Its only going to die if all the people with wit pull out and leave it to flounder.
If people muck in and get their hands dirty, then it'll survive. There'll be a period where the new players have to settle in, but without new players there would be no mod. You need growth, and growth means noobs. Now, you either muck in and help shape them, or you wimp out and hide on a private server. After a while, if you've mucked in then they've learned, or left. If we don't muck in, then they learn nothing, and the servers end up full of smacktard players who scare everyone off.
I also love dropping sensory and laughing myself silly as the onos asks me what it's meant to do with sensory, and I ask it what I'm meant to do on 2 rts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I like gorging too, but when you are so used to gorging (as in it's all you ever do), such that your auto upgrade in your head without thinking is the gorge upgrade, I find it to be sad. Us gorges should be able to do other stuff too. Yes I do know that being a good gorge is a hard thing to master, but when I am conscious and in heavy gaming mode I make a pretty damn good gorge, but it's still fun to be able to do other things every once and awhile. I am a gorge during clan matches because it is something that I am very good at, I think I can easily say it is the alien lifeform I am best at, but when I go pubbing I wish I could get some nice hard core blink swipe fade action going on, or some nice spore spaming, just something different. *sigh* Anyway, if everyone tries to incorporate more teamwork into pub play, then I think NS pubbing would be a much more fun experience for us all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. I have been tempted to drop sensory for some games too, so that the onos are like omg noob, and are screwed, it's funny but llama like so I normally feel bad, and don't do it. You're pretty much just guaranteering yourself a loss anyway if you're the only one building and everyone else is res whoring. Best way to deal with res whoring (imo), is when I gorge in the beg. I only drop rts, then I figure when people realize it's 10 minutes into the game and gasp everyone wants to go onos, and there is only one hive, and no upgrades, it forces someone else to go gorge. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Swift Idiot+Oct 18 2003, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Oct 18 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL, they went to the Redphive DoD server. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Buh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Switching to steam was the worst decision for R5. Should have stuck with won for as long as possible...
There's no way pub play will ever leave it's terrible state. Ever since 1.0, people here have argued that the "community" will learn as time goes by.... cuz NS has a steep learning curve. And thus, the game will enter some kind of nirvana where 90% of games are very competitive instead of freakishly lopsided (and thus boring). Well guess what! It hasn't happened, and won't happen! No multiplayer FPS/RTS hybrid can possibly succeed if 99% of the actions are to be done by human players. :-P The solution is to give up and jump off a cliff. Or play some other game. I dunno, take a pick.
To be honest every bad pub game I've ever played has been pretty easy to figure out why. Clanners, now I don't hate clanners (though some clanners are incredibly boring people) I'm just amazed at every time I look and see 16 people in a game and only 10 have actually picked a side while 6 are usually sitting in the alien choice area(hey I'm not saying anything but I generally don't see many "skilled" players sitting in the marine area) waiting for the poor schmuck new player who's still just happy to play the game jump in random team choice. If your not in tourney mode there shouldn't be a choice between what side your on just a random room so whatever team your on you have to deal with it. Most people will hate this idea but it would drastically improve things on the public servers because A. You wont have the clanners all going alien (we all know alien is the easiest to **** off new players with) B. Kinda equals out the skill on both teams and makes it a bit more enjoyable for the people who are casual players.
Im also one of the people who like to gorge, although its probably because I dont really like playing as an onos <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . I the servers I play on some of the better players will actually stay gorge for the majority of the game. On the occasions when Im the only gorge I get redemption (if I can) and look for where my team is attacking and drop some OC or DC for em (that on top of getting all the heal requests), hopefully I get some kills along the way (and then I can build more oc <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Basically Im a gorge because Im a team player (and I like the gorge), the only time I will hoard res at the start would be because Im saving up for the second hive (although lately other people have been doing that ending up with me having 50-60 res to spend on chambers).
Man, you've got to love the perma-gorge, I think it has to be on of the best roles in the game. The problem is most people think being a perma-gorge is a boring, "I gotta stay at the hive and heal anybody that comes by while setting up oc's!" role. This, of course, is false.
