<!--QuoteBegin--verbose+Sep 25 2003, 08:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (verbose @ Sep 25 2003, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Sep 25 2003, 07:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Sep 25 2003, 07:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the way CD stops wallhacks, by moving the player models about that you cant "see" yet is by doing this, it does it all the time, causing hit reg problems, hense why the "upper"skill of players dont like it much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect. Hits are handled by the server. <i>However</i>, there was a nasty <b>metamod</b> bug where some models would not line up properly with their hitboxes. This was corrected back in May with Metamod release 1.16. I'm not sure this bug even affected NS.
If you can provide some evidence of C-D causing hit-registration problems, I'm sure UA would love to see it. "Upper" players claim this all the time, yet nothing is ever furnished. I suspect it's a problem with paranoia; they're so convinced that C-D will hurt their gameplay, that it actually does so by the placebo-effect. You could probably furnish them with a completely benign C-D client that did absolutely nothing, and they'd still claim it was screwing up their aim. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you are probably right <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
k than i give you a good reason why i dont use c-d at all i dont have to upgrade my server now like others with c-d it runs and it runs well with lots of regular friendly players i dont need c-d because - im not cheating - others on my server arent too - and most importent: its just a game for me so not a full time job not a runaway from cheaters its a game where the people i play with i choose by myself sorry guys for any problems that sorry individuals cause on your publics but mine is public too and not at all dependent on any of that
btw it seems like the less-nervous players find themselves here without gettin more harrassed by cheaters at all
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Sep 25 2003, 08:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Sep 25 2003, 08:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--verbose+Sep 25 2003, 08:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (verbose @ Sep 25 2003, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Sep 25 2003, 07:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Sep 25 2003, 07:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the way CD stops wallhacks, by moving the player models about that you cant "see" yet is by doing this, it does it all the time, causing hit reg problems, hense why the "upper"skill of players dont like it much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect. Hits are handled by the server. <i>However</i>, there was a nasty <b>metamod</b> bug where some models would not line up properly with their hitboxes. This was corrected back in May with Metamod release 1.16. I'm not sure this bug even affected NS.
If you can provide some evidence of C-D causing hit-registration problems, I'm sure UA would love to see it. "Upper" players claim this all the time, yet nothing is ever furnished. I suspect it's a problem with paranoia; they're so convinced that C-D will hurt their gameplay, that it actually does so by the placebo-effect. You could probably furnish them with a completely benign C-D client that did absolutely nothing, and they'd still claim it was screwing up their aim. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you are probably right <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think i've ever seen him post when he is incorrect <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, suspision arises for me as well when someone refuses to get CD. There is no reason to not to run it
<!--QuoteBegin--flitzebogen+Sep 26 2003, 02:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (flitzebogen @ Sep 26 2003, 02:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont need c-d because - im not cheating - others on my server arent too <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The point of CD is that you don't need to know or trust any of your regulars/clan mates not to cheat. If you don't run anti-cheat software on your server you will get cheaters eventually.
However I do admit cheating is more a problem for the popular/large scale server operators than it is for the average hobbyist/clan server. Comes down to simple statistics. The more people going through your server, the more cheaters.
Well there isnt anything that is going to make me switch over to using c-d on my server anyway, most everyone I know dispises it, including my hosting company. They made a very good statement to me about using C-D on my server, and they convinced me not to use it. C-D just has too many problems and create lags. I will state again that you should just use admins to keep the peace on it.
[edit]I will quote the exact words they sent to me on their thoughts of using C-D on my server later today[/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--[TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen]+Sep 26 2003, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen] @ Sep 26 2003, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> C-D just has too many problems and create lags. [edit]I will quote the exact words they sent to me on their thoughts of using C-D on my server later today[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just don't think that's accurate. The challenge packet for C-D is something like 22 bytes, and it's only sent every minute or so...
I'm eagerly awaiting the thoughts of your hosting company. My guess is that there *real* reason is simply that it adds one more thing for them to worry about...
