Why Put Loads Of Ocs In The Hive?

asunder · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">You're inviting a siege</div> Wouldn't it be better if they were a litte further from the hive so the marines will have to siege even before they get to the hive? Or, for a warning that they're getting close to the hive? Of course, put some in the hive in case of crazy JPs

Also, why put OCs directly outside the marine base when siegeing? They can just build a <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'> in they safety of their base to make <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> stay away from your OCs while they get blasted. Build them a little farther off just so a rambo can't make a com chair somewhere.

Stoneburg · October 2003

Putting OC's at the standard siege points is good, it stops them from sieging.

Putting OC's in the hive is good, it stops them from rushing.

So if you're up against a team that isn't very aggressive, put them outside, if you're up against gung-ho Marines, put them inside. Best would of course be to to both <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

leek · October 2003

but that is also a huge investment in res.

if you have 2 hives your probably taking about setting up somewhere in the region of about 10-15 ocs to cover both hives. thats alot of res. its needs to be a fine balance. gone are the days of 1.04 when you could build huge walls of lame all over the map. OC placement needs to be perfect to minimise res spent.

as it gets towards late game the only real thing you have to worry about is a jetpacker getting into a siege building location. because if HAs come OCs will not stop them.

Stoneburg · October 2003

Notice the ";)" at the end of that sentence? No? Ok then.

asunder · October 2003

To me, doing both would be a 2:1 ratio of outside to inside or even 3:1.

Damn, I wish we had an OC smiley

Geronimo · October 2003

thing is, if they want to go ito the hive and SG it, they cant rush past the ocs, which will be shooting all the time, in places where you are able to siege, they need to build stuff which gives you time to repell...

Also note that hive = 1
siegepoints to same hive = >1

asunder · October 2003

Yeah, but OCs in the hive wont give you a warning against <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'> . While OCs on the way to the point (or in it) can

Also, the usually build siege really stealthily. The OCs prevent that.

Deacon · October 2003

The only useful counter to the ASC is constant, aggressive scouting.

OCs don't even factor into siege defense (except, perhaps, giving the siege an extra target to kill before it starts pegging the hive).

BlackMage · October 2003

place ocs so that the marines never get near the siege points, or the hive.
tell skulks to cover all other possible paths

Swift_Idiot · October 2003

The only reason I can think of to put OCs within the hive's healing range is if the hive really does heal OCs. If it doesn't, then yes, the only thing you're protecting against is rambo marines or semi-coordinated rushes. Sieges will tear you up in no time. It's always good to put OCs at chokepoints, so as to protect from sieges. I never cease to be amazed how people still don't understand that one of the fundamental strengths of the marines all the way up to the endgame is that they are the ones with control of the guns, and thus, the range of engagements. Sieges are the perfect example of this. They don't even have to be NEAR your base to obliterate it. They could be in some ridiculously remote area to get to on foot for a skulk, but because they are just within siege range, hive = gg.

Key: Know the siege spots, and put OCs there. For siege spots on the road to your hive, OCs prevent sieges from immediately going up, as well as damage or distract rushes. For siege spots that are not on the road to your hive, but are in range of it all the same, such as processing, ns_hera VS Ventilation hive, OCs prevent only the sieges.

A better solution would be to prevent rushes and siegers from even getting to the siege spot in the first place. Chokepoints are, next to hives and res nodes, the third most important type of location to hold. Everyone from the old 1.04 days should still vividly remember ns_nancy and the infamous Mess Hall chokepoint/res node. Controlling Mess Hall was essentially controlling the map, since you could push to all three hives from there, or on the alien's side, push closer and closer to marine start, all while keeping the other team from pushing back.

OCs are usually the first line of defense. They work well when used for just such a purpose. Thus, it only makes sense to put them on the FRONT LINES. Until the endgame, 3 well-placed OCs, a DC, and a dodgy, professional gorge player is all you need to block an entire area off from all but the most concentrated rushes, either forcing them to abandon the attempt, or bring MUCH heavier guns, or even siege. (Note: At least in pubs, I should make clear)

im_lost · October 2003

You guys are forgetting that there are generally 2 entrances to a hive. If you have limited res, do you put the oc's in the hive to defend against a rush, or do you put half as many oc's at each side to prevent sieging/rushing on that side?

Ajurian · October 2003

I've managed to keep a hive alive (for a while at least) by dropping chambers around it (at a decent distance, and preferrably not on the same level avoid the splash) to give the siege something else to shoot at for a while.

Swift_Idiot · October 2003

Again, the idea isn't to place the OCs on both side entrances to the hive. Trace those roads back the way they came until they either lead to the same location, and put OCs there, in order to keep people off of both of those routes, or trace the roads back until they lead to some other room or hallway that is a main thoroughfare, and put the OCs there to reduce traffic.

If you simply can't do this, pick the siege spot that the marines seem to be pushing more towards, and put the OCs there. Use your best judgement.

Almost anything is better than just shoving all your OCs in the hive. It does nothing.

im_lost · October 2003

The problem is that many times players will ignore the "structure is under attack" message when they are attacked outside the hive (I assume this is discussing pub games). So, the marines will take down those defenses. This will result in nothing stopping the marines from attacking the hive once they kill those defenses, whether they siege from that point or rush into the hive.

Now, if the structures are inside the hive, a rush into the hive will result in at least one marine shooting at the hive immediately, bringing more aliens than would otherwise come to help defend. Now, there are OC's shooting the marines and aliens attacking them. If marines do siege, structures can be targeted first, with just a little bit of splash damage hitting the hive, again bringing aliens to defend before the hive is the main target.

I think the biggest risk with OC's outside the hive is that a JP'er can easily bypass them with a few medpacks. They get a pg up, and your defenses are useless.

gekigarion · October 2003

OCs work wonderfully in chokepoints to defend a hive. If there are no chokepoints, think to yourself: Where would the marines siege from? And put the OCs there. If you're worried about other points, put 3-4 OCs only in each point. Usually, if a lone marine can take out 3-4 OCs, he can take out 6-7 just as easily. And if it's a squad of marines, same applies.

Of course, always, ALWAYS keep grenadiers in mind. Try to put OCs in place where they're not too vulnerable to the nades, but still lethal.

BreakfastSausages · October 2003

Inviting a siege? you might find it odd when I say this... GOOD!

sieges take time, sieges take money, sieges force marines to group up in alien territory.

consider this: if the marines DONT siege, what is the alternative?

a phase gate and shotgun rush causes me alot more fear than a siege situation.

I find that if aliens know the hive is being attacked, and have a few minutes notce, they will almost always win the battle (varies with hive location/res/skill obviously)

taboofires · October 2003

I'd put at least 1-2 OCs in the hive room to fend off the ninjas. If I can build a phase somewhere that is outside the OC coverage (even right under the hive), I'll find it, and I'll put one there.

The rest of them I'd put spread out in corridors outside the hive, covering the spots marines would normally siege from. 2 towards the front and one back aways (to hurt those who run past the first OCs) works well.

In most 2.0x games, I've never had enough res to build a significant number of OCs early enough to count. If you can only afford 2 OCs, drop them near the hive itself to prevent spawn camping. If you have effectively infinite res, spread them out as much as practical.

Why Put Loads Of Ocs In The Hive?

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