Battle gorge is truely a hell of alot of fun. Not only do you get alot of laughs when you ninja a marine with your super gorge, you also play the biggest role in some of the main assaults with your mad health spray spaming skillz. You don't know half the fun of being a gorge until you watch 3 marines drop to their deaths' in front of you because of the "health" spray, it's really one of the most underated weapons in NS.
As far as NS pub play, I have noticed a slight drop-off, and being a pub-only player I do get around the servers alot, but I think all the threads claiming NS pub play is "In a sorry state." or that "NS is dying!1!!!1!" are exagerated alot. The loss of the NS redphive servers was pretty bad, wish they would've stayed on WON, but the loss of them isn't the end of the NS community. Try Xzilen's, Voogru, The Hamptons, or [CoFR]'s servers if your looking for some great teamplay. I almost always have memorable games at those servers.
I'm actually in favor of a no-choice non-tourney team selection. In fact, I've always jumped in the 'random team' portal, even back in 1.0 (when there was no auto-balance). I've felt that way about CS as well, but here it's doubly important.
Bit of a shame when someone who spam lerk and racks up insane kills at the cost of the team effort gets an artificially high ranking...
The only real solution is for players to regulate themselves on the matter - autobalancing just means they'll leave and go elsewhere - not the goal we'd like.
As it happens, I'm having a lot more fun as marine now, although Comms rarely listen to my tactical genius (Ok then comm, totally ignore the wide open vent that we can siege from).
I don't end up sitting in the alien portal for any reason to do with players or balance... I just like being aliens in any game I play <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If I join a game in progress and the aliens have more players I'll jump in the marine portal every time with a sigh, if the teams are equal I'll jump in the random, but at the start of a new map you can bet your sweet bee-hind I'll be sprinting to that alien portal every time XD
bad pubs? find ONE pub you really like and frequent it *hoot*sig*hoot*.
don't wanna do that? you can always use gorge-guilt. that's basically guilting everyone to go gorge and AT LEAST drop an RT. it usually works.
i.e.
"I've already dropped TWO Rts, hey SupaSnipaDudeAwesomeMan, what have you dropped?"
"Don't be a noob MrManKewlGuy, drop an RT or we'll lose!!"
etc etc etc.
just something to think about.
and i'm having a heckuva a time seeding a server, where are all the players <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
if yer on the westcoast, come to our servers around 7pm PST, we'll get some good team work games going <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Necrosis+Oct 19 2003, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Oct 19 2003, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also love dropping sensory and laughing myself silly as the onos asks me what it's meant to do with sensory, and I ask it what I'm meant to do on 2 rts.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Too funny, and sadly true.
<!--QuoteBegin--xl-cow+Oct 21 2003, 06:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xl-cow @ Oct 21 2003, 06:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Servers auto select based on a players past ranking, ranking not only by fragging but by the score system soon to be initiated in 2.1? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's something that would have to be coded into a server plugin, if it's at all possible. It's a great idea, but I don't think it's worth it from a Mod-coded standpoint. If you did that you'd need stats for every server, and every player.
If, somehow, you made it into a server side plugin w/ a attatched set of stats, that would be phenominal. Hell, that would make so many frustrating games go away in a minute. It'd certainly solve some of the problems at one of the servers I frequent.
#yo-clan server : 212.42.13.20:27015 TW@ clan server : 217:158:183:181:27016 TheMrMen server : 212.58.133.40:27035
Top of my favourites list, when the clanners themselves are about I've rarely failed to have a damn good game.
Of course, these are all UK servers <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> sorry 'mericans <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Try and find clan servers out there and become regulars at ones you enjoy. Simplest advice I can give.
::edit:: Bleargh, didn't notice t'was up to 4 pages <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The point is, if you join one of these servers and <b>don't</b> by you rjoining make them a better place, you're not welcome. It's not like there's a bunch of people getting <b>paid</b> to provide good games for <b>you</b>.
Don't join a server <b>expecting</b> people to help you out. Don't join it <b>expecting</b> everyone to be nice and friendly. Join it and help <b>make</b> it a competent, friendly and fun enviroment.
I often see people join and think that it is up to the team to give them res as alien, guns as Marine, and help them out and listen to their complaints. Everyone is there to have a good time, and the only way to ensure that is by <b>you</b> taking others into consideration and do your best to help <b>them</b> out. That is an attitude I don't see enough of.
