Mrines Are Guaranteed 100% Win On Some Maps
godzilla21
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17022Members
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17022Members
On some maps Marines are guranteed 100% win just by relocating to one of three Hives.
One example is Waste Handling on ns_tanith.
Below is the game I have just played on LGSO killing Field server.
Alien start hive was Sat Com. Marines relocated to Waste Hnadling.
We Aliens secured Reactor Room and we never allowed Marines to expand outside Waste Handling until Fusion hive is up.
During most of the time marines have only 1-3 RTs. On the other hand we aliens have 7-9 RTs.
After Fusion is up we constantly kept 9 RTs and marines had only 1 RT in waste.
This means alien players are skillful enough. At least they are more skillful than marines.
But we could never take down Waste. They built turret farm around RT in Waste and spammed GL from there.
This stalemate kept on 2 hours. And at last when they all got HA with HMG/GL, they came out Wsate Handling.
There is no need for me to tell you what happend after that. You can imagine the game result.
I disconnected from the server when we lost Fusion.
There are some other maps that are similar to this.
One reason why this kind of stalemates happen is the map design which is unfriendly to Onos.
But the main reason is lack of alien's ranged weapons at 2 Hives.
Acid Rocket should be back as 2 Hive weapon.
One example is Waste Handling on ns_tanith.
Below is the game I have just played on LGSO killing Field server.
Alien start hive was Sat Com. Marines relocated to Waste Hnadling.
We Aliens secured Reactor Room and we never allowed Marines to expand outside Waste Handling until Fusion hive is up.
During most of the time marines have only 1-3 RTs. On the other hand we aliens have 7-9 RTs.
After Fusion is up we constantly kept 9 RTs and marines had only 1 RT in waste.
This means alien players are skillful enough. At least they are more skillful than marines.
But we could never take down Waste. They built turret farm around RT in Waste and spammed GL from there.
This stalemate kept on 2 hours. And at last when they all got HA with HMG/GL, they came out Wsate Handling.
There is no need for me to tell you what happend after that. You can imagine the game result.
I disconnected from the server when we lost Fusion.
There are some other maps that are similar to this.
One reason why this kind of stalemates happen is the map design which is unfriendly to Onos.
But the main reason is lack of alien's ranged weapons at 2 Hives.
Acid Rocket should be back as 2 Hive weapon.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
2 hive attack was blink.
Remember?
But yeah I agree not enough range in the aliens now adays.
I agree making AR(acid rocket) weaker if it comes to 2 Hive. But this should be making AR weaker "against players".
Against structures AR should not be weakened.
However, waste handling is probably one of the least alien friendly hives in the game.
Usually when the marines do that, I just go gorge and start building a tower of chambers up to the top of the roof of refinery, or up into the white-glowing water condensor in Atmospheric. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It's about as effective as anything else the alien team can do.
rememeber that awesome 2 hive ability known as spore? lerks are your mid-game best friend. with only one RT marines are forced as LA for a long time. two or three lerks spore spamming and flying around wildly with adren/regen would have 0wned those 'rines.
only after the GLs have succumbed to the spores could you consider sending onos up. but I'd do hit and run with fades.
onos are powerful, but they're not the only option.
comedy gold!
Flayra better makes you quickly a PT for your grand reasoning skills
rememeber that awesome 2 hive ability known as spore? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you get spore on first hive, umbra second, primal scream third.
gg.
comedy gold!
Flayra better makes you quickly a PT for your grand reasoning skills <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hjahahah <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Do you understand we are playing on Pub Server ? Who wants to play a 120 minutes game ?
Our starting members left game saying "I got bored". And new players who are not skillful than our first members joined.
Res of leaving aliens will just disappear. But marines do not lose res when someone leaves the game.
It is a fact long game favours marines.
LOL!! Good luck getting a hive up while marines are standing there looking at it.
Now in 1.04, that would ROCK the game because you could throw up the hive and instantly warp there from any location where there was a movement chamber. I'm nearly positive they made 2.0x so that the hive has to be completed before you can "move" there.
But, as the HA team try to push out, you know that with 1 res, they wont be back if you get them,
That, if you get them, its time for counter attack.
I had a game where we relocate (forced cuz of skluk rush levelled the base) to pipeline.
- We survived for 45 minutes there
- We eventually push out by sieging alien advanced stuff and get a 2nd rt (PG+elec TF)
- We pushed even more and get a 3rd rt (PG+elec TF)
- Now the aliens are **** off and team up, they decide to take one problem after another and go for the RTS
- We lose lots of HA while defending RTs, those points are unable to stand concentrated assault (they are not individual wastelike)
- we lose as after sustaining lot of HA loss in defending the RTs, the aliens butt in Pipeline and we are washed up (no more weapons/HA/welders ...)
- Pipeline, wich standed for more than 45 minutes before, is destroyed in 30 seconds
There are places that are important.
So what ? You dont want everything to be levelled do you ? Waste is a place to look after as alien.
Processing is another and so forth ...
