Bonsai-basing
TempDeleteMe
Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18785Members
Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18785Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The new cheese</div> This is crap. Complete and utter crap.
What is 'bonsai-basing' you ask?
It's this wonderful lame-**** way of defending the entire marine base...
<b>... without the use of a single turret!</b>
How do you do it? Well you see, first the commander builds <b><i>EVERY SINGLE BUILDING</b></i> as CLOSE to a turret factory as he can. This means the entire marine base takes up roughly 2 square feet of space.
Then... he electrifies it.
And just like that, the entire marine base is <b>invulnerable</b> to everything short of an onos. A fade can't even REACH the turret factory to attack it. Most likely he'll get shot to death while attacking the phase gate which is zapping him. This makes alien comebacks <b>impossible</b>. Once they take a heavy hit, it is <b>impossible</b> for them to have any hope of making a comeback. No one can afford onos, and the ONLY thing they can do is throw themselves at marines as a skulk. They get cut down instantly, and they can't even attack the marine base because the entire base is electrified.
<b>Look Flayra, you removed the 'electrify any building' exploit because it meant that they could defend any building without... well... defending it. <i>THIS IS THE EXACT SAME THING</i>. Why not just make EVERY building able to be electrified? Oh, that's right, because you don't WANT that. Yet the ability for a turret factory to shoot THROUGH STRUCTURES and THROUGH MARINES, and able to shoot FAR ENOUGH AWAY that it makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack ANYTHING adjacent to the factory in considered fair?</b> While we're at it, make sieges automatically target aliens as well! C'mon if we're going to intentionally make it so the marine base can be defended with almost no expidenture of resources, let's add these deployable bunkers you keep seeing in S&I? It's 'fair' isn't it?
This is the worst thing since the economy was 'balanced'...
What is 'bonsai-basing' you ask?
It's this wonderful lame-**** way of defending the entire marine base...
<b>... without the use of a single turret!</b>
How do you do it? Well you see, first the commander builds <b><i>EVERY SINGLE BUILDING</b></i> as CLOSE to a turret factory as he can. This means the entire marine base takes up roughly 2 square feet of space.
Then... he electrifies it.
And just like that, the entire marine base is <b>invulnerable</b> to everything short of an onos. A fade can't even REACH the turret factory to attack it. Most likely he'll get shot to death while attacking the phase gate which is zapping him. This makes alien comebacks <b>impossible</b>. Once they take a heavy hit, it is <b>impossible</b> for them to have any hope of making a comeback. No one can afford onos, and the ONLY thing they can do is throw themselves at marines as a skulk. They get cut down instantly, and they can't even attack the marine base because the entire base is electrified.
<b>Look Flayra, you removed the 'electrify any building' exploit because it meant that they could defend any building without... well... defending it. <i>THIS IS THE EXACT SAME THING</i>. Why not just make EVERY building able to be electrified? Oh, that's right, because you don't WANT that. Yet the ability for a turret factory to shoot THROUGH STRUCTURES and THROUGH MARINES, and able to shoot FAR ENOUGH AWAY that it makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack ANYTHING adjacent to the factory in considered fair?</b> While we're at it, make sieges automatically target aliens as well! C'mon if we're going to intentionally make it so the marine base can be defended with almost no expidenture of resources, let's add these deployable bunkers you keep seeing in S&I? It's 'fair' isn't it?
This is the worst thing since the economy was 'balanced'...
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
lol so I do go overboard, but I like making my point abundantly clear. I've been to many a forum, and one thing I learn: People are a stupid as the day is long. They'll find one wrong word in your post and lever it until your post sounds like you're bragging about causing Princess Di's crash.
Anyway, yes, shortening the range would work, but be open for exploit again...
Wouldn't the most obvious solution be to make all buildings have a big 'can't build here' radius around them?
<b>Yes, ALL BUILDINGS.</b>
Even without electrical base defense, bonsai bases are just a total pain in the ****. Skulks and fades can't even get PAST the base without getting stuck everywhere. And when you have all the marines standing on top, stomp proof, gunning everything down... the game gets REAL boring, REAL fast.
Well, if the RT is electrified, you're screwed now, aren't you?
Example:
Marines have suited up in HA and moved out. They take down one of our hives. They had just mowed down two of our onoses. We're in trouble. Now, as skulks, we can either throw ourselves at HA without an POSSIBLE chance of surviving, or we can attack their main base. Keep in mind that no one can afford the time to go onos again, and we only have one fade.
