. Thats where my first comments came from.
Anyway wth do you want us to do? There are alot of clans eR for instance as you pointed out who can just walk into your hive and kill you anytime they want when playing non upper teir clans.
Earlier today I was asking for a scrim and a clan said no we won't play a top clan. Good for them. Theres your answer.
Stop bitching if you don't like it when ham or ir. or gom or anyone toys with you don't play with them. There are nice clans out there scrim them. And then when your good come back and beat the asshats down. Except for me because you will never be able to beat me. But thats a different matter.
It's not right if someone toys with you but it's not their responsibility. You could become good to stop it. You could surrender to stop it. Or you could just not play **** in the first place. It's not hard. sYn were bitchs when we played them in 1.04 so we refused to play them. Instead we played with X/0 and they taught us alot of cool **** before they started ptin.
So basicly what you all are arguing about is that theres a few <b><u>american</b></u> clan out there whom like to humiliate some less skilled clans ? Dont play them, problem solved.
Funny though.. i fail to see how this topic continues the earlier thread's at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Oct 30 2003, 03:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Oct 30 2003, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ummm ummm first of all one of the guys earlier was talkin about how to be a good clan you have to have some hacking members and you all have to exploit. Thats where my first comments came from.
Anyway wth do you want us to do? There are alot of clans eR for instance as you pointed out who can just walk into your hive and kill you anytime they want when playing non upper teir clans.
Earlier today I was asking for a scrim and a clan said no we won't play a top clan. Good for them. Theres your answer.
Stop bitching if you don't like it when ham or ir. or gom or anyone toys with you don't play with them. There are nice clans out there scrim them. And then when your good come back and beat the asshats down. Except for me because you will never be able to beat me. But thats a different matter.
It's not right if someone toys with you but it's not their responsibility. You could become good to stop it. You could surrender to stop it. Or you could just not play **** in the first place. It's not hard. sYn were bitchs when we played them in 1.04 so we refused to play them. Instead we played with X/0 and they taught us alot of cool **** before they started ptin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you're missing the point entirely. People are asking why the clan scene is dwindling. Yes a good team can be asshats, because they're good, they've trained and somehow they feel it's now their perogative to do so. You're entirely right that a clan could get good and show these mean old clans that their attitude is wrong, and congrats you've done it, and become one yourself! But that answers the question in itself, true sportsmen find no interest in winning just to prove their point over someone else's, it makes you no better than the next asshat.
Most new clans have no interest in being the next HAMS they just want to play ns - win, lose, tie, regardless they can have fun playing at a higher level with more skilled teams. You don't get it at all. No one is upset that they get pulvarized into bloody pulps, it gives them something to work for, people are upset because the upper echelon clan scene is filled with people who are 13 years old at heart. It's nothing to aspire to, and thus new clans leave to go play something else. Why would I want to train for a year to get as good as the team that spawn camped my hive while a lone siege killed it? To beat them? To feel some sort of online-digital-e-****-satisfaction? If I was that depraved for some sense of accomplishment I'd go out for a jog. I don't think HAMBONE was too far off in his original thread; the NS community lacks any sort of real ethical center, no one competes for the sake of competing (in his example he felt people use scripts abundantly) and in mine I think the veteran clans show little respect to people and that's a big turn off to people.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ots+Oct 30 2003, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Oct 30 2003, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So basicly what you all are arguing about is that theres a few <b><u>american</b></u> clan out there whom like to humiliate some less skilled clans ? Dont play them, problem solved.
Funny though.. i fail to see how this topic continues the earlier thread's at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well seeing as for the moment most American teams can only play other American teams, and there are less than 20 active ones in CAL I think it's a pertinent problem. I may be wrong, but look at how many teams original signed up for CAL and look how many now sit in "Division Unassigned."
