One way is using vertex manipulation (I don't advise it though, many many errors - invalid brushes) or clipping. You simply create a cube or some other primitive object and clip it until it looks at least decent. Eventually, you put together various shapes and get realistic looking rocks (as realistic as they can be in HL, that is...). Remember, the secret word is: experimenting. Good luck! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
vertex manipulation isn't nearly as bad as the evil carve tool, but if you don't understand it it can be.
There are a few things that if you avoid doing them with vertex manipulation will let you avoid most of the invalid brushes.
1 Don't have more then two vertexs on a single plane. In simple words, if you have a house like shape (triangle on a box) and you move the point of the triangle so that it is on the same plane (line) as two of the box's corners, you will get an error. To fix this, drag the corner vertexs to one of the box's corners and merge them.
2 Make sure you don't make your brush concave. This is where most of the vertex manipulation errors happen. A concave figure means you can draw a line from two points that are inside the figure, and that line will at some point leave the area of the figure. For example, a circle is not concave, but packman (with his mouth open) is, because you can draw a line from the top part of his mouth, to the bottem part of his mouth, and part of the line wont be inside the shape.
If you don't understand this, it's probably my fault, and you should just stick to the clip tool. You'll get less errors that way.
Well <a href='http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/tutorial.php?id=24' target='_blank'>HEre's</a> a little tutorial on how the cliffs in the Counter-Strike map cs_siege were made.
Good luck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Machiavelli+Oct 18 2003, 11:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Oct 18 2003, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To fix this, drag the corner vertexs to one of the box's corners and merge them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Be very careful with this, as it often merge properly and you are left with a bunch of invalid brush vertices that you wont be able to select again and will give you compiling headaches...
Personally, I'm a big believer in the Snarkpit solution, although one should be very careful and try to match as many vertexes as possible up with each other to reduce planecounts.
triangle terrain (a la snarkpit) also makes a great method for roughing up your hive location floors a bit. the effect reminds me of "feedwater control" hive in bast. you may want to retain some ground suitable for structures though
that's gonna give him horrible bsp cuts on the ground <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
that type of cliff construction appears as if it was meant to be outdoors, or at least in a place where players couldnt get to the top where it would likely meet a skybox. NS = jps and skulks who think in 3d, so unless its gonna be sexy cliffs outside like hera, that method may not be as suitable. just a thought
I'm a bit slow atm, my computer is acting... weird <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A quick tutorial explaining terrain creation/manipulation: <a href='http://cynickscorner.8m.net/Tutorial/terrain/' target='_blank'>http://cynickscorner.8m.net/Tutorial/terrain/</a>
Needs a bit more work but I need to sort my computer before I can consider doing any extra.
Question One: Who uses the clipping mode? I don't, so is it worth doing a tutorial to teach others instead?
Question Two: Does anyone know why my computer is deleting files that I saved and restoring files that I deleted? Doesn't happen often, very rarely in fact, but i'm sure I am saving and deleting my files... I had this tutorial as well as another finished and saved, but the files are gone and had to redo them <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I have the latest Norton-Virus and Norton-Firewall so ya know.
As for these cliffs being designed for players who can't fly or climb walls, don't forget that these tutorials are all for non-halflife mods where everybody just walks around.
Just simply adapt the tutorial for your needs. For instance instead of making perfect triangles, try stretching them up so that to triangles together form a very tall rectangle. If for instance you double the height of your triangles but leave them the same width you can effectively double the height of your cliff wall and get the exact same r_speeds.
However that being said, this terrain method would probably better used for realistic rock tunnels rather than out door cliff areas in NS (unless the outdoor cliff area was on the other side of unbreakable glass and players wouldn't be able to reach there). Using clip to stop lerks/jps/fades/skulks is generally frowned upon because it doesn't make sense storywise. If you can some how explain why a player can't go any higher then it's OK (ie a giant deadly fan at the top of an open ventilation shaft, or a force field, or AA turrets that shoot anything that goes above a certain height... Well func_tanks are broken in NS so that last one would prolly require some tricky trigger_hurt placement...)
Comments
There are a few things that if you avoid doing them with vertex manipulation will let you avoid most of the invalid brushes.
1 Don't have more then two vertexs on a single plane. In simple words, if you have a house like shape (triangle on a box) and you move the point of the triangle so that it is on the same plane (line) as two of the box's corners, you will get an error. To fix this, drag the corner vertexs to one of the box's corners and merge them.
2 Make sure you don't make your brush concave. This is where most of the vertex manipulation errors happen. A concave figure means you can draw a line from two points that are inside the figure, and that line will at some point leave the area of the figure. For example, a circle is not concave, but packman (with his mouth open) is, because you can draw a line from the top part of his mouth, to the bottem part of his mouth, and part of the line wont be inside the shape.
If you don't understand this, it's probably my fault, and you should just stick to the clip tool. You'll get less errors that way.
Good luck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Be very careful with this, as it often merge properly and you are left with a bunch of invalid brush vertices that you wont be able to select again and will give you compiling headaches...
This one is really easy.
vertex manipulation + triangles > skewing
just a thought
A quick tutorial explaining terrain creation/manipulation:
<a href='http://cynickscorner.8m.net/Tutorial/terrain/' target='_blank'>http://cynickscorner.8m.net/Tutorial/terrain/</a>
Needs a bit more work but I need to sort my computer before I can consider doing any extra.
Question One:
Who uses the clipping mode? I don't, so is it worth doing a tutorial to teach others instead?
Question Two:
Does anyone know why my computer is deleting files that I saved and restoring files that I deleted?
Doesn't happen often, very rarely in fact, but i'm sure I am saving and deleting my files... I had this tutorial as well as another finished and saved, but the files are gone and had to redo them <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have the latest Norton-Virus and Norton-Firewall so ya know.
Thanks in Advanx,
cyNickal.
Just simply adapt the tutorial for your needs. For instance instead of making perfect triangles, try stretching them up so that to triangles together form a very tall rectangle. If for instance you double the height of your triangles but leave them the same width you can effectively double the height of your cliff wall and get the exact same r_speeds.
However that being said, this terrain method would probably better used for realistic rock tunnels rather than out door cliff areas in NS (unless the outdoor cliff area was on the other side of unbreakable glass and players wouldn't be able to reach there). Using clip to stop lerks/jps/fades/skulks is generally frowned upon because it doesn't make sense storywise. If you can some how explain why a player can't go any higher then it's OK (ie a giant deadly fan at the top of an open ventilation shaft, or a force field, or AA turrets that shoot anything that goes above a certain height... Well func_tanks are broken in NS so that last one would prolly require some tricky trigger_hurt placement...)