Is It True?
TempDeleteMe
Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18785Members
Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18785Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Will distress beacon work like redeem?</div> I just read something that makes my little skulk legs tremble in fear.
ALLEGEDLY the observatories 'distress beacon' will recall ALL marines back to the marine spawn.
This is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
This will mean that marines won't care about defending their base. Just the other day, the marines went out in HA. I, as a fade, hid until they left, then swooped into their undefended base when they were halfway between the hive and base. I took out both IPs and the turret factory. One HA came back, and I killed him (Which surprised me, as he had a shotgun... fades dont' like shotguns). Needless to say, thanks to my heroics, we won the game we were losing. If they had this lame 'They're attacking everyone get back', then the speed of HA means nothing. If they all had LA, they'd have come back a lot faster. They had HA, and between phase gates and this terrible idea, speed will mean NOTHING.
So in my potential situation: The marines leave their baes completely undefended. The commander has a very VERY large nest egg of resources he's sitting on. I attack their base, or even just their observatory, and *WOOSH* all the marines come back, kick my **** in, and leave again.
Furthermore, this, in my opinion, would make shotgun rushes SO COMMON you would have no chance at all. The commander just spends a couple pennies on shotguns, sends his marines, and when he sees that they're running low on health, *WOOSH* they all magically dissapear, rearm, heal, and move out again. And again. And again.
Now what does that sound like? Hmmm it sounds like a combination of movement chambers *AND* redemption. <b>I'm sorry?!</b> I thought the point was to make the teams DIFFERENT. Let's give the aliens siege now, then. And let's give them bilebomb that bounces off walls!
Finally, this makes the observatory too powerful.
1) The observatory negates cloaking around the marine base, which in and of itself is a pile of crap, and I've always disagreed with it. Maybe the hive should disallow the use of phase gates and dropping health around it? Maybe it should magically disable weapon upgrades? UPGRADES SHOULD *NOT* BE ABLE TO BE COUNTERED WITHOUT DIRECT COMMANDER INTERVENTION.
2) Observatories can ping, targeting siege turrets from safety, and showing all cloaked units.
3) Observatories allow phase gates, very VERY cheap, quick to build, and incredibly strong technology that allows marines instant travel.
4) Observatories now give marines redemption AND movement chamber-esque 'emergency travel'.
5) Observatories not only are very SMALL, but they can be shoved in the deepest, darkest corner of hell and still give 3 out of 4 abilities. This is CRAP. The observatory is now SO VITAL that it is going to be a HIGH PRIORITY TARGET. And where do you find most observatories? Usually wedged behind the command chair, where no one can even REACH it.
Maybe this doomsaying is all for naught. Can ANYONE confirm or deny that this horrendously thought-out change will be implemented?
ALLEGEDLY the observatories 'distress beacon' will recall ALL marines back to the marine spawn.
This is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
This will mean that marines won't care about defending their base. Just the other day, the marines went out in HA. I, as a fade, hid until they left, then swooped into their undefended base when they were halfway between the hive and base. I took out both IPs and the turret factory. One HA came back, and I killed him (Which surprised me, as he had a shotgun... fades dont' like shotguns). Needless to say, thanks to my heroics, we won the game we were losing. If they had this lame 'They're attacking everyone get back', then the speed of HA means nothing. If they all had LA, they'd have come back a lot faster. They had HA, and between phase gates and this terrible idea, speed will mean NOTHING.
So in my potential situation: The marines leave their baes completely undefended. The commander has a very VERY large nest egg of resources he's sitting on. I attack their base, or even just their observatory, and *WOOSH* all the marines come back, kick my **** in, and leave again.
Furthermore, this, in my opinion, would make shotgun rushes SO COMMON you would have no chance at all. The commander just spends a couple pennies on shotguns, sends his marines, and when he sees that they're running low on health, *WOOSH* they all magically dissapear, rearm, heal, and move out again. And again. And again.
Now what does that sound like? Hmmm it sounds like a combination of movement chambers *AND* redemption. <b>I'm sorry?!</b> I thought the point was to make the teams DIFFERENT. Let's give the aliens siege now, then. And let's give them bilebomb that bounces off walls!
Finally, this makes the observatory too powerful.
1) The observatory negates cloaking around the marine base, which in and of itself is a pile of crap, and I've always disagreed with it. Maybe the hive should disallow the use of phase gates and dropping health around it? Maybe it should magically disable weapon upgrades? UPGRADES SHOULD *NOT* BE ABLE TO BE COUNTERED WITHOUT DIRECT COMMANDER INTERVENTION.
2) Observatories can ping, targeting siege turrets from safety, and showing all cloaked units.
3) Observatories allow phase gates, very VERY cheap, quick to build, and incredibly strong technology that allows marines instant travel.
4) Observatories now give marines redemption AND movement chamber-esque 'emergency travel'.
5) Observatories not only are very SMALL, but they can be shoved in the deepest, darkest corner of hell and still give 3 out of 4 abilities. This is CRAP. The observatory is now SO VITAL that it is going to be a HIGH PRIORITY TARGET. And where do you find most observatories? Usually wedged behind the command chair, where no one can even REACH it.