This continues the other topic because the last one got derailed long before the spam. The original arguement wasn't actually if scripts should be allowed or not, but the fact that it shows weakness of character to use them in the first place, and it's that weakness of character among the top clans that's causing the clan scene to dwindle. I furthered the arguement suggesting that the same weakness of character leads the majority of top clans to zoomtards and disrespect up and coming clans shying them away from the NS community. I'm not saying being an **** should be banned (as that makes little to no sense), I'm just curious as to why people are puzzled by clan scene's shrinking when both old and new clans are pointing out the empty moral core at the top.
I find it disturbing not only that things of that nature happen but that some people don't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Just because something isn't against the rules doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
I'm fairly confident that the Australian is right here (as they usually are.. perceptive bunch them roo-molesters), it is a matter of maturity. If someone gets their 'kicks' out of not besting, but humiliating, an opponent in an internet game nonethelsee, they have to be lacking in Real Life. Maybe they were (are?) picked on in school and want to lash out. *shrug*
And just FYI
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's just like in any game where a team dominates the other, and does silly things like score 10000 runs in one inning of baseball, tons of goals in soccer, whatever. It exists in all competetions, and it also exists in pub play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't happen. In competetive play it would be considered unsportsmanlike (I guess the word on the internet would be 'lame'). If you do it in a league, you're a jerk, if you do it in a friendly game, you don't have any friends.
Seriously. What's wrong with some of you people? What is the *point* of humiliating an opponent that you have defeated? Have you *any* idea how immature and weak that makes you look? I mean how sad are you if you have to rub someones nose in the fact that they lost in a computergame.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most new clans have no interest in being the next HAMS they just want to play ns - win, lose, tie, regardless they can have fun playing at a higher level with more skilled teams. You don't get it at all. No one is upset that they get pulvarized into bloody pulps, it gives them something to work for, people are upset because the upper echelon clan scene is filled with people who are 13 years old at heart. It's nothing to aspire to, and thus new clans leave to go play something else. Why would I want to train for a year to get as good as the team that spawn camped my hive while a lone siege killed it? To beat them? To feel some sort of online-digital-e-****-satisfaction<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then don't play good clans. It's not that complicated.
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Oct 30 2003, 04:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Oct 30 2003, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then don't play good clans. It's not that complicated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You still don't get it. It's not about if the clan is good or not, or winning or losing , it's about respect and the fact that most of the old clans seem incapable of giving it out.
It'd be an easy solution to say, "Don't play clans that don't give respect." The only problem is it only seems to be the upper echelon teams that have this problem... hence why you have a problem of new teams disappearing, because if you opt not to play with **** you quickly find youself out of challenging opponents. Which leads us to new clans leaving the leagues to go do something more productive. Yes, I agree with your solution of not playing as being viable, but I'm trying to find one that will keep the NS clan scene active with more than 16 teams. This thread is about why clans die and break up and how to keep them around - not playing doesn't exactly work that well.