<!--QuoteBegin--((TUNA)) : : Anoma|y+Sep 26 2003, 12:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (((TUNA)) : : Anoma|y @ Sep 26 2003, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--[TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen]+Sep 26 2003, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen] @ Sep 26 2003, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> C-D just has too many problems and create lags. [edit]I will quote the exact words they sent to me on their thoughts of using C-D on my server later today[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I just don't think that's accurate. The challenge packet for C-D is something like 22 bytes, and it's only sent every minute or so...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...and before someone posts that C-D taxes the server's CPU, it doesn't. All the server component does is verify C-D clients. Everything else is done on the client machine.
Server: "If you're the real thing, you'll know the right response when I give you this: eixk20alkc" Client: "Wasssupppp! 38alibh9akslk" Server: "W0rd. Game on."
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 26 2003, 02:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 26 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My god, if you can't run C-D on your server because it causes issues, then you deserve a slap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not because I cant, I just WILL NOT switch over. Nothing any of you say will convince me to change to C-D. I hear too many problems with it, and cheaters can be stopped by admins, so what good does it do?!?!?!?! I'm NOT going to install it, unless the leauge requires I do or something. So why argue with me over something so useless in my view.
My hosting providor is GibGames. <a href='http://www.gibgames.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.gibgames.com/</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--[TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen]+Sep 26 2003, 04:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen] @ Sep 26 2003, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 26 2003, 02:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 26 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My god, if you can't run C-D on your server because it causes issues, then you deserve a slap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not because I cant, I just WILL NOT switch over. Nothing any of you say will convince me to change to C-D. I hear too many problems with it, and cheaters can be stopped by admins, so what good does it do?!?!?!?! I'm NOT going to install it, unless the leauge requires I do or something. So why argue with me over something so useless in my view.
My hosting providor is GibGames. <a href='http://www.gibgames.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.gibgames.com/</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You hear too many problems with it(which you can't verify and don't forget... there are hundreds of CD servers, at the very least, that run smoothly as they do without CD), CD works without admins, and what good does it do?
So it stops somewhere over 90% of the hacks out there, it never harms the innocent, and you say it's useless... right. You are right, we don't need CD, and we also don't need doctors, because they can't stop everything either, and you've heard too many problems with them.
Why be in this thread if you don't wan't to argue wether using C-D or not using C-D is a good thing? This is after all what the thread was created for. I don't think anyone is bothered that you are not running C-D on your server but why you don't.
And yes I agree, it is a valid concern that C-D can cause lag, however this is through bugs on the client side, it affects some users, those using a buggy beta C-D would be the most likely to have these problems. Then there are those few who have wildcat cards and got a false detection saying they had modified their system quite recently and other such minor screwups. There are some problems with C-D but they are quite few IMHO, and it does very much reduce the paranoid players in my experience. Players that are paranoid and accuse everyone of cheating is worse than cheaters by far in my experience.
Some players just have to go "OMG joo r all teh haxxors!!111" everytime they die on pubs, these people either can't be bothered to join C-D servers because they are stupid(which is good) or they don't get as paranoid because C-D has only a few cheats that can beat it, VAC has cheats that are over a year old and still not being detected. Of course, better VAC than nothing at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--cracker jackmac+Sep 25 2003, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cracker jackmac @ Sep 25 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, suspision arises for me as well when someone refuses to get CD. There is no reason to not to run it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ok here's my reason for not running it... It crashes my half-life. Most of the time I can't even open in, and other times, if i get to my server filter and double-click a server, boom, crash to desktop. And yes, I'm 100% sure it's CD, because without it, I never have any problems.
CD does not lag the server. I have a 16 player NS server running on a P3-933. With or without CD makes little difference to the cpu usage.
However, CD does cause some extra lag on the client machines (a known bug). Especially if you have to use the process monitoring junk. But most of my regulars are pretty serious gamers so they have good rigs. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
People who claim it is bad, causes lag, bans people, distorts aim, are just plain old wrong. It's a miniscule program, causes no lag unless you have like 1mb of RAM and takes up only a few bytes of traffic every minute. People who say otherwise just don't know what they are talking about.