1) A gorge cannot heal nearly fast enough to compensate for the electricity damage.
2) There's a phasegate at base.
3) There's an HA marine standing on top of the turret factory.
Here's a breakdown on what happened.
The HA begins mowing us down. We leap at him and try to kill him.
*ZAP* *ZAP* one skulk goes down. *ZAP* *POW POW POW* A second goes down. The HA succumbs to the damage.
Now what? We can't attack their base itself because going anywhere NEAR it means VERY painful death. We can't even attack the PHASE GATE for the love of god. The turret factory was SO BURIED under the crap you could barely see it. The fade could barely even blink over the mess, it was so big. The only thing we can reach is the comm chair. So we start on that. *WOOSH WOOSH WOOSH* *POW POW POW* (Fade dies, skulk dies, gorge dies) *WOOSH WOOSH WOOSH* "Our hive is dying!"
Now, if we could attack the phase gate without being electrified, we'd have been happy, taking down the phase, then the IPs, all while the marines are far away. Instead, the entire base was literally indestructable.
Also, if you are stuck with one hive (so no bile bomb), an organsied skulk rush directed at the TF will see it destroyed rather fast. Remember, it can only hit 2 targets at once. So 4 or so skulks with regeneration should be able to take it no problem.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Suited up in HA? Taken down a hive? That generally means you have one hive left, whilst the marines have the other 2 + they're at the top of their tech tree. This is GG. The game is lost. A comeback at this point is all but impossible. You were outplayed.
Bonsai bases can be taken out with a good rush. Get defense first (naturally), and if someone has the res, get a regen Fade in there. Regen Fades laugh at electricity. If they run low on health or marines show up, just blink away. Or, get one or two gorges plus some skulks. Get the skulks to take regen and run in there heal spraying. Focus on the IP and you shouldn't have too much trouble. If re-enforcements show up try to take them down. Or, at 2 hives, get a Fade and a gorge. The Fade handles marines that show up or respawn, whilst the gorge merrily bile bombs the base to oblivian. Gorges LOVE bonsai bases, because virtually no building is out of the radius of each bile bomb. Two gorges will devestate that base in mere seconds. Trust me, I do it and I get it used against me.
This really isn't an overpowered tactic nor a hard one to counter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you chew the com chair....didn't I say that already?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) A gorge cannot heal nearly fast enough to compensate for the electricity damage.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously you never had the luxuary of a gorge healing you while chewing a eletrified resource tower (with regeneration of course).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) There's an HA marine standing on top of the turret factory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh no, one HA. Guess what, he can't weld himself. If you have some teamwork and a little wit he'll die quickly. Hint, use regeneration and use the reloading time of his gun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, if we could attack the phase gate without being electrified, we'd have been happy, taking down the phase, then the IPs, all while the marines are far away. Instead, the entire base was literally indestructable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eletrification is a direct counter of skulks/lone skulks. Hence it is available to cover blindspots on turret factories due to problems with the hit boxes on the buildings as well as resource towers (lone skulks). It is like saying you're frustrated because scanning with observertory makes cloaking useless. Guess what, thats what it suppose to be.
So what if you took down their base, If they have succeeded in taking your hive then they would have just relocated there. If not then you wouldn't even need to take out their base.
And I don't really see what you're saying with a fade dying due to eletrification. Unless there are marines guarding it. You can kill a electrifed tf with turrets all around it (with regen) without stopping for breath. Resource towers are another story. A phase gate would be destoryed about the same time as a tf. And lastly if the Majority of the marines have HA and you don't have a single ono (or they die)...It has probably been a loptsided game anyway (either in skill or resources), let it end quickly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you can't attack a base because of electricity from one TF, you are sad. Seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you can't attack a base because of electricity from one TF, you are sad. Seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That said, I also dislike this practice, mostly because it's stupid. It makes it a **** to spawn, a **** to get ammo, and a **** to get off the IP. Furthermore, electricity in no way keeps a skulk from camping the IP or IPs, so if you've got one or two skulks doing that and then your guys outside base die, you can nullify the marine team as an active agent for 60-90 seconds, and that's game over. On a pub, a TF and three turrets costs the same and is just as effective at base defense. Sure the aliens could rush base with 4 skulks and kill the turrets, but when as the last time you ever saw a pub team do this? They hear the pinging from the turrets and they run away.