Lets talk about the sportmanship involved in NS match play, frankly aside from a few select clans a most clans are shameless in their need for a win, and will do most anything to get one. About half of my clan won't play on the League/Match level due to fear of game exploits or whatever else is out there. I for a long time have tried to talk many non competitive clans into playing in CAL or UGL or, clanfission, or whatever because I like match play. Sadly as of late I dont see the point. All of the top players are in the top clans and aside from some help from HAM and pandas nobody is willing to help other clans out, in fact some clans will try thier damnedest to bait you into a scrim so they can talk trash about how they pwnzored joo, and how you are all nubs... or whatever the kids say nowdays... where is the sportsmanship? where is the friendly competition? I'll tell you, its on pubs. It will probably only be there too. Every once in a while you will come across the lamer 12 year old, but most of the time play is fun and friendly. Sometimes you will find it in match play... but rarely. Most competitive teams are just out to prove that they are the absolute best at some obscure halflife mod... and man does that ammount to a lot :/ People wonder why the clan scene is dying? Well NS used to be a fun game... Sadly that isnt the case anymore, NS clan scene has become more like a preverted afterthought of something that was once so good. I wish I was playing it up but a lot of teams dont want it to be fun for you, nor do they give poo one about you our your "nub" clan. My clan [FFT] has done more for NS in a week than most ""elite"" clans will ever do for the game they can be good better best at the game, but we fight to make the community fun and enjoyable for the so called "nubs" of NS, we work hard to make the experience for the other 85% of NS players that have yet to see a scrim or a pug enjoyable. so the next time some snide remark crosses your lips about the competition, or the next time you exploit in a pub to rake in that extra kill, remember this post and try to not do it in the next game you decide to ruin. I wish it wasnt the case, but it is, to all you top 10 clans out there when was the last time you said good game, and actually ment it? Kinda funny huh, gg fun competition gg
I don't see how you can flame the truth. But one thing you forgot to add is about clan "drama". I've seen my fair share for the last few weeks, and as a victim of the Venom-TMM split, I know some of the worst of it. Is competition really more important than having fun? I don't see the fun of building a base in a hive. When I see it happening, I do my best to stop it, if it means going in and knifing the hive myself. I like to think that I play honorably, but I see this less and less.
Anyone remember when scripting was frowned upon? How many of you do it now?
<!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Oct 30 2003, 02:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Oct 30 2003, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->STD died like three months ago.
And ignore Squishy, most of us do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They did? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> We've been searching for a server where all the admins call us "f***ing boyf***ing gaya** f***ing s***f***ers" over voicecomm ever since.
And yes, [GoM]Ecclesiastes we DO enjoy playing to win, but we also make sure we never take things SERIOUSLY. To take ANYTHING in life completely seriously is both ludicrous and, eventually, deadly. Always have an ear to the absurd, we say, though never without understanding gravity... but, what the heck, I'm only talking about an online game right now played on pub servers, right?
We're like this because I used to run a clan with a game called Action Quake 2 about five years ago. We were good, damned good, but the entire experience turned me into the most hyperactive, anally-retentive a-hole I've ever seen/been. To plunge yourself into such stressful states while you're supposed to be doing something RECREATIONAL is tragic, at least it is for me and my cohorts. Yes, this is NOT the way it works for many people, and I'm sure most persons enjoy taking their recreation seriously. But we enjoy poking at that seriousness in other people. As if a quick victory means something. As if yelling and swearing at people for not dropping certain items or not building an upgrade chamber to their taste means something. As if threats for kicking and banning mean anything.
Does all this make a bit of sense to you? I hope it does, because I don't want you to think we're out there to ruin people's good fun--in fact it's the direct opposite, really, we want people to RELAX and HAVE fun. I just don't think going bald over an online game is really worth it... I mean, not many people look good when bald do they, honey? Not many people at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Oct 30 2003, 01:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Oct 30 2003, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Oct 30 2003, 02:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Oct 30 2003, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And ignore Squishy, most of us do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ^^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honey, I haven't responded to a thing Squishy has said. Did you read my post?
EDIT: unless you meant the people above me. Oh dear.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited October 2003
Question: If you felt like a clan was getting overly cocky and maybe even talking a little smack about your clan, would it be ok to relocate to their base then, to take them down a peg? Or should it never be done under any circumstances? What if the clan has over 30 members and has been playing ns for 6+ months? I don't really like to do the humiliation thing to new clans but I was hoping to have a little fun this weekend.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Oct 30 2003, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Oct 30 2003, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Question: If you felt like a clan was getting overly cocky and maybe even talking a little smack about your clan, would it be ok to relocate to their base then, to take them down a peg? Or should it never be done under any circumstances? What if the clan has over 30 members and has been playing ns for 6+ months? I don't really like to do the humiliation thing to new clans but I was hoping to have a little fun this weekend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope OSS spawn camps you =)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's true we're asshats. I'll tell my doods to tone it down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be too hard on them - I've always thought of you guys as a cool, easygoing clan.
