The Wind Of Change......
stribetnatdyr
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18975Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18975Members
Changes, and more changes. And now, MORE changes. And to top it all, the view-field has changed, so it looks NOTHING like the half-life mods that people are used to. Movement feels completely different, and now, movement has been made cs-alike, marines are now hardly able to move at all, except forward, when they're not jumping, that is.
Hell, spend hours, days, weeks, months putting together fine-tuned precise team tactics - then _someone_ _thinks_ that they want to "balance" the game......(although the game was just fine before) and it all gets changed, and your tactics are worth ****. Fine, things change. So we refine the tactics. And then, hey, it gets changed AGAIN. WOohoo.
This is just not worth spending time on anymore - it has become more like some science-fiction cartoon (30fps) movie, than a game that can be used for professional online league playing.
Most client-side variables have been locked, so now we all have the same field-of-vision (NON-STANDARD?? WHY???), the same brightness (which in this case is DARK), so now you can no longer play by feeling, because you can't see ****, or at least not fast enough.
What's next? Disable EAX and A3D, to "BALANCE" the game for people with no stereo sound, same as in CS???
Skill has no meaning anymore, it gets disabled anyway, sooner or later. First no bunnyhopping - and now, no jumping at all, you simply get slowed down by it, so it doesn't pay off to learn any jumping skills. Noob-friendly, hell yes, very.
Today i found that skulks can no longer climb over railings (?!?!??!) WTH??? When was that decided??? AGAIN, my attack-patterns on the maps i am used to are worthless because there are railings everywhere. i guess skulks will end up not being able to leap also, because it's "unbalanced"?
The balance was supposed to be between the marines and the aliens - not the beginners and the veterans.
If i wanted to play CS, i would play CS - not integrate the noob-friendly movement-stuff into other good games and ruin them :/
Hell, spend hours, days, weeks, months putting together fine-tuned precise team tactics - then _someone_ _thinks_ that they want to "balance" the game......(although the game was just fine before) and it all gets changed, and your tactics are worth ****. Fine, things change. So we refine the tactics. And then, hey, it gets changed AGAIN. WOohoo.
This is just not worth spending time on anymore - it has become more like some science-fiction cartoon (30fps) movie, than a game that can be used for professional online league playing.
Most client-side variables have been locked, so now we all have the same field-of-vision (NON-STANDARD?? WHY???), the same brightness (which in this case is DARK), so now you can no longer play by feeling, because you can't see ****, or at least not fast enough.
What's next? Disable EAX and A3D, to "BALANCE" the game for people with no stereo sound, same as in CS???
Skill has no meaning anymore, it gets disabled anyway, sooner or later. First no bunnyhopping - and now, no jumping at all, you simply get slowed down by it, so it doesn't pay off to learn any jumping skills. Noob-friendly, hell yes, very.
Today i found that skulks can no longer climb over railings (?!?!??!) WTH??? When was that decided??? AGAIN, my attack-patterns on the maps i am used to are worthless because there are railings everywhere. i guess skulks will end up not being able to leap also, because it's "unbalanced"?
The balance was supposed to be between the marines and the aliens - not the beginners and the veterans.
If i wanted to play CS, i would play CS - not integrate the noob-friendly movement-stuff into other good games and ruin them :/
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Hell, spend hours, days, weeks, months putting together fine-tuned precise team tactics - then _someone_ _thinks_ that they want to "balance" the game......(although the game was just fine before) and it all gets changed, and your tactics are worth ****. Fine, things change. So we refine the tactics. And then, hey, it gets changed AGAIN. WOohoo.
This is just not worth spending time on anymore - it has become more like some science-fiction cartoon (30fps) movie, than a game that can be used for professional online league playing.
Most client-side variables have been locked, so now we all have the same field-of-vision (NON-STANDARD?? WHY???), the same brightness (which in this case is DARK), so now you can no longer play by feeling, because you can't see ****, or at least not fast enough.
What's next? Disable EAX and A3D, to "BALANCE" the game for people with no stereo sound, same as in CS???
Skill has no meaning anymore, it gets disabled anyway, sooner or later. First no bunnyhopping - and now, no jumping at all, you simply get slowed down by it, so it doesn't pay off to learn any jumping skills. Noob-friendly, hell yes, very.
