<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Evolutionism starts with an unprovable premise. That natural processes created everything (well really changed what already was).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not entirely true. There have been several experiments where organic compounds from inorganic ones. It's important to realize that new discoveries are made on a regular basis. We didn't even know about the existance of deep sea thermal vents until 1977. That led to some new theories about the origin of life and how things could have survived the UV.
<a href='http://www.extremescience.com/deepcreat5.htm' target='_blank'>Nifty Thermal Vent Symbiosis with Tube Worms</a>
Just so Aegeri doesn't thwack me for using old data, it's important to note that the orgininal experiment was done in 1953, although more modernized versions of it have been done. The Miller-Urey experiment shows how organic substances like amino acids and fatty acids can form from inorganic compounds like methane, hydrogen cyanide and ammonia.
The information is actually for an exobiology course instead of a standard biology course. However, the information is still relevant. I like the references to the Murchison meteorite.
<a href='http://www.sciencenews.org/20020330/fob1.asp' target='_blank'>Precursor to Pigs in Space</a>
This is far more modern and, IMO, more interesting than the Miller-Urey experiment from an individual fascination standpoint. Creating amino acids in a deep-space environment is very cool stuff.
I must thank you all for the lively discussion. The outcome hasn't surprised me at all. You haven't convinced me and I haven't convinced you. Just like I said would happen in the beginning.
I will be on the boards, but I won't be visiting this thread again.
Certain of you it has been a pleasure to debate. Some of you took your criticisms of organized religion and the nutjobs who wrote it too far. I don't call the leaders of your theory nutjobs, so I would ask you return the favor.
I try to play NS at least once every night (sometimes I don't manage that though), so if you enjoyed debating my, send me an email or instant message and we can hook up for a game sometime.
[EDIT] Just teasing you, Donnell. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You're a good sport. [/EDIT]
<!--QuoteBegin--Hawkeye+Oct 9 2003, 08:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 9 2003, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well I hate to break everybody's bubble, but humans have redefined the rules of evolution.
Humans won't grow big brains and tiny bodies. Why should we? Nothing bad happens to the ones who evolve badly. Retarded and handicapped people live like anybody else. In fact, the only way genes aren't carried down is if they can't get a mate in today's world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes and no. Humans are just redefining the environment for natural selection in humans; they are not redefining the <b>rules</b> of evolution. The rules cannot change. Our brains might grow bigger. We came up with the cesarean section to avoid problems with babies that were too large to fit through the mother's pelvis. Had we not done this, our brains would have been limited purely by the pelvic bone. Will those babies that were born through cesarean have a greater likelihood of procreating and spreading their genes for larger heads? Well, who knows... not all babies born via cesarean were because the baby was too big. And all babies are given the same chance at living and procreating. But perhaps one of these days some condition will favor a certain populous more than others, and the traits of those individuals will pass on. It may take a virus or something similar to trigger, however.
[edit]
The other thing I forgot to mention was that only first-world countries have the ability to repair or nourish people who might otherwise be culled out through natural selection. In third-world countries, they don't have sufficient medical care to take care of even the most basic of problems. So evolution does still apply to the human race in these locales.
Comments
That's not entirely true. There have been several experiments where organic compounds from inorganic ones. It's important to realize that new discoveries are made on a regular basis. We didn't even know about the existance of deep sea thermal vents until 1977. That led to some new theories about the origin of life and how things could have survived the UV.
<a href='http://www.extremescience.com/deepcreat5.htm' target='_blank'>Nifty Thermal Vent Symbiosis with Tube Worms</a>
<a href='http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html' target='_blank'>Miller-Urey Experiment</a>
Just so Aegeri doesn't thwack me for using old data, it's important to note that the orgininal experiment was done in 1953, although more modernized versions of it have been done. The Miller-Urey experiment shows how organic substances like amino acids and fatty acids can form from inorganic compounds like methane, hydrogen cyanide and ammonia.
The information is actually for an exobiology course instead of a standard biology course. However, the information is still relevant. I like the references to the Murchison meteorite.
<a href='http://www.sciencenews.org/20020330/fob1.asp' target='_blank'>Precursor to Pigs in Space</a>
This is far more modern and, IMO, more interesting than the Miller-Urey experiment from an individual fascination standpoint. Creating amino acids in a deep-space environment is very cool stuff.
I will be on the boards, but I won't be visiting this thread again.
Certain of you it has been a pleasure to debate. Some of you took your criticisms of organized religion and the nutjobs who wrote it too far. I don't call the leaders of your theory nutjobs, so I would ask you return the favor.
I try to play NS at least once every night (sometimes I don't manage that though), so if you enjoyed debating my, send me an email or instant message and we can hook up for a game sometime.
WE'RE DA BOMB!
[EDIT] Just teasing you, Donnell. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You're a good sport. [/EDIT]
Humans won't grow big brains and tiny bodies. Why should we? Nothing bad happens to the ones who evolve badly. Retarded and handicapped people live like anybody else. In fact, the only way genes aren't carried down is if they can't get a mate in today's world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and no. Humans are just redefining the environment for natural selection in humans; they are not redefining the <b>rules</b> of evolution. The rules cannot change. Our brains might grow bigger. We came up with the cesarean section to avoid problems with babies that were too large to fit through the mother's pelvis. Had we not done this, our brains would have been limited purely by the pelvic bone. Will those babies that were born through cesarean have a greater likelihood of procreating and spreading their genes for larger heads? Well, who knows... not all babies born via cesarean were because the baby was too big. And all babies are given the same chance at living and procreating. But perhaps one of these days some condition will favor a certain populous more than others, and the traits of those individuals will pass on. It may take a virus or something similar to trigger, however.
[edit]
The other thing I forgot to mention was that only first-world countries have the ability to repair or nourish people who might otherwise be culled out through natural selection. In third-world countries, they don't have sufficient medical care to take care of even the most basic of problems. So evolution does still apply to the human race in these locales.