When a person is hit by a fast moving thing, he is pushed back, go get yourself punched if you dont believe me, I love knockback, and dont mind if it takes that little bit more skill to kill after i knock someone back.
And the onos getting knockedback from a knife... well anything getting stabbed is going to move itself instinctavely away from where it happening, no matter how large or feirce it may be.
I like being concise <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've never had a problem with it. I've never even noticed it's there. I guess it just adds to the feel of the game, and in that sense I like it (you know, a feature that's subtle enough to be good but not overtly noticable).
I think that only big "pushing" or blowing type of attacks should have knockback. For example onos hitting marine with tusk or skulk doing xenocide.
But slashing damage (that cuts trough) or biting damage that is supposed to crush or hurt you (remember dog biting you?) that shouldnt move opponent.
Slicing trough doesn't make opponent jump away, it cuts opponent in pieces. I mean knifing here and fade slashing.
It is fun to see aliens/marines jump when they die tough. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Oct 23 2003, 07:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Oct 23 2003, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When a person is hit by a fast moving thing, he is pushed back, go get yourself punched if you dont believe me, I love knockback, and dont mind if it takes that little bit more skill to kill after i knock someone back.
And the onos getting knockedback from a knife... well anything getting stabbed is going to move itself instinctavely away from where it happening, no matter how large or feirce it may be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wth?
Realism wise, knockback makes no sense.
When something bites you, I hate to break it to ya, but you don't go "flying" away from them... you actually get held down in place by nasty insisciors.
Like someone else said:
Skulk = no knockback, marines should rely on good aim not something random and slightly stupid like knockback Fade = Little to no knockback Onos = Has knockback, but sends them about as far as a skulk does now (an onos will still be able to hunt you down easily), Flay fix the bug that involves someone behind a structure or another marine being sent 100 yards, it's funny but adds nothing to gameplay.
When you have HA, nothing knocks you back.
When you have JP, everything has increased knockback (including skulks). This will give a slight boost to JP which is good overall. It also makes sense, as JP marines already take no fall damage, them being more menuverable.
Knockback is all well and good, fits in with the game etc, however its: a) A little excessive, and b) A little buggy.
By excessive i mean, too powerfull, hence frustrating / annoying ? By buggy i mean, flying 50m backwards to a skulk which xenosides a fair distance away from where you're standing, or behind a structure etc. (ie, where you take no damage from the xeno attack).
Knockback by gore and xeno rocks. I love it. What I dont love is when you take MASSIVE knockback <b>without</b> damage. I have had a skulk xeno right next to me, or a few feet away, I get sent like 20 feet across a room, but no damage?? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Jabba The Hunt+Oct 23 2003, 01:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jabba The Hunt @ Oct 23 2003, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> knocked the marines back a bit (maybe 5-10 feet) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It already does that and more...
<!--QuoteBegin--Kar-aK+Oct 23 2003, 02:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kar-aK @ Oct 23 2003, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Jabba The Hunt+Oct 23 2003, 01:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jabba The Hunt @ Oct 23 2003, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> knocked the marines back a bit (maybe 5-10 feet) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It already does that and more...
- Kar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If thats a 2.01 thing then I'm afraid I havn't played that yet, stupid university not getting the internet sorted out yet <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd love to see the bite's knockback gone. After all it's a bite , not a punch from the skulks rubber snot (as it sometimes feels like). The force-on-impact arguments still don't justify a knockback: In this case marines should be knocked off their feet, lying on the floor helplessly (which is something we won't see implemented) and not being bounced out of the danger zone. Knockback on being leaped at is rarely seen (though a knockback seems more reasonable here), as the marines don't go into permajump-bounce-mode like they do when they see a skulk approaching. The same goes for slash (fade) to a certain amount, but for onos' gore a knockback seems ok due to the way the gore attack is supposed to work (never tried that on a rhino to see how far i'd be flying, I admit).
<!--QuoteBegin--Mythr1l+Oct 23 2003, 11:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mythr1l @ Oct 23 2003, 11:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just think how much the game would be ruined if knockback was removed, its already so easy to play as alien, but imagine if the marines didnt moove when you bit them, would basically mean that untill marines got lvl 1 armour u wouldnt be able to react if a skulk bit you from behind. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's kinda the whole point of getting behind them, you get a preemptive attack, and can pwn the marine because he wasn't keeping watch enough. Besides, where's your teammate to cover your back? 1 on 1, the marine SHOULD lose in close quarters, ESPECIALLY from behind.
antifreezeThe guy with the goods!Join Date: 2003-05-12Member: 16232Members, Constellation
Knockback is fine appart from with onos. Its mental, the target shoots accross a room when you attck them. Does this count for xeno aswell, you get knock beck from that even in a different room. and that i hate
The only Knockback that really annoys me is skulkbite. The real issue is bhopping off the knockback. Knockback was reduced (at least it seems that way) in the current version and bhing was nerfed, and I haven't had the chance to test if you can still get that bhop boost from knockback so I can't say for sure. For the higher lifefroms it isn't really an issue but for a skulk it can be make or break. If it was removed from the skulk, I'd be happy. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
For a Fade or an Onos, I do not think it is that much of a big deal. However, for a Skulk, it's much different. All the Marine needs is that extra push backwards so he can slam 50 bullets into your face before you can bite him again. And, with my very slow internet (Burn Verizon!), it's even worse.
