I Need An Experianced Mapper!

Death_Himself · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">needing an opinion!</div> Im sorta new to mapping, and i wouldn't mind some1 with experiance looking at part of my level so i can workout what i am doin wrong...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> I need an experianced Mapper!

Death_Himself · October 2003

If there is an admin, or some1 reply and we'll have to sort something out...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> cheers!

RPG_Jssmfulhud · October 2003

How about a description of your problem first? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Aea · October 2003

MY aim is aea0gc <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Reese · October 2003

Ok, first off you may want to wait more than two minutes on an off peak hour in a new forum. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

If you want someone to help with an error post a description with the compile log. If you want help figuring out how to make your level better, post some pics of what you have now. If you need help with some part of the mapping process, look through the faq's and ask questions about the things that aren't explained clearly enough there. You'll get a lot more out of this forum by utilizing community input. No one person here is going to be able to give as much in the way of suggestions, ideas, or troubleshooting as you can get from all of us. Just stop being so shy about it and post something.... trust me i've managed to look dumber at this than whatever question you may have would... and I think that is true for just about all of us.

Death_Himself · October 2003

Yeah, well i'll put up the compile log tonight when i get to my home machine.. basically i slowly put a detailed level together... made up of LOTS of brushes... for instance i try'd to put together a bridge which extends from both sides (2x platforms which extend to the middle to form a bridge..) but in this level i put fansy little clipped brushes in to make the level look a bit better.. but when i finish making the level look good i find that it has problems compiling... especially when i put VIS on... even tho i havn't as yet added lighting or nething...

oh plus can you verify somethin for me... LEAK is where the level is open to the outside, say where you haven't finished it yet... could that slow the compile process down...

dbt worry you guys if you are having problem working my problems out... but i would be v.v.grateful if you could stick around till tonight!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> Cheers....

watch_me_die · October 2003

You should try to eliminate all leaks before compiling because you won't be able to have lights and it will slow down your compile as well as having a lot of faces and planes that do not need to be in the map.

cyNickal · October 2003

If you want you can private message me the level and will take a look at it and see whats wrong <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

RPG_Jssmfulhud · October 2003

And furthermore, a leak stops the compiling process, if you use the Zoner's Half-Life Tools, completely.

Death_Himself · October 2003

Yeah sure... I'll message you the level tommoro...

neway, for now here's the compile log... and thanx for the info u've put down so far... cheers,

** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: "C:\Games\Half-Life"

** Executing...
** Command: C:\PROGRA~1\VALVEH~1\tools\qcsg.exe
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1"

qcsg.exe v2.8 (Jan 31 2000)
---- qcsg ----
entering c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1.map
CreateBrush: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
CSGBrush: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (1)
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\liquids.wad
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\xeno.wad
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\halflife.wad
WARNING: texture 8BALL1 not found in BSP's wad file list!
WARNING: texture 8BALL1 not found in BSP's wad file list!
1 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: C:\PROGRA~1\VALVEH~1\tools\qbsp2.exe
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1"

qbsp2.exe v2.2 (Dec 28 1998)
---- qbsp2 ----
LEAK LEAK LEAK
LEAK LEAK LEAK
Hullnum 2: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
LEAK LEAK LEAK
1 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: C:\PROGRA~1\VALVEH~1\tools\qrad.exe
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1"

qrad.exe v 1.5 (Apr 6 2000)
----- Radiosity ----
1 threads
[Reading texlights from 'C:\PROGRA~1\VALVEH~1\tools\lights.rad']
[1 texlights parsed from 'C:\PROGRA~1\VALVEH~1\tools\lights.rad']

No vis information, direct lighting only.
960 faces
8855 square feet [1275224.75 square inches]
2744 patches after subdivision
0 direct lights
BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
FinalLightFace: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 5/400 320/25600 ( 1.3%)
planes 2828/32767 56560/655340 ( 8.6%)
vertexes 1340/65535 16080/786420 ( 2.0%)
nodes 523/32767 12552/786408 ( 1.6%)
texinfos 598/8192 23920/327680 ( 7.3%)
faces 960/65535 19200/1310700 ( 1.5%)
clipnodes 1359/32767 10872/262136 ( 4.1%)
leaves 383/8192 10724/229376 ( 4.7%)
marksurfaces 1254/65535 2508/131070 ( 1.9%)
surfedges 4487/512000 17948/2048000 ( 0.9%)
edges 2431/256000 9724/1024000 ( 0.9%)
texdata [variable] 492/2097152 ( 0.0%)
lightdata [variable] 53928/2097152 ( 2.6%)
visdata [variable] 0/2097152 ( 0.0%)
entdata [variable] 872/131072 ( 0.7%)
=== Total BSP file data space used: 235700 bytes ===
0 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1.bsp" "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\bridgetest1.bsp"

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\bridgetest1.pts" "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\bridgetest1.pts"

** Executing...
** Command: C:\Games\HALF-L~1\hl.exe
** Parameters: +map "bridgetest1" -dev -console -windowed

Thats it!!!