Fanny - saying things like "we're subversive in a discordian sense" or anything of the sort is like sandpaper on my brain.
Also you needn't worry about GoM not having fun - except for Uzi when we play Euros. For some reason, that really bothers him.
<!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+Oct 30 2003, 05:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Oct 30 2003, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fanny - saying things like "we're subversive in a discordian sense" or anything of the sort is like sandpaper on my brain.
Also you needn't worry about GoM not having fun - except for Uzi when we play Euros. For some reason, that really bothers him. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought the "though I don't know a damn thing about discordianism" would've tipped you off that I was joking! Although it was rather ambiguous, wasn't I? Apologies.
When I say "we never take ANYTHING seriously," take it as literally as humanly possible.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Oct 30 2003, 03:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Oct 30 2003, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Question: If you felt like a clan was getting overly cocky and maybe even talking a little smack about your clan, would it be ok to relocate to their base then, to take them down a peg? Or should it never be done under any circumstances? What if the clan has over 30 members and has been playing ns for 6+ months? I don't really like to do the humiliation thing to new clans but I was hoping to have a little fun this weekend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would hope that your skills as a clan and a sound beating would be enough. Take the moral high ground and just beat the snot out of them. Humilliation has no place in games or sports. Want to take them down a peg? Shotty rush and end the match before they can evolve into anything. Find some way in game to beat them soundly, no need to actively find the most humilliating way to beat anyone, it just breeds contempt. Sore losers are bad, sore winners are far worse. The best way to beat a braggart is to show them how false thier bravaddo is.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It'd be an easy solution to say, "Don't play clans that don't give respect." The only problem is it only seems to be the upper echelon teams that have this problem... hence why you have a problem of new teams disappearing, because if you opt not to play with **** you quickly find youself out of challenging opponents. Which leads us to new clans leaving the leagues to go do something more productive. Yes, I agree with your solution of not playing as being viable, but I'm trying to find one that will keep the NS clan scene active with more than 16 teams. This thread is about why clans die and break up and how to keep them around - not playing doesn't exactly work that well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heres alittle secret im not sure if most of you know. Unless dn` is playing one of the top 5 teams they can probably walk into your hive and kill you within the first 2 minutes of the game. Would you learn anything from that? Would it be respectful?
Teams like ham or pandas when they still played mess around because if they were playing seriously you would already be dead. nuff said.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Oct 30 2003, 11:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Oct 30 2003, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Question: If you felt like a clan was getting overly cocky and maybe even talking a little smack about your clan, would it be ok to relocate to their base then, to take them down a peg? Or should it never be done under any circumstances? What if the clan has over 30 members and has been playing ns for 6+ months? I don't really like to do the humiliation thing to new clans but I was hoping to have a little fun this weekend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whatever floats your boat, but often in competitions I find that beating somone effeciently and thoughroly does the trick. WCIII Upper tier games are much the same (arranged team) and beating an opponent this way will generally put somone in their place.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Heres alittle secret im not sure if most of you know. Unless dn` is playing one of the top 5 teams they can probably walk into your hive and kill you within the first 2 minutes of the game. Would you learn anything from that? Would it be respectful?
Teams like ham or pandas when they still played mess around because if they were playing seriously you would already be dead. nuff said. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please ignore him. He's 14 and just graduated third grade.
Comments
We do bizarre tactics, we actively try to extend last stands as long as possible. Sometimes we start a game specifically to tailor it towards a last stand. We hide. We build giant electric fences for defensive use, only in the most bizarre places.
Of the good few servers we've been banned from, the STD servers stick out the most. We hold the distinction of having individuals banned from both the NS servers AND the DOD servers of STD. I recall all I would ever hear from them over the voice comm was constant swearing and rampant accusations of pedophilic (and sometimes incestuous) tendencies. They were hilarious! We love STD, despite the whole being "completely banned from their servers" thing.