I am divided on the knockback issue. I am a bit worried that if it is removed skulks will become vastly powerful langolier type beasts devouring anything in their paths. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing. However I am worried about the other balance issues it will bring up. (beefed up LA marines?)
Nothing infuriated me more as a skulk than sneaking up on a marine only to launch him across the room like superman throwing a temper tantrum. If anything, I would think the lack of an ankle would cause a little less spring in the marines step.
As an Onos knockback is more than appropriate. Watching marines get tossed like little plastic soldiers in the sandbox battlefield stirs an emotion in me, or was that just the korean I had for lunch?
I agree with keeping it for Onos and sieging the skulk knockback to death <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Oct 23 2003, 10:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 23 2003, 10:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]skulks will become vastly powerful langolier type beasts devouring anything in their paths.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice analogy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (besides, a langolier model would probably better fit the current skulk hitbox - but that's stuff for another thread, i guess...)
My choices would be (or things I would like to see regarding knockbacks) ... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> leap - a few feet (perhaps basied on run/jump) Bite - not realy any (perhaps 1 foot or so to reflect marine instinct/reaction to bite)
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> errr.... perhaps bile bomb for a small amount but no damage lol (could be usefull?)
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> swipe - small amount (2 feet or so) rocket - direct hit (4-6 feet) rocket - splash nothing (no push back)
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> charge - pushed aside a few feet or carried along after impact lol (sees vision of onos running through rine base like a steam train and taking marine to his doom) gore - fliped away, much like it is now tbh (but say on a 1 in 3 hit something like that - not everytime) If you have ever seen a bull gore somone or an elephant having a bad day with handler you would know it needs to be in there (I love the internet) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
GL's, mines, seige also have knockbacks even on marines (but damage from them staying as is now, so that they feel force of blast but not pain due to nanowhatsitthingymebobbles )
There just the ones that seem to make sence from a game point of view (to me) however some of them may have big impact on game itself. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
In case you havnt guessed I think it should be in there but done in a way that reflects the cause of the knockback <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
for clan play or pubs like the hamptons, this will help balance the early stages of the game, when the 2nd hive is still going up and you have no fades. so hard to kill ppl as skulk offensively :[ The only chance you get is if you have 3rd lvl cara and they have lvl 0 weapons, and you can bhop REALLY well. and most clanners jump constantly while shooting skulks precisely for the chance to be knocked back and shoot the skulk while he can't bite again. for pub play this will make being a marine even harder for hbps and noobs who can't aim... It took some thought, but I think it should be removed for skulk at least, and onos gore needs some work obviously
I like it for the most part with the onos (it makes it feel approprietely powerful), and it's okay for xeno, but it's awful for anything else.
Suggested small improvements: make the onos gore knockback more consistant between jumping/standing marines, and tone down the xeno push just a tad (so you don't get instantly glued to the opposite wall, but rather go flying a bit).
-Animals the size of skulk will not throw you. (In real life they CAN knock you over, but they wont throw you if they bite. In fact the bites of dogs and wild cats of that size are designed to drag down the opponent.)
-A man my size can indeed knock me back, and if a human in a fist fight can knock me back a foot on a direct hit, I imagine a fade could do a lot worse.
-Finally, I'v been kicked by a horse. I can say.. yep LOTS of knockback. Can't even imagine what a rhino could do!
(If the knockback is removed for everyone. I think we will need a new animation of the Onos stepping on the marines toes just before he gores!) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I despise knockback. I suppose I'm just not as leet as Mythr1l, and I bow in awe to his incredible skillz of flaming and bragging, but why on earth should a marine be capable of escaping from a skulk at short range? Keep them away, use teamwork and medpacks to stay alive in an ambush. I'd also really like to see a fix for the xeno and gore knockback bugs if they are kept. Playing on mineshaft, with limited resources trying to come back from three hives and having myself chucked into a wall and killed by worldspawn (no vertical drop, just being hurled into a wall and killed) was irritating. Especially since I was wearing HA at the time.
For those arguing that it should be in because of realism, think about this. If an onos runs directly into you, without attacking, shouldn't you be thrown back quite a distance? You aren't. There goes realism. I realize that the charge attack does this, but it should happen automatically, right?
I'm not saying to actually implement this. I am saying that realism doesn't really apply here.
Comments
And the onos getting knockedback from a knife... well anything getting stabbed is going to move itself instinctavely away from where it happening, no matter how large or feirce it may be.
Swipe should have minimal knockback.
Gore should have reduced knockback.
Knife should only knockback skulks and lerks.
I like being concise <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keep the other attacks knockback in, but maybe reduce the knmockback for Gore, right now it's rather well....unbelievable
But then again an Onos is an alien :/
For example onos hitting marine with tusk or skulk doing xenocide.
But slashing damage (that cuts trough) or biting damage that is supposed to
crush or hurt you (remember dog biting you?) that shouldnt move opponent.