Today i found that skulks can no longer climb over railings (?!?!??!) WTH??? When was that decided??? AGAIN, my attack-patterns on the maps i am used to are worthless because there are railings everywhere. i guess skulks will end up not being able to leap also, because it's "unbalanced"?
The balance was supposed to be between the marines and the aliens - not the beginners and the veterans.
If i wanted to play CS, i would play CS - not integrate the noob-friendly movement-stuff into other good games and ruin them :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
May I be the first to request no-one dignifies this post with an answer. I WAS going to say why it's so wrong... but I think better we just ignore it until it goes away.
(And seeing as it's at the top of the page as I type, no, I'm not being hypocritical.)
I have been playing since 2.0, and I would have to say balance is there, it is more noob friendly but nothing like CS, and you just need to play more.
No one will like all the changes, and some people are against change, however I like this rev, and I think it is the best yet.
Sorry to not jump on the bandwagon of this all sucks, but I don't think it does...(If I did would I have a server up, and play 20+ hours a week).
Again nice to know you stopped by, probably never to post again, and are likely to just say NS sucks don't try it cause they made it different from the way I wanted (even though I never really posted what I wanted).
Obviously, you are also not in-tune with the client-side variables of the game. Really, not much is locked - excluding the field of view (which is defined per lifeform, not the same for everybody).
Do some research before posting your grievances.
Only movement for marines was changed. Jumping during a fight is still a good way to avoid attacks, just now it doesn't make you practically immune.
Bunnyhopping breaks this little thing called 'realism'. Because this game is NOT just about being a test of skill vs skill (it has character and theme to it too), and bunnyhopping completely broke the believeability it was removed. Bunnyhopping is a skill, but not all skills need to have their place in any one game. If someone can tau jump in HL, should they be allowed to use that skill in NS as well?
Yeah, balanced was changed because amazingly IT NEEDED CHANGING. Games are never perfect the first time, there are always overpowered tactics that end up dominating play, making every game identical. 2.01 has solved alot of those problems, and now the win/loss ratio is much closer to 1.
You do realize you can change your brightness with both your video settings AND you monitor? Sowhat if they disabled changing the actual HL setting?
Being unable to wallwalk on railings is a bug, not a feature. Ask one of the mapping inclined people to explain why it happens.
If you're so concerned about games being pure skill vs skill, you might wanna check out multiplayer pong. No graphics, so FPS doesn't matter. No sound, so that doesn't matter. Both teams are exactly equal, so theres no balance to change. Sounds like an ideal game.
I have also followed the development through NS2.0, 2.01a, 2.01b, and played the game as it developped.
And no, many people can NOT unlock the locked stuff. It stays locked, changing the appropriate cl_things DOES NOT WORK. cl_force-this and that. no effect. I am not the only one with that problem.
And I dont want broken features to be explained - I want them FIXED - they weren't.
Skulks get killed be 1 shot from 20 meters away. That has nothing to do with skill anymore. Just set mouse sensitivity down to 2, and you can own even the best of skulks with a simple shotgun.
Sorry, but that's not balance to me. that's more like making skills count for nothing.
NS is IMHO no longer a high-speed skill-dependant FPS game, it's a slow-motion strategy game. Too much has changed.
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Movement feels completely different, and now, movement has been made cs-alike, marines are now hardly able to move at all, except forward, when they're not jumping, that is.
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Marines are not supposed to be agile. The aliens are the fast ones. That's one of the key differences between the two teams.
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....(although the game was just fine before) and it all gets changed, and your tactics are worth ****. Fine, things change. So we refine the tactics. And then, hey, it gets changed AGAIN. WOohoo.
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It's Natural Selection, not CS. Adapt or be left behind. If you're too set in the old ways to modify your thinking a bit, you won't win. Simple.
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This is just not worth spending time on anymore - it has become more like some science-fiction cartoon (30fps) movie, than a game that can be used for professional online league playing.
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That's an opinion, not a fact.
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Most client-side variables have been locked, so now we all have the same field-of-vision (NON-STANDARD?? WHY???), the same brightness (which in this case is DARK), so now you can no longer play by feeling, because you can't see ****, or at least not fast enough.