This is us. We'd love to meet you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
STD died like three months ago.
And ignore Squishy, most of us do.
That's why Alpha's so great though. He's got the attitude of two superstars when he's only just one... it's probably to make up for the fact that Digi is a mute. I never so much minded old school GoM's attitude as it was based mainly around Alpha just blurting out painful truths whenever he felt like it and Kirari shouting really loud about stuff he didn't like. Some of the newer additions have attitudes I could care less for and that played a part in why I left to help form TU - but that's a whole nother story.
If that was happening, I must say it would seriously demoralise a new clan. There's no real point to extending a match out like that. Mining a hive is a legit tactic, that is true, but when it is the last hive and the marines obviously have no chance of losing then they should just shotgun the hive and end it.
In fact, I'd say a prime reason it doesn't happen here in Oz is because clan games have time limits that affect the final outcome of the match. Say two clans war, and each side wins as aliens (very common back in 2.0). The side that killed the marines the fastest is the winner. Hence, extending a game out when you are <i>winning</i> is a very bad idea. Extending the game when you're losing can be a viable tactic, although with gren-armoury spams gone it's quite difficult.
Do US clan games have this?
Im not saying it's right for them to toy with you. I know dn` has taught a few clans alot of tricks to the game. But if you want f4 or don't play them don't **** about them being better then you. And for godsakes have some evidence before you call someone a hacker. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
He never ever mentioned anything about cheating. It's disrespectful and just plain stupid of bigger clans to toy with you. Sure, all the big ol' vets love to post great big posts about how the NS community is dying, but besides the pandas -- most of them don't really care. I'm co-leader of a new clan, and the only reason we're still around is probably some sort of devine intervention. The way bigger clans just scrim us, beat us, and continually pressure us (*COUGH* EVOLUTION REVOLUTION *COUGH*) before and after a scrim, our general moral's pretty low.
If toying with new clans are a phase, then I suppose getting beat up and bullied in school is a phase too.
Anyway wth do you want us to do? There are alot of clans eR for instance as you pointed out who can just walk into your hive and kill you anytime they want when playing non upper teir clans.
Earlier today I was asking for a scrim and a clan said no we won't play a top clan. Good for them. Theres your answer.
Stop bitching if you don't like it when ham or ir. or gom or anyone toys with you don't play with them. There are nice clans out there scrim them. And then when your good come back and beat the asshats down. Except for me because you will never be able to beat me. But thats a different matter.
It's not right if someone toys with you but it's not their responsibility. You could become good to stop it. You could surrender to stop it. Or you could just not play **** in the first place. It's not hard. sYn were bitchs when we played them in 1.04 so we refused to play them. Instead we played with X/0 and they taught us alot of cool **** before they started ptin.
Funny though.. i fail to see how this topic continues the earlier thread's at all.
Anyway wth do you want us to do? There are alot of clans eR for instance as you pointed out who can just walk into your hive and kill you anytime they want when playing non upper teir clans.
Earlier today I was asking for a scrim and a clan said no we won't play a top clan. Good for them. Theres your answer.
Stop bitching if you don't like it when ham or ir. or gom or anyone toys with you don't play with them. There are nice clans out there scrim them. And then when your good come back and beat the asshats down. Except for me because you will never be able to beat me. But thats a different matter.
It's not right if someone toys with you but it's not their responsibility. You could become good to stop it. You could surrender to stop it. Or you could just not play **** in the first place. It's not hard. sYn were bitchs when we played them in 1.04 so we refused to play them. Instead we played with X/0 and they taught us alot of cool **** before they started ptin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're missing the point entirely. People are asking why the clan scene is dwindling. Yes a good team can be asshats, because they're good, they've trained and somehow they feel it's now their perogative to do so. You're entirely right that a clan could get good and show these mean old clans that their attitude is wrong, and congrats you've done it, and become one yourself! But that answers the question in itself, true sportsmen find no interest in winning just to prove their point over someone else's, it makes you no better than the next asshat.