If you're a good player, put that to use for the <b>team</b>. If you're not a good <b>player</b>, maybe you're good at something else, maybe you're <b>funny</b>, everyone can contribute something and if everyone contributes, the games <b>will</b> be good.
So don't go to the servers looking for a good time, go there <b>bringing</b> a good time.
People take bad habits very quickly. DMS usually is the safest order , but it promotes ramboing too much. People see noob onos savers are flammed , so they go fade thinking their leet skillz make them respectable , as they kill many marines , they "deserve" their res. However they usually die in vain (it takes 25 kills to pay off your evolution) without having destroyed any elec node (the regen fade's main purpose) No one bothers taking the 2nd hive , and the game is over once the HA HMGs kick in.
So when you ask "sensory first on a change ?" and you see a bunch of unknown people all writing as one "dc you noob" , drop your sensory anyway (well maybe not just one) , it will force them to learn the game , the hard way. If they want DCs , they will have to build and defend the second hive. They have to learn strategy and drop other sensories to defend important areas. They can't rambo marines , they have to wait for them cloaked. Only the (relatively) intelligent ones adapt , the others grow frustrated and leave. It's the natural selection really.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stakhanov+Nov 9 2003, 08:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Nov 9 2003, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So when you ask "sensory first on a change ?" and you see a bunch of unknown people all writing as one "dc you noob" , drop your sensory anyway (well maybe not just one) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And that would be a perfect way to get banned from many of the best and most respectable servers, where the rule is to consult your team about what chamber to drop. So yes, follow that advice if you ARE indeed playing on "n00b servers" but don't follwo it if you don't want to be *forced* to play on n00b servers.
Comments
If people muck in and get their hands dirty, then it'll survive. There'll be a period where the new players have to settle in, but without new players there would be no mod. You need growth, and growth means noobs. Now, you either muck in and help shape them, or you wimp out and hide on a private server. After a while, if you've mucked in then they've learned, or left. If we don't muck in, then they learn nothing, and the servers end up full of smacktard players who scare everyone off.
I also love dropping sensory and laughing myself silly as the onos asks me what it's meant to do with sensory, and I ask it what I'm meant to do on 2 rts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I like gorging too, but when you are so used to gorging (as in it's all you ever do), such that your auto upgrade in your head without thinking is the gorge upgrade, I find it to be sad. Us gorges should be able to do other stuff too. Yes I do know that being a good gorge is a hard thing to master, but when I am conscious and in heavy gaming mode I make a pretty damn good gorge, but it's still fun to be able to do other things every once and awhile. I am a gorge during clan matches because it is something that I am very good at, I think I can easily say it is the alien lifeform I am best at, but when I go pubbing I wish I could get some nice hard core blink swipe fade action going on, or some nice spore spaming, just something different. *sigh* Anyway, if everyone tries to incorporate more teamwork into pub play, then I think NS pubbing would be a much more fun experience for us all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. I have been tempted to drop sensory for some games too, so that the onos are like omg noob, and are screwed, it's funny but llama like so I normally feel bad, and don't do it. You're pretty much just guaranteering yourself a loss anyway if you're the only one building and everyone else is res whoring. Best way to deal with res whoring (imo), is when I gorge in the beg. I only drop rts, then I figure when people realize it's 10 minutes into the game and gasp everyone wants to go onos, and there is only one hive, and no upgrades, it forces someone else to go gorge. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wholly agree that its dull to permagorge - we all like to use our custom fade models from time to time, hehehehehehe.
Switching to steam was the worst decision for R5. Should have stuck with won for as long as possible...
Thats just my idea probaly gonna get shot down.
Basically Im a gorge because Im a team player (and I like the gorge), the only time I will hoard res at the start would be because Im saving up for the second hive (although lately other people have been doing that ending up with me having 50-60 res to spend on chambers).
Battle gorge is truely a hell of alot of fun. Not only do you get alot of laughs when you ninja a marine with your super gorge, you also play the biggest role in some of the main assaults with your mad health spray spaming skillz. You don't know half the fun of being a gorge until you watch 3 marines drop to their deaths' in front of you because of the "health" spray, it's really one of the most underated weapons in NS.