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The FOV has, as far as I know, only been changed for the skulks. It's supposed to give them an advantage over the marines by letting them see more. It's actually a relatively minor change, and if you can't adapt, well, I've mentioned that already. As for brightness, try adjusting your gamma or your vid card brightness a bit (Maybe even your monitor). I'm using Steam now, and it has two nice little sliders for brightness and gamma.
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What's next? Disable EAX and A3D, to "BALANCE" the game for people with no stereo sound, same as in CS???
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That's just ridiculous.
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Skill has no meaning anymore, it gets disabled anyway, sooner or later. First no bunnyhopping - and now, no jumping at all, you simply get slowed down by it, so it doesn't pay off to learn any jumping skills. Noob-friendly, hell yes, very.
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Skill has plenty of meaning. There's a big difference between a skulk that can rip through four or five marines, and a skulk who runs straight at a marine head-on and gets ripped apart. If you're talking only about marines, the skill is supposed to be in the aiming, not the jumping. Marines emphasize tactical skill, aliens emphasize more DM-style skills. Oh, and bunnyhopping (In the proper sense) was an exploit. That's why it's been reduced or eliminated in several mods.
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Today i found that skulks can no longer climb over railings (?!?!??!) WTH??? When was that decided??? AGAIN, my attack-patterns on the maps i am used to are worthless because there are railings everywhere. i guess skulks will end up not being able to leap also, because it's "unbalanced"?
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That's a bug. Railings are usually not map brushes, so the wall-walking code doesn't work properly with them. They also may be clip brushes combined with func_illusionary's. One of those methods screws up the wall-walking, but I believe they're working on fixing this.
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The balance was supposed to be between the marines and the aliens - not the beginners and the veterans.
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So apparently you define a "veteran" as someone who knows how to use exploits (i.e. bunnyhopping) and has memorized the exact set of tactics that would win the game (i.e. 1.04 JP/HMG). I define a veteran as someone who knows the rules, knows the various tactics, and knows how to take advantage of the capabilities and weaknesses of each component, along with adjusting his/her tactics to the current game instead of just using what other people say is "best".
If you hate NS this much, you're free to leave.
EDIT: Of course I spent so much time typing this, that everything was pretty much answered. Oh well.
Yes, damn you Flayra for changing the game you and the team created and damn your wanting to take the game in the directions you want to take it in. I mean, what right do the creators have to make the game how they want!
So I am glad they took it out(somewhat, you still can gain speed by doing it), I am glad that there are pure servers with fixed unchangeable fov
and other settings that give people an advantage for the small price of taking away from the atmosphere of the game. I don't know how long you have been playing games online, but man you have got to see how some people played Q and Q2 (and still do). Full bright models, crazy **** models for rockets (that basically show where they will land!) , increased fov (i played with 110 myself) and hundreds of crazy stuff, meant to give the player an advantage over the vanilla version of the game. Setting standards for everyone to play is just awesome, it makes sure it is all about skill vs skill. Now the only edge you have is skill , the way it should be. And just because an exploit takes skill to take advantage of, doesn't make it any less lame than one that doesn't take much skill to use.
-R0YB0T
adapt..hmm, if you play with default_fov 89/90, you can't suddenly "adjust" in the middle of a game, to another default_fov - it changes a lot - for me at least - when turning fast. It changes my feeling of where I am, how fast I'm going etc.
Being unable to unluck it, and now being unable to climb over railings (i have to go around them - so the marines are sure to hear me) - finally filled the bottle for me.
Up to this point i have been silent, patient, and trying to adjust. But seing the game being changed over and over and over again just took the last out of my patience.
And hey - a good skulk could easily kill a backwards-jumping marine in 1.00-1.04 - i still see no reason for this anti-jumping-stuff.
________READ BELOW BEFORE YOU FLAME________ :p
Finally, like you said, there really is nothing to debate here, this is mostly an oppinion - mine - shared by a few other people who now no longer play NS.
And no, I won't damn Flayra. I think he's doing a great job.
I damn all the whiners and their "great ideas" on how to change the game, for their part in this. If you cant kill a jumping marine in NS1.04, GET BETTER ffs......... :)
EOD
First, bunnyhopping:
Do it IRL, see if you go faster. You wont. Yes, I know this is a game, but this game attempts to be semi-lifelike. This is why we dont have lasers or little hunter robots. You just would not see them, and they don't fit in. Bunnyhopping can join this.