Most new clans have no interest in being the next HAMS they just want to play ns - win, lose, tie, regardless they can have fun playing at a higher level with more skilled teams. You don't get it at all. No one is upset that they get pulvarized into bloody pulps, it gives them something to work for, people are upset because the upper echelon clan scene is filled with people who are 13 years old at heart. It's nothing to aspire to, and thus new clans leave to go play something else. Why would I want to train for a year to get as good as the team that spawn camped my hive while a lone siege killed it? To beat them? To feel some sort of online-digital-e-****-satisfaction? If I was that depraved for some sense of accomplishment I'd go out for a jog. I don't think HAMBONE was too far off in his original thread; the NS community lacks any sort of real ethical center, no one competes for the sake of competing (in his example he felt people use scripts abundantly) and in mine I think the veteran clans show little respect to people and that's a big turn off to people.
Funny though.. i fail to see how this topic continues the earlier thread's at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seeing as for the moment most American teams can only play other American teams, and there are less than 20 active ones in CAL I think it's a pertinent problem. I may be wrong, but look at how many teams original signed up for CAL and look how many now sit in "Division Unassigned."
This continues the other topic because the last one got derailed long before the spam. The original arguement wasn't actually if scripts should be allowed or not, but the fact that it shows weakness of character to use them in the first place, and it's that weakness of character among the top clans that's causing the clan scene to dwindle. I furthered the arguement suggesting that the same weakness of character leads the majority of top clans to zoomtards and disrespect up and coming clans shying them away from the NS community. I'm not saying being an **** should be banned (as that makes little to no sense), I'm just curious as to why people are puzzled by clan scene's shrinking when both old and new clans are pointing out the empty moral core at the top.
I'm fairly confident that the Australian is right here (as they usually are.. perceptive bunch them roo-molesters), it is a matter of maturity. If someone gets their 'kicks' out of not besting, but humiliating, an opponent in an internet game nonethelsee, they have to be lacking in Real Life. Maybe they were (are?) picked on in school and want to lash out. *shrug*
And just FYI
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's just like in any game where a team dominates the other, and does silly things like score 10000 runs in one inning of baseball, tons of goals in soccer, whatever. It exists in all competetions, and it also exists in pub play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't happen. In competetive play it would be considered unsportsmanlike (I guess the word on the internet would be 'lame'). If you do it in a league, you're a jerk, if you do it in a friendly game, you don't have any friends.
Seriously. What's wrong with some of you people? What is the *point* of humiliating an opponent that you have defeated? Have you *any* idea how immature and weak that makes you look? I mean how sad are you if you have to rub someones nose in the fact that they lost in a computergame.
Then don't play good clans. It's not that complicated.
You still don't get it. It's not about if the clan is good or not, or winning or losing , it's about respect and the fact that most of the old clans seem incapable of giving it out.
It'd be an easy solution to say, "Don't play clans that don't give respect." The only problem is it only seems to be the upper echelon teams that have this problem... hence why you have a problem of new teams disappearing, because if you opt not to play with **** you quickly find youself out of challenging opponents. Which leads us to new clans leaving the leagues to go do something more productive. Yes, I agree with your solution of not playing as being viable, but I'm trying to find one that will keep the NS clan scene active with more than 16 teams. This thread is about why clans die and break up and how to keep them around - not playing doesn't exactly work that well.
Well NS used to be a fun game... Sadly that isnt the case anymore, NS clan scene has become more like a preverted afterthought of something that was once so good. I wish I was playing it up but a lot of teams dont want it to be fun for you, nor do they give poo one about you our your "nub" clan. My clan [FFT] has done more for NS in a week than most ""elite"" clans will ever do for the game they can be good better best at the game, but we fight to make the community fun and enjoyable for the so called "nubs" of NS, we work hard to make the experience for the other 85% of NS players that have yet to see a scrim or a pug enjoyable. so the next time some snide remark crosses your lips about the competition, or the next time you exploit in a pub to rake in that extra kill, remember this post and try to not do it in the next game you decide to ruin. I wish it wasnt the case, but it is, to all you top 10 clans out there when was the last time you said good game, and actually ment it? Kinda funny huh, gg fun competition gg
Flame away <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
SM5
Anyone remember when scripting was frowned upon? How many of you do it now?