Reese · October 2003

Ok, I see two problems right off. The first is that you have a leak. (duh) Leaks are basically big stop signs in the mapping trade. You <i><b><u>CANNOT</u></b></i> do anything aside from basic level geometry with a leak in your map. While you can get sprites and entities to function you're better off dedicating the time and energy to leakfinding, as that will have to happen before you can release anything.

The second problem is your compile tools. The tools you are using are the old old old old quake tools that ship with VHE. Although those were great for quake, we have much better now. Look to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=21248' target='_blank'>this link</a> for Zoner's HL tools, as modified by XP-Cagey. These are the most up to date tools you can find for ns mapping at the moment. They are both faster and more descriptive than the quake tools you are using now. I suggest you update as soon as you can. (note you'll have to rename all of the qbsp, qcsg, blah blah blah stuff to the new files.

*edit* it's also not a wonderful practice to compile a map without lights. I understand that you're working on building up world geometry at the moment, but doing some temporary entity or even texture lighting will help a lot. I find it helpful to work at about the same quality on all levels. So, if i'm doing third draft geometry, i'll try to do third draft lighting as well. In the end the "feel" of you map is governed by how the two interact, so you might as well look at both at once.

Death_Himself · October 2003

Thanx... Thats all gd,

Well i give it a go...
Does this editor have the same problems with "clipping" in VHE... If it does this or something similar???

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> Cheers...

Reese · October 2003

I don't think i'm quite understanding your question here. If you're referring to the "clipped brushes you put in to make the map look better" I really can't say as that's not enough information. In general I can give you some guidelines on decorative brushes though:

1) Any two world brushes (I.E. anything that's not an entity) that touch each other will split faces at compile time. Basically when the compiler is determining how it's going to light up any surface it splits that surface into smaller sections that it can work with. It does this by both A) using the interaction of world brushes to generate cuts, and B) using a subdivide setting to cut up brushes larger than a certain dimension into smaller, more manageable objects. This is important to know because avoiding brush on brush touches will help to keep the compiler from unnecessarily splitting up an object. This gives you fewer polygons, which means lower r_speeds and higher framerates.

2) To avoid this kind of splitting and still use details there are two things you can do. The first is to move the detail component one unit off the world brush. This keeps the two from touching, which keeps the detail from breaking the wall/ceiling/floor into smaller pieces than it needs to. The other solution is to turn that detail into a func_wall or func_illusionary (depending on whether or not you want someone to be able to stand on it or in any other way be constrained by the brush) which will keep from being used in the vis process that cuts your level into pieces for lighting. This also will reduce r_speeds, but adds to your entity usage.

3) The othe solution, which is only viable for very very large pieces of decoration (the big pillar things in bast's refinery hive are a good example of this) Basically you can rearrange your ceiling/floor/wall to "make a hole" for the decoration. This allows you to control how the piece is cut apart. The process for this is similar to the instructions you can find on carving. In effect you're trying to make the decoration touch the smallest size square (or triangular) brush possible, which means that a smaller brush is being cut up for vis.

Hopefully this answers your question, hopefully it's coherent. If it's the second than it's useful information, even if it isn't a direct answer. If you were asking about something else a more detailed question, possibly with screenshots if you need 'em to help, should be enough for someone to field it.

Rokiyo · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Death_Himself @ Oct 15 2003, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ---- qbsp2 ----
LEAK LEAK LEAK
LEAK LEAK LEAK
Hullnum 2: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
LEAK LEAK LEAK
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Take careful not that the leak is in Hull 2, not Hull 0.

You don't have any holes in your map, you basically have a closed off area with no entities in it.

Imagine that you make a large hollow cube, in one corner of your map, with nothing it. The compiler can see that this is a closed off area, but because there are no entities inside it, it decides that this cube isn't part of your map, as so doesn't fill the cube with clipnodes. When rad tries to light up the texlights in this cube, it wont have any vis data to run from, and so it gets VERY slow at calculating the lighting for this area that isn't even supposedly part of your map...

The thing is, that with no entities on the inside of this particular part of your map, players have no way of getting there or looking at that place... So why have you put it there?

Death_Himself · October 2003

Oh, yeah... well the Info-Player-Start ent. always starts in the part of the level i want to test... but now i kno about some of the MAJOR mistakes i've been making

Well, thanx tons u guys... Thanx for the tips... I understand alot better now... i have even got a copy of this page for reference... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I'm gettin to it now in fact...
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Rokiyo · October 2003

Oh I get it now. You've made one area, found it worked fine, moved the only entity in that area (info_player_start) to a new part of the map, and then suddenly this leak in hull 2 popped up.

I've done that many times as well...

I Need An Experianced Mapper!

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