Second, FOV:
You really won't have a problem with the FOV unless you come from a game that has it really hard. It allows you to see more then you could before, and it works perfectly. I have no complaints about it, its the perfect angle now.
Third, this quote:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hell, spend hours, days, weeks, months putting together fine-tuned precise team tactics - then _someone_ _thinks_ that they want to "balance" the game......(although the game was just fine before) and it all gets changed, and your tactics are worth ****. Fine, things change. So we refine the tactics. And then, hey, it gets changed AGAIN. WOohoo.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you think, JP/HMG rush is not a tatic, it is annoying. It *needed* to be fixed, no question about it. And if you spend that long putting together tatics, its better to learn to work as a TEAM, don't worry about the tatics. If you know that your team will cover you, and you trust them, the tatics can be made up on the fly. The best team is one that adapts dynamically to the situation, how well do you thing SWAT team would do if they followed the same plan every time, down to the smallest details? They would suck, the enemy would expect exactly what they do. The best thing you can do is take a team of marines that trust each other, give them various weapons/upgrades, and tell them to do something. Let the team decide how to approach this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most client-side variables have been locked, so now we all have the same field-of-vision (NON-STANDARD?? WHY???), the same brightness (which in this case is DARK), so now you can no longer play by feeling, because you can't see ****, or at least not fast enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some client side variables have been locked, for example, the variable that allowed you to hide your gun, this resulted in the muzzle flash not showing, giving you an advantage. Maybe you are expecting the game to adapt itself to your settings for brighness and FOV, this wont work. There is a program included with NS that allows you to set your gamma/brightness up correctly. It works fine if you run it, it dosen't work by magic though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's next? Disable EAX and A3D, to "BALANCE" the game for people with no stereo sound, same as in CS???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I highly doubt this, EAX does not work in NS, this is not for balance, but technical reasons. Also, it dosen't seem that there is mono sound in CS, I can tell where people are.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Today i found that skulks can no longer climb over railings (?!?!??!) WTH??? When was that decided??? AGAIN, my attack-patterns on the maps i am used to are worthless because there are railings everywhere. i guess skulks will end up not being able to leap also, because it's "unbalanced"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was mentioned before, railings are a glitch. Think like a skulk, use the walls and ceiling instead of the floor, you will be surprised at how much easier it is to kill a marine
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The balance was supposed to be between the marines and the aliens - not the beginners and the veterans.
If i wanted to play CS, i would play CS - not integrate the noob-friendly movement-stuff into other good games and ruin them :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game is balenced between marines and aliens. But if you have a player that cant shoot, how can you balance the game? The aliens have advantages, you just need some skill to use them, the marines are more the run in and kill stuff, and require less skill.
Edit: Got rid of flames, flamed in the heat of the moment, srry anyone that had to read them
As for the post - as far as I can tell (from changelogs as well as experience) movement of marines has been mor eor less unaltered since 2.0. I don't see why you're so bothered. It's not like it's impossible to circle-strafe/dodge by jumping. It's just harder. Which takes more skill. Which you say you like. What's the problem?
The marine walk speed. It is, in all honestly, stupid. You go faster crawling and you still don't make a sound
and the fact that railings and some ladders mess up the skulk (i remember once tryint to escape from 4 marines and running THROUGH a ladder. That was annoying), but i know that's being worked on, so i'm not that bothered.
I know the post was only your opinion, but your opinion is one that should probably be kept to yourself. And i'm a man who likes people to speak their mind, but not when it seems to be a direct attack at people who made you a game FOR FREE, and did NOT force you to play it.
Sorry, the game isn't going to sit still. The dev team will move to block off exploitables, improve gameplay, and so on. Of course, we'll have people who used to take advantage of said blocked-off wonderment (backward bunny-hopping, anyone?) that will feel slighted as their 'skills' are struck down, and they are unable to cheat. So, they make posts as the one above about the 'n00bification' of the game, to vent.
But sooner or later, every vent spewing hot air will get <span style='color:red'>*LOCKED.*</span>