Slicing trough doesn't make opponent jump away, it cuts opponent in pieces.
I mean knifing here and fade slashing.
It is fun to see aliens/marines jump when they die tough. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And the onos getting knockedback from a knife... well anything getting stabbed is going to move itself instinctavely away from where it happening, no matter how large or feirce it may be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wth?
Realism wise, knockback makes no sense.
When something bites you, I hate to break it to ya, but you don't go "flying" away from them... you actually get held down in place by nasty insisciors.
Like someone else said:
Skulk = no knockback, marines should rely on good aim not something random and slightly stupid like knockback
Fade = Little to no knockback
Onos = Has knockback, but sends them about as far as a skulk does now (an onos will still be able to hunt you down easily), Flay fix the bug that involves someone behind a structure or another marine being sent 100 yards, it's funny but adds nothing to gameplay.
When you have HA, nothing knocks you back.
When you have JP, everything has increased knockback (including skulks). This will give a slight boost to JP which is good overall. It also makes sense, as JP marines already take no fall damage, them being more menuverable.
as another thought it would be cool if the onos gore knocked the marines back a bit (maybe 5-10 feet)
a) A little excessive, and
b) A little buggy.
By excessive i mean, too powerfull, hence frustrating / annoying ?
By buggy i mean, flying 50m backwards to a skulk which xenosides a fair distance away from where you're standing, or behind a structure etc. (ie, where you take no damage from the xeno attack).
- Kar
Keep knockback, make knockback damage.
It already does that and more...
- Kar
It already does that and more...
- Kar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If thats a 2.01 thing then I'm afraid I havn't played that yet, stupid university not getting the internet sorted out yet <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
After all it's a bite , not a punch from the skulks rubber snot (as it sometimes feels like).
The force-on-impact arguments still don't justify a knockback: In this case marines should be knocked off their feet, lying on the floor helplessly (which is something we won't see implemented) and not being bounced out of the danger zone.
Knockback on being leaped at is rarely seen (though a knockback seems more reasonable here), as the marines don't go into permajump-bounce-mode like they do when they see a skulk approaching.
The same goes for slash (fade) to a certain amount, but for onos' gore a knockback seems ok due to the way the gore attack is supposed to work (never tried that on a rhino to see how far i'd be flying, I admit).
That's kinda the whole point of getting behind them, you get a preemptive attack, and can pwn the marine because he wasn't keeping watch enough.
Besides, where's your teammate to cover your back? 1 on 1, the marine SHOULD lose in close quarters, ESPECIALLY from behind.
However, for a Skulk, it's much different. All the Marine needs is that extra push backwards so he can slam 50 bullets into your face before you can bite him again. And, with my very slow internet (Burn Verizon!), it's even worse.
As a skulk I hate it.
^^Clear enough?
I am divided on the knockback issue. I am a bit worried that if it is removed skulks will become vastly powerful langolier type beasts devouring anything in their paths. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing. However I am worried about the other balance issues it will bring up. (beefed up LA marines?)
Nothing infuriated me more as a skulk than sneaking up on a marine only to launch him across the room like superman throwing a temper tantrum. If anything, I would think the lack of an ankle would cause a little less spring in the marines step.
As an Onos knockback is more than appropriate. Watching marines get tossed like little plastic soldiers in the sandbox battlefield stirs an emotion in me, or was that just the korean I had for lunch?
Nice analogy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(besides, a langolier model would probably better fit the current skulk hitbox - but that's stuff for another thread, i guess...)
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
leap - a few feet (perhaps basied on run/jump)
Bite - not realy any (perhaps 1 foot or so to reflect marine instinct/reaction to bite)
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> errr....
perhaps bile bomb for a small amount but no damage lol (could be usefull?)
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> errrr.... nope
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
swipe - small amount (2 feet or so)
rocket - direct hit (4-6 feet)
rocket - splash nothing (no push back)
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
charge - pushed aside a few feet or carried along after impact lol (sees vision of onos running through rine base like a steam train and taking marine to his doom)
gore - fliped away, much like it is now tbh (but say on a 1 in 3 hit something like that - not everytime) If you have ever seen a bull gore somone or an elephant having a bad day with handler you would know it needs to be in there (I love the internet) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
GL's, mines, seige also have knockbacks even on marines (but damage from them staying as is now, so that they feel force of blast but not pain due to nanowhatsitthingymebobbles )
There just the ones that seem to make sence from a game point of view (to me) however some of them may have big impact on game itself. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
In case you havnt guessed I think it should be in there but done in a way that reflects the cause of the knockback <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Suggested small improvements: make the onos gore knockback more consistant between jumping/standing marines, and tone down the xeno push just a tad (so you don't get instantly glued to the opposite wall, but rather go flying a bit).
-A man my size can indeed knock me back, and if a human in a fist fight can knock me back a foot on a direct hit, I imagine a fade could do a lot worse.
-Finally, I'v been kicked by a horse. I can say.. yep LOTS of knockback. Can't even imagine what a rhino could do!
(If the knockback is removed for everyone. I think we will need a new animation of the Onos stepping on the marines toes just before he gores!) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not saying to actually implement this. I am saying that realism doesn't really apply here.