The Topic On My Mind
Niteowl
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">even if nobody wants to talk aboot it :)</div> The NS Community seems to be dying.
Evidence:
NS servers that used to be full 24/7 are not, other servers that used to at least be busy, are deserted
NS.org forum seems empty, not alot of new posts for a 24 hr period compared to when NS was bumping
now, i love NS, and the teamplay, and everything that goes along with it. WHY is it dying, in your humble
opinion? and WHAT can we do about it?
this is my 2 cents.
WHY:
-NS pub is hell as rines, everyone is scared to death of comming, since it takes quite a bit of skill to scrape a win out
-without a pool of players who would even consider playing comm, NS pub games can be painful at best
-most new players go rine, most vets forced to go alien, reinforcing the Alien Domination
-other new games getting people's attention?
-the 'in' crowd / elitism, can't say i've experienced this too much myself, but i can see how that can be really off-putting
WHAT:
-somehow rectify this "Hard as heck to win as rines" problem through gameplay changes
-make the new player game easier to understand somehow, perhaps NS:Combat will help?
-make the betas open
Evidence:
NS servers that used to be full 24/7 are not, other servers that used to at least be busy, are deserted
NS.org forum seems empty, not alot of new posts for a 24 hr period compared to when NS was bumping
now, i love NS, and the teamplay, and everything that goes along with it. WHY is it dying, in your humble
opinion? and WHAT can we do about it?
this is my 2 cents.
WHY:
-NS pub is hell as rines, everyone is scared to death of comming, since it takes quite a bit of skill to scrape a win out
-without a pool of players who would even consider playing comm, NS pub games can be painful at best
-most new players go rine, most vets forced to go alien, reinforcing the Alien Domination
-other new games getting people's attention?
-the 'in' crowd / elitism, can't say i've experienced this too much myself, but i can see how that can be really off-putting
WHAT:
-somehow rectify this "Hard as heck to win as rines" problem through gameplay changes
-make the new player game easier to understand somehow, perhaps NS:Combat will help?
-make the betas open
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
here are some main reasons i fell that NS community is alot less active
WHY-
2.0 killed alot of the 1.04 regulars.
2.0 bought in alot of newbies to ns.
the newbies are leaving now that the hype has died down.
pub on 2.0 is ****, too demanding on being ""elite"" of both marines and aliens. In 1.04 a few "elite" players could carry the team
stomp and the early fade totally unbalances wars, ""elite"", or even semi experienced clans decimate all newcomers.
NS:C will bring in alot of new players, those players will play NS:C, they wont want to play natural selection, alot of the younger/more skilled ns players will also go to NS:C, especially those fed up with 2.0 pub. I think NS:C will kill 2.0 pub (not the clan scene tho), and frankly, with the state pub is in atm, this wouldnt be such a bad thing.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They shouldn't? All clans started somewhere.
The community is learning, on the very few public servers I play on they can get to tier two sort of, then the events that follow are damn funny <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's not "hard as heck" to win with marines, either. All you need is a team who'll listen at least a bit.
It's not "hard as heck" to win with marines, either. All you need is a team who'll listen at least a bit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, i hope i'm just imagining things, or these are just temporary growing pains then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm just biding my time really <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And no, open betas are a BAD idea for a number of reasons. The 2.01 beta wasn't *too* bad, as it was minor balance tweaks. But when you get into major revisions, you need people who will keep in mind that it's just a beta, and not the finalized product. At a few points in v2.0, I was considering simply not playing NS any more. By the next revision, the part that was so painful was gone.
Unfortunately, the last-minute changes kinda took all that balance testing and threw it out the window, but you should get the idea. It's not an 'elite group of testers', its a 'group of people who can stand REAL beta-testing'.
I completely and absolutely agree on this one. And I havent played NS in for a week because:
☼ Absolutely flippen tired of n00bs/CS-rambos/retarded moves/dumb suggestions in the S&I/in-game flaming/n00b comms
and
☼ Great new games caught my eye. Halo, Savage, and Gunbound have me addicted.
AND
☼ NS is just too stressful at times... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
"2.0 killed alot of the 1.04 regulars" -- is more significant than the impact of Steam. Anyone who's played from pre-1.04 should notice this fact. I wish someone had a graph of NS activity for the 2 months on either side of the new release.
Presuming people play games b/c they are fun, the obvious implication is that 1.04 is just not as fun as 2.0. The new one may look better and may be more "fair", but it seems that's not enough to overcome the loss of "fun". It's ironic the developers tried to make it more clan-friendly in hopes of increasing popularity, but potentially have had the exact opposite effect.
Everyday i notice someone else i knew vanish, I miss all my old NS buddies, Entire clans, ones that had been arround since 1.02 are no longer with us, as their players got fed up with this "know all" mass of newbies.
People say we all started as a newbie, Yeah that all well and fine, but we wanted to learn the game properly, not to go into the CC on our first outing and build CCs all over the map, then do it again next time, and again.