Maybe this doomsaying is all for naught. Can ANYONE confirm or deny that this horrendously thought-out change will be implemented?
Comments
I was reading in a post that in 2.1 it summons all marines back to base, not just dead ones. As for the observatory itself, I've always felt that it's too important a structure, and conferrs WAY too many abilities for it to be able to be shoved in a corner like an arms lab.
If I read it correctly, it sounds like it simply makes more of a decision for the commander, since the marines lose equipment. If you read it correctly, it does sound too powerful.
So far it works well, and is a welcome addition to 2.1.
TempDeleteMe: It sounds like you don't like this idea, but don't complain too much. That is the type of thing that will cause them to prevent us from viewing the changelog.
So please, just SUYF, and call it a day.
Howhow, I think it's a great idea and can't wait to use it in real games.
But I'd like to see some changes on the alien side too. Making the chambers more viable at any hive would be a good start. Enough with balancing the marine abilities, they're getting it too good already.
Don't worry to much about this beacon change. It's still hardwired to only one location and can actually be a bad decision by a comm to use. If they want to make relocation a less viable strategy, then why not let them. And if the Shottie rush becomes so much more effective, well then they'll increase the cost of Shotties or the Observatory. It's no big loss.
TempDeleteMe: It sounds like you don't like this idea, but don't complain too much. That is the type of thing that will cause them to prevent us from viewing the changelog. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, I wanted to know if it was true, and secondly, I brought up major balancing issues that are going to be a problem.
BTW: What brought this silly idea up? Not once have I seen a single complaint that 'My mareens cant majikally teleport back to baes and killl teh alieens that r attaking!'
BTW 2: This might be a bad idea for the commander, if say, the aliens stage an attack on the marine base to summon all the marines back to base to stop them from attacking a hive, but this will be pointless if Flayra doesn't solve the Bonsai-Base issue.
The devs see a need for something and they do it. They do testing with a stable base of beta testers, vets, and beta servers. And only rarely does the roar of complaints coming from the forums ever change their mind. So my advice to you is to just accept it and adapt.
The game didn't get this good because of any of the whining coming from the forums. That should tell you something... And never, NEVER go off on beta changes. It does absolutely no good.
Don't complain about beta changes or we will lose the right to read the changelogs. No one wants to hear it.
Don't complain about beta changes or we will lose the right to read the changelogs. No one wants to hear it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silly as in:
1) It's awkward and goofy. Marines dont' carry phase gates on them. If they did, why not teleport them anywhere else?
2) It's a blatant infringement on alien turf: Redemption. 'Damn, all that res I invested into an HA train is getting devoured because I was too stupid to scan ahead. Thank god the developers allow me to correct my stupidity at the expense of allowing the aliens to actually win' (Distress becaons)
3) Why do it? I don't see any need for it, and I doubt there will be much COMMON use for it. Maybe using it as a commander redemption sometimes, but many situations will be: Siege hive or redemp to base to save it. What's more important? Well, the base can always be repaired.
Don't take number 3 as me saying: "no one will ever use it."
I'm saying it's TOO SPECIALIZED an ability for it to have been even WORTH implementing.
Either way, I hope distress beacon costs a LOT more to use now.
What does this mean to your complaints? First, it means its very unlike redemption, in that a wounded marine being chased down by ambushing aliens will almost always be killed before the Beacon goes off, even if he is in HA.
Second, it means that when you as that rambo fade hear the beacon going off, you have several seconds warning to get out of the room--and if you don't because your 2 bars away from killing some important structure, thats your decision, and you can suffer the consequences. Just don't complain that they took you by surprise.
-Comm panic: The aliens, when finding their hive under heavy assault, try and defend it as well as possible... and meanwhile a couple of roaming skulks assault the marine base, suddenly leaving the commander with a choice: abort the assault on the hive and call EVERYONE back to base instantly, leaving their forward assault base (if any) undefended, or let the home base get pounded on. Sure, he can phase a few guys back... but they can do this already. If you panic a commander into recalling his troops, it buys the aliens a few calm seconds at base.
-"Armour" assault (thank you, John Steakley): Don't YOU hate losing the marine spawn area? Finding yourself tucked away somewhere in a different corner of the map? It's not necessarily debilitating but it's kind of humiliating, in a way, and a lot of marines don't fight as well without that sort of comfortable "start" point to go from. Wanna get it back? Arm up your HA train, get them all good to go, give them a countdown, and then hit the recall... and your spawn point suddenly has an entire squad of heavily armed marines standing in it, mowing down everything. Good fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was reading in a post that in 2.1 it summons all marines back to base, not just dead ones. As for the observatory itself, I've always felt that it's too important a structure, and conferrs WAY too many abilities for it to be able to be shoved in a corner like an arms lab. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you, sir, are a kind and patient man
Shame there's not much motivation to get the MS back outside of the 1 res node and the safety of any future Beacons =/
So do hives......
Now thats a scary idea.
cant wait <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that with the new distress beacon's functionality being changed so drastically that its name is no longer appropriate - something like 'tactical recall' would be more suitable.