And ignore Squishy, most of us do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They did? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
We've been searching for a server where all the admins call us "f***ing boyf***ing gaya** f***ing s***f***ers" over voicecomm ever since.
And yes, [GoM]Ecclesiastes we DO enjoy playing to win, but we also make sure we never take things SERIOUSLY. To take ANYTHING in life completely seriously is both ludicrous and, eventually, deadly. Always have an ear to the absurd, we say, though never without understanding gravity... but, what the heck, I'm only talking about an online game right now played on pub servers, right?
We're like this because I used to run a clan with a game called Action Quake 2 about five years ago. We were good, damned good, but the entire experience turned me into the most hyperactive, anally-retentive a-hole I've ever seen/been. To plunge yourself into such stressful states while you're supposed to be doing something RECREATIONAL is tragic, at least it is for me and my cohorts. Yes, this is NOT the way it works for many people, and I'm sure most persons enjoy taking their recreation seriously. But we enjoy poking at that seriousness in other people. As if a quick victory means something. As if yelling and swearing at people for not dropping certain items or not building an upgrade chamber to their taste means something. As if threats for kicking and banning mean anything.
Does all this make a bit of sense to you? I hope it does, because I don't want you to think we're out there to ruin people's good fun--in fact it's the direct opposite, really, we want people to RELAX and HAVE fun. I just don't think going bald over an online game is really worth it... I mean, not many people look good when bald do they, honey? Not many people at all.
^^^
^^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honey, I haven't responded to a thing Squishy has said. Did you read my post?
EDIT: unless you meant the people above me. Oh dear.
^^^ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah! Missed that the first time around. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
SpaceMoogle/Asal - we're in #the? always looking for a decent scrim.
I hope OSS spawn camps you =)
Don't be too hard on them - I've always thought of you guys as a cool, easygoing clan.
Fanny - saying things like "we're subversive in a discordian sense" or anything of the sort is like sandpaper on my brain.
Also you needn't worry about GoM not having fun - except for Uzi when we play Euros. For some reason, that really bothers him.
Also you needn't worry about GoM not having fun - except for Uzi when we play Euros. For some reason, that really bothers him. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the "though I don't know a damn thing about discordianism" would've tipped you off that I was joking! Although it was rather ambiguous, wasn't I? Apologies.
When I say "we never take ANYTHING seriously," take it as literally as humanly possible.
Even with that last sentence.
I would hope that your skills as a clan and a sound beating would be enough. Take the moral high ground and just beat the snot out of them. Humilliation has no place in games or sports. Want to take them down a peg? Shotty rush and end the match before they can evolve into anything. Find some way in game to beat them soundly, no need to actively find the most humilliating way to beat anyone, it just breeds contempt. Sore losers are bad, sore winners are far worse. The best way to beat a braggart is to show them how false thier bravaddo is.
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Heres alittle secret im not sure if most of you know. Unless dn` is playing one of the top 5 teams they can probably walk into your hive and kill you within the first 2 minutes of the game. Would you learn anything from that? Would it be respectful?
Teams like ham or pandas when they still played mess around because if they were playing seriously you would already be dead. nuff said.
Whatever floats your boat, but often in competitions I find that beating somone effeciently and thoughroly does the trick. WCIII Upper tier games are much the same (arranged team) and beating an opponent this way will generally put somone in their place.
Teams like ham or pandas when they still played mess around because if they were playing seriously you would already be dead. nuff said. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please ignore him. He's 14 and just graduated third grade.