As far as NS pub play, I have noticed a slight drop-off, and being a pub-only player I do get around the servers alot, but I think all the threads claiming NS pub play is "In a sorry state." or that "NS is dying!1!!!1!" are exagerated alot. The loss of the NS redphive servers was pretty bad, wish they would've stayed on WON, but the loss of them isn't the end of the NS community. Try Xzilen's, Voogru, The Hamptons, or [CoFR]'s servers if your looking for some great teamplay. I almost always have memorable games at those servers.
The only real solution is for players to regulate themselves on the matter - autobalancing just means they'll leave and go elsewhere - not the goal we'd like.
As it happens, I'm having a lot more fun as marine now, although Comms rarely listen to my tactical genius (Ok then comm, totally ignore the wide open vent that we can siege from).
If I join a game in progress and the aliens have more players I'll jump in the marine portal every time with a sigh, if the teams are equal I'll jump in the random, but at the start of a new map you can bet your sweet bee-hind I'll be sprinting to that alien portal every time XD
don't wanna do that? you can always use gorge-guilt. that's basically guilting everyone to go gorge and AT LEAST drop an RT. it usually works.
i.e.
"I've already dropped TWO Rts, hey SupaSnipaDudeAwesomeMan, what have you dropped?"
"Don't be a noob MrManKewlGuy, drop an RT or we'll lose!!"
etc etc etc.
just something to think about.
and i'm having a heckuva a time seeding a server, where are all the players <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
if yer on the westcoast, come to our servers around 7pm PST, we'll get some good team work games going <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too funny, and sadly true.
I think that's something that would have to be coded into a server plugin, if it's at all possible. It's a great idea, but I don't think it's worth it from a Mod-coded standpoint. If you did that you'd need stats for every server, and every player.
If, somehow, you made it into a server side plugin w/ a attatched set of stats, that would be phenominal. Hell, that would make so many frustrating games go away in a minute. It'd certainly solve some of the problems at one of the servers I frequent.
TW@ clan server : 217:158:183:181:27016
TheMrMen server : 212.58.133.40:27035
Top of my favourites list, when the clanners themselves are about I've rarely failed to have a damn good game.
Of course, these are all UK servers <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> sorry 'mericans <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Try and find clan servers out there and become regulars at ones you enjoy. Simplest advice I can give.
::edit:: Bleargh, didn't notice t'was up to 4 pages <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't join a server <b>expecting</b> people to help you out. Don't join it <b>expecting</b> everyone to be nice and friendly. Join it and help <b>make</b> it a competent, friendly and fun enviroment.
I often see people join and think that it is up to the team to give them res as alien, guns as Marine, and help them out and listen to their complaints. Everyone is there to have a good time, and the only way to ensure that is by <b>you</b> taking others into consideration and do your best to help <b>them</b> out. That is an attitude I don't see enough of.
If you're a good player, put that to use for the <b>team</b>. If you're not a good <b>player</b>, maybe you're good at something else, maybe you're <b>funny</b>, everyone can contribute something and if everyone contributes, the games <b>will</b> be good.
So don't go to the servers looking for a good time, go there <b>bringing</b> a good time.
No one bothers taking the 2nd hive , and the game is over once the HA HMGs kick in.
So when you ask "sensory first on a change ?" and you see a bunch of unknown people all writing as one "dc you noob" , drop your sensory anyway (well maybe not just one) , it will force them to learn the game , the hard way. If they want DCs , they will have to build and defend the second hive. They have to learn strategy and drop other sensories to defend important areas. They can't rambo marines , they have to wait for them cloaked. Only the (relatively) intelligent ones adapt , the others grow frustrated and leave. It's the natural selection really.
And that would be a perfect way to get banned from many of the best and most respectable servers, where the rule is to consult your team about what chamber to drop. So yes, follow that advice if you ARE indeed playing on "n00b servers" but don't follwo it if you don't want to be *forced* to play on n00b servers.
NS plays like a strategie game, and therefore one team's gonna get screwed from the beginning.
<span style='color:white'>Smiley herd exterminated.</span>