There ARE reasons for not using CD, here they are:
- It's inconvenient for players to download. - It's another thing you need to do as server op - It will lower the traffic on your server
The thing is... two of those are also reasons FOR using it. Our server had way too much traffic, so we installed CD. Now only people who really want to play there will join. Only people who are prepared to make that effort can join. Guess what, this sorts out 95% of the Llamas. Llamas can't generally be bothered, they can just go and be lame at any of the no-CD servers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course it also keeps the server free from cheats but that's not a big problem anyway, the real problem is *cheat accusations* ruining the atmosphere, because of the general paranoia on the internet. This is also solved.
However, it is a GOOD THING that not all servers run CD. If all the servers ran CD, everyone would download it and the Llama-filter function would go away. It would also encourage people to find ways to hack it, since they wouldn't be able to cheat otherwise. Now, if you want to cheat, it's just SO much easier to go to one of the many no-CD servers.
So, thanks for NOT running CD on your server, I'm quite happy running it on mine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS. If you have a low-traffic server I recommend AGAINST installing it since it is likely to kill whatever traffic you have.
Well since I have no statistics to back me up I'll accept a llama-decrease of only 90%, I still say it *feels* like 95% though <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Qwerty+Sep 26 2003, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Qwerty @ Sep 26 2003, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> C-D isnt perfect there are many anti "C-D" hacks out there. if you were to download a hack for ns chances of c-d detecting it isnt toooo high <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say the chances of C-D detecting your randomly downloaded cheat are about...0%. It prevents cheats from working correctly; it doesn't detect them. Sure, the popular cheat sites (and some not-so-well-known ones) list CD-proof cheats, but have you tried them? They don't work. Perhaps a few worked, to some degree, against an older version of C-D, but that's irrelevant when newer C-D versions are out. If you really have this handful of working cheats, I'd love to be PM'd details. Or rather, since I'm not a C-D developer, you should take that information straight to United Admins. Be sure to follow the forum rules when posting information about cheats.
C-D does detect some 'modifications to your system'(such as having a wildcat card currently I'm afraid <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->), and gives you an error code and drops you from the server. But most cheats are merely prevented from hooking into the client dll and gathering the information they need to function as an aimbot etc. This works with most cheats withoutspecial coding. AFAIK most cheats for NS are not specifically made or ported to NS, I think any HL cheat that is not MOD specific will work with any MOD(mod specific could be something such as an aimbot aiming for the head of the opposing team in CS, aliens won't have their head in the right place, and there is no locational damage so this would probably work with NS but definetly not as intended).
VAC does detect cheats, it uses the 'signature' of various cheats(and probably some permutations too) to find and identify them. This is vunerable to people making custom cheats by taking the source for some cheat and playing with it a bit and then compiling it. If a cheat does not work with C-D no 'permutations' of the same cheat doing the same thing should work either. And as for people saying you cannot test cheats over and over with VAC because VAC is not forgiving but C-D is(it prevents the cheats from working), thats not true, there are ways to test with VAC without risking a global ban. One redeeming feature of VAC is that it can be updated at any time making your hacks useless and baning you from all VAC servers, this is however unlikely if you are using some private cheat.
CD does cause Some amount of lag. We had to take it down and found that our server suddenly went from a constant 200 ping to 100ping. The proof is in the pudding. CD does take up Bandwidth and cpu usage it has to, plus with the way that HLDS and NS works we need every bit of performance.
Our solution is plenty of admins that are not worried to use their power.
For those that will say, "oh you must have so little ram and such"
Just popping in to add to the list the reason why the servers I help out with don't run CD.
False sense of security.