Funny how people ignore parts of a post to choose a point, eh? Maybe you conveniently didn't read the part about the phase gate we couldn't destroy.
God forbid that the marines actually have some sort of reasonably cheap base defense, eh? That might force the aliens to actually use some smarts to take it down when the marines leave for a do-or-die hive takedown.
...however, if you were to try to fix it, the first step would obviously be to reduce the horrible difference in ranges between the different alien melee attacks. Electricity only reaches so far because it has to be able to match an Onos range in order to defend the building its researched on--but in the process it winds up having far more range than the melee attacks of fades and skulks, allowing a certain "safe range" next to it that is also defended by the electricity.
If you reduce electricity range to shrink this safe range that protects buildings from skulks, you make it completely useless against Onos, who can stand outside the range and safely gore the thing to death.
Now, I am not saying that skulk and fade ranges have to be increased necessarily...but something has to be done to make their attacks closer in range to that of an Onos, so that the difference between the two ranges is less than the width of a building. As soon as you hit that threshhold, voila, you can hit the other buildings next to the electric TF again.
I don't know why someone would whine so excessively about a small and far from overpowered part of the game, except that it seems fashionable to whine about everything nowadays. Anyway... shaddap please.
God forbid that the marines actually have some sort of reasonably cheap base defense, eh? That might force the aliens to actually use some smarts to take it down when the marines leave for a do-or-die hive takedown.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No flaming ment here but its pretty hard to use secondary hive abbilites when there is no second hive.
But what I am wondering is if you can't attack the marines base then wouldn't you try to get your other hives back so you could use bile bombs and the like?.
The only other option I can give you is find some better teammates to play with and make sure that your hives and their positions are heavly guarded so you can continually throw Fade, Onos, lerks and upgraded Georges at them.
God forbid that the marines actually have some sort of reasonably cheap base defense, eh? That might force the aliens to actually use some smarts to take it down when the marines leave for a do-or-die hive takedown.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No flaming ment here but its pretty hard to use secondary hive abbilites when there is no second hive.
But what I am wondering is if you can't attack the marines base then wouldn't you try to get your other hives back so you could use bile bombs and the like?.
The only other option I can give you is find some better teammates to play with and make sure that your hives and their positions are heavly guarded so you can continually throw Fade, Onos, lerks and upgraded Georges at them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if the marines have HMGs, HA, shotguns, what have you, throwing yourselves as skulks at them doesn't really work. So you exploit their next biggest weakness: They're NOT at base. So you go to base as skulks and you can't do any damage because you all die before you get two bites in. At least turrets have BLIND SPOTS. Electricity doesn't discriminate. Just fires through anything in the damn way.
God forbid that the marines actually have some sort of reasonably cheap base defense, eh? That might force the aliens to actually use some smarts to take it down when the marines leave for a do-or-die hive takedown.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No flaming ment here but its pretty hard to use secondary hive abbilites when there is no second hive.
But what I am wondering is if you can't attack the marines base then wouldn't you try to get your other hives back so you could use bile bombs and the like?.
The only other option I can give you is find some better teammates to play with and make sure that your hives and their positions are heavly guarded so you can continually throw Fade, Onos, lerks and upgraded Georges at them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if the marines have HMGs, HA, shotguns, what have you, throwing yourselves as skulks at them doesn't really work. So you exploit their next biggest weakness: They're NOT at base. So you go to base as skulks and you can't do any damage because you all die before you get two bites in. At least turrets have BLIND SPOTS. Electricity doesn't discriminate. Just fires through anything in the damn way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok then I can give you a final option to end it all....Kill as many marines as you can, lose the game and start over.
Build your hives up, create OC walls around the place and when the marines start to scream "hey thats not fair, its cheating" just reply.
"How so daniel-san?".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My god, are you actually saying that when the marines are at the top of their tech tree, with HA, that their base should be weak? If the marines are in such a position, and have plenty of res, they deserve to win and you deserve to lose. You were outplayed.
(i dunno about thrice part but you gotta agree here, thrice is a cool word)
That, Umbra and the fact that it is hard for marines to find structures, I mean since the buildings are all bunched up, it can be easily bilebombed and it's hard for marines to find their precious armory....
give this man a pie then lock the thread please.