One example is Waste Handling on ns_tanith.
Below is the game I have just played on LGSO killing Field server.
Alien start hive was Sat Com. Marines relocated to Waste Hnadling.
We Aliens secured Reactor Room and we never allowed Marines to expand outside Waste Handling until Fusion hive is up.
During most of the time marines have only 1-3 RTs. On the other hand we aliens have 7-9 RTs.
After Fusion is up we constantly kept 9 RTs and marines had only 1 RT in waste.
This means alien players are skillful enough. At least they are more skillful than marines.
But we could never take down Waste. They built turret farm around RT in Waste and spammed GL from there.
This stalemate kept on 2 hours. And at last when they all got HA with HMG/GL, they came out Wsate Handling.
There is no need for me to tell you what happend after that. You can imagine the game result.
I disconnected from the server when we lost Fusion.
There are some other maps that are similar to this.
One reason why this kind of stalemates happen is the map design which is unfriendly to Onos.
But the main reason is lack of alien's ranged weapons at 2 Hives.
Acid Rocket should be back as 2 Hive weapon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The trick would be umbra and spores combined with fades blinking in and killing the TF...preferably BEFORE they get 200 turrets up
At the end they had enough res to go all ha and take us down in like 3 minutes.
ONOS WITHOUT CEL = DEAD <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
So if u suspect a 1rt 1 hive lockdown.. dont do sense if that server uses such tactics.. and ya with aliens owning all of the map but 1 hive if u dont use teamwork ofcourse u gonna loose (as with any match ...)(experianced that too) have yet to loose when ppl get organised thou... and mc dc combo..
Something i notice that when someone evolves to onos they are really scared of dying, if aliens were 1 to9 up then really you should just have the mind set of go in do as much damage as poss and then die, you got the res why are you so scared to use it.
Oh and a few fades that blink in to attack strategic structures like armory/tf/armslab while an onos and gorge attack the front does wonders. Another thing people should try is if an onos manages to get up the ladder, instead of trying to gore things, the onos should try to stomp everyone, since turrets to half damage and regen will fix that. After marines are stunned the fades/skulks come in to mop up. Have a gorge behind the onos to heal it, I know this requires teamwork but that is whats need to break the marine teamwork thats guarding their alamo.
I find that many of the new maps have really marine friendly hives, like sewer on mineshaft, any of the hives on origin, equilibrium on lost...
Do you understand we are playing on Pub Server ? Who wants to play a 120 minutes game ?
Our starting members left game saying "I got bored". And new players who are not skillful than our first members joined.
Res of leaving aliens will just disappear. But marines do not lose res when someone leaves the game.
It is a fact long game favours marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude...now you just contradicted yourself...
your saying the reason you lost was because of unskillful players, not because you were 100% Guaranteed to lose...
And, alien res and marine res are totally different, it doesnt matter if an alien leaves and loses all his res, it only matters that he left...
It's pretty obvious that it was your fault you lost not some kind of map fluke
I have been in this situation alot of times. I mean alot. It truely is a game killer because the aliens will give up and F4 more times than not. Also its common to find that an alien team starts to get bored and give up trying when these standoffs happen. This allows the marines to save for multiply HA/GL teams and as soon as that happens and the kharaa team starts to lose, ppl will give up and quit.
Its foolish to save that anymap is going to give the rines a 100% advantage. I would say that ns_origin is the most ONOS unfriendly map and I still see aliens win there more times than not.
Something i notice that when someone evolves to onos they are really scared of dying, if aliens were 1 to9 up then really you should just have the mind set of go in do as much damage as poss and then die, you got the res why are you so scared to use it.
Oh and a few fades that blink in to attack strategic structures like armory/tf/armslab while an onos and gorge attack the front does wonders. Another thing people should try is if an onos manages to get up the ladder, instead of trying to gore things, the onos should try to stomp everyone, since turrets to half damage and regen will fix that. After marines are stunned the fades/skulks come in to mop up. Have a gorge behind the onos to heal it, I know this requires teamwork but that is whats need to break the marine teamwork thats guarding their alamo.
I find that many of the new maps have really marine friendly hives, like sewer on mineshaft, any of the hives on origin, equilibrium on lost... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tell you, we tried it all. marines were spread out so you couldn't stomp them all, and anyways they had turrets and stuff blocking the way so you couldn't really move around as onos while up the ramp. don't forget they had sieges to back them up when needed. we attacked and died, but what's the use of dying when it only gives you 1 second more of damage, and then you have to wait until evolving to onos again? it's much faster to redempt and march back in...
We tried teamwork and all sorts of tactics, I tell you. Heck, we even managed a couple of times to stomp and kill half the marines and do some damage before dying/redempting, but by the time we got back the marines just fixed it all again....
gorge bile was useless. gorge had about 3 seconds lifspan when inside the hive before dying, and that's not enough to get into range.
BTW, we had dcs and mcs, But we still couldn't win. We tried for about 3 hours. the whole game took about 3.5 hours (!)
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