CD is very forgiving and offers trial-and-error testing to would be cheaters if they are too lazy to check to see if they need to update thier cheats to get around it. For CS for example, there are more cheats avaliable that get around CD than VAC, but if the server you want to cheat on doesn't run VAC and you want to cheat, you know you can just try again and again. I know that NS doesn't have the luxury of VAC yet, but it is quite upsetting to see people ignoring someone that is cheating purely because the server runs CD. I don't think I will go as far as saying it adds a saftey net for cheaters, but too many people put too much faith in it.
That said however, all the servers I work with are on a closed network (need to run an aplication to even be able to ping the game server farm), so that removes the random cheating factor. I guess alot of it just comes down to administrative presence and community support. If you dont have admins on fairly often, dont have an easy to use incident reporting interface, or dont have players that are willing to demo and use your incident reporting - then CD would be an ideal next best thing (perhaps until VAC comes along?).
Most of the comments above are quite right, I would like to point out once again that C-D should never be considered an alternative to good admins. It's an additional, helpful tool.
It does act as a llama filter and most cheaters will simply find a non-protected server to make life easier. Astute admins will notice something is wrong when a player has a working C-D hack. In the same way an astute admin will notice a cheater.
I see C-D a bit like a padlock on your pushbike. OK, so people *can* pick the lock. Some might even take bolt croppers to it one day. Your bike would probably be safer if you were stood next to it... but what if you stood next to it *and* locked it?
<!--QuoteBegin--Emanon+Sep 29 2003, 01:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Sep 29 2003, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CD does cause Some amount of lag. We had to take it down and found that our server suddenly went from a constant 200 ping to 100ping. The proof is in the pudding. CD does take up Bandwidth and cpu usage it has to, plus with the way that HLDS and NS works we need every bit of performance.
Our solution is plenty of admins that are not worried to use their power.
For those that will say, "oh you must have so little ram and such"
2.6ghz 1gb ram duel T1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've seen countless servers that have used C-D no problems. In fact, a large large majority. The problem is on your side, pal.
C-D sends one challenge packet every couple of minutes at 22-bytes. Jeez, this makes your comp lag that much?
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
CD is all fine and good, however some server admins don't use it becuase they don't bother, and they have lots of admins who know what they are doing to watch for people
CD's record of effectiveness trounces that of VAC's. The VAC updates are coming a little more frequently these days, but don't appear to be anywhere near sufficient. Heck, the high-profile works started by Joolz (I shall refrain from naming cheats, but anyone at all familiar with combating cheats will know excatly what I'm talking about) are still running strong, undetected. I would think one of the highest VAC priorities would be to squash the high-distribution cheats as soon as possible, even if it means an "update war of attrition". Not doing so makes VAC virtually worthless.
C D, Half-Life Guard and a good bunch of Admins is about as secure as any puplic server will ever be. We've been using this set up for over 6 months now and have no complaints.
Comments
Incorrect. Hits are handled by the server. <i>However</i>, there was a nasty <b>metamod</b> bug where some models would not line up properly with their hitboxes. This was corrected back in May with Metamod release 1.16. I'm not sure this bug even affected NS.
If you can provide some evidence of C-D causing hit-registration problems, I'm sure UA would love to see it. "Upper" players claim this all the time, yet nothing is ever furnished. I suspect it's a problem with paranoia; they're so convinced that C-D will hurt their gameplay, that it actually does so by the placebo-effect. You could probably furnish them with a completely benign C-D client that did absolutely nothing, and they'd still claim it was screwing up their aim. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are probably right <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i dont have to upgrade my server now like others with c-d
it runs and it runs well with lots of regular friendly players
i dont need c-d because
- im not cheating
- others on my server arent too
- and most importent:
its just a game for me
so not a full time job
not a runaway from cheaters
its a game where the people i play with i choose by myself
sorry guys for any problems that sorry individuals cause on your publics
but mine is public too and not at all dependent on any of that
btw it seems like the less-nervous players find themselves here without gettin more harrassed by cheaters at all
Incorrect. Hits are handled by the server. <i>However</i>, there was a nasty <b>metamod</b> bug where some models would not line up properly with their hitboxes. This was corrected back in May with Metamod release 1.16. I'm not sure this bug