We do try to help newbies, but sadly the majority dont listen, they just dont care, I would like to know, aside from the playtesters, who is still around who played since NS 1.0 release all the way up till now, I would like to know how many left before 2.0 and how many left after. Just to prove or kill my opinion.. I just dont know how to do this <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's weird because it's not stuff like the balance things that have changed it. It just feels a bit more polished and so do the maps ~shrug~
I have had some good games since the network has improved but I no longer play .. generally weaned from games although I think I will take up Diablo2 expansion again <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
- A bunch hate the mod creators and the mod because they hate the changes. Ironically they're hating somebody working on a product they're getting for free... so excuse me if I find this behavior puzzling. If you don't like the mod, don't complain. Just leave.
- Then there's those that are interested in staying around and seeing what wild ride the mod authors take them on.
- There there's the n00bs like me that go "ooooo, shiny new mod for me to play" and find themselves hooked.
The fact is, this is the simple ecology of game and mod communities. The other nice fact is that NS, at its heart, has a REALLY great simple premise, and brings one of THE best teamplay experiences I've ever come across. Even when I'm losing, if my team's at least working together, I'm having fun. Forgive me if I sound naive for saying it, but that's truly what makes a game fun. Enjoying it even when I lose.
Sure it may be in a lull right now, but the HL community in general is caught in a really hectic vortex. On one side you have the immense pool of suck known as Counter-Strike (I know, I'm a jerk. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), then you have Steam pulling another way, and finally you have a tiny little game called Half Life 2 trying to get peoples' attention. With the rocky transition away from being very CS based (yes, to many people, CS IS Half-Life) and moving to Steam alone, I can see things being just kinda "blah" for a while as the future tries to figure itself out. Once WON is shut down and valve has forced us all (willing or unwilling or something in between) to Steam, I think you'll see things pick up a bit. Further, as more thunder is stolen from CS, you'll see it pick up more.
Give it time folks. Truly good mods always live on, and NS is no exception to that rule. Besides, I can't wait to see what Flayra and company do with HL2 in their hot little hands in the future. *drEwL*
i haven't played NS 2.0 in about 3 months now, iv'e gone back to playing CS & DOD.. only in the last week have i played NS 2.0 again.. and i'm still i'm not enjoying it, like i did before (1.04)..
with 2.1 sounding the way it does.. well, have to wait and see..
in reguards to the initial post..
yes, the servers are alot more empty than i remember.. i have 5 servers in my list.. only 2 of these servers ever have any players on them at the same time.. and thats a rare sight.
I'm sorry if you dislike the road NS is taking, I really am, but the matter of fact is that it's <i>not</i> dying.
NS:C is probably going to get more people interested, and started into NS.
Can't wait. ^^
I don't know whether NS:C will introduce all that many more people to NS, but I'm sure it'll help fill up the servers faster.
And as for NS dying, i think that's just completely ignorant of all the facts. Yes, there are a fewer number of WON NS servers than before, but, including Steam, there is an equal amount (As Nem0 said.). As for players, i know there's a fair number out there who've converted to Steam only to find a handfull of players on NS Steam servers, so therefore given up for the time being.
NS is just as strong as it was before.
And as for the forums "slowing down", i think the fact that as of the start of september all you kiddies went back to school contributes to the fewer amount of posts in comparison to over the summer months.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, and this "impossible to win as marines" thing, are you actually playing 2.01? In the games i've played in the last week (Roughly 1-2 hours a day), at least half have been marine wins.
EDIT 2:
Infact, in the past week, several days worth of games have been 100% marine wins.
Here is one person's reply to someone who (I think) hated NS:
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 23 2003, 08:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 23 2003, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next time you feel the urge to insult and belittle a person who spent two years and more money than you have ever seen on creating a free game, wait until it has passed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people don't like the game, leave. Don't spread the news about how bad it is; it's not. Don't spread the news about how you don't like it; everyone else does.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I believe the forums are dying, just because there isn't much to talk about NS anymore...
are caused by lamers, which we need to eliminate, which will cause less people to play NS, which will make people think that NS sucks because nobody plays it, which will make Flayra advertise NS more, which will introduce lamers, which will cause <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 hour stalemates<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->, which we need to eliminate...
oooo figures, we had that many players in the UK alone in 1.03 :/
And im not bashing 2.0 as i love it, just as u pointed out esuna, too many people didnt like it, and left because of the attitude from the forums, just like what u said, instead of appeasing the masses.
Too many people didn't like it and decided to stop playing, and many new players joined and do like it. The numbers balance out, and there's nothing at all wrong with having some new blood.
The most ironic server is also in the UK, stating in its greet, that newbies will be banned, yet everytime i go there its full of people who my HLSW has never seen before, and my HLSW database is massive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The most ironic server is also in the UK, stating in its greet, that newbies will be banned, yet everytime i go there its full of people who my HLSW has never seen before, and my HLSW database is massive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's as many players that refuse to learn and griefers as there always has been.
Off-Topic:
Are you Uber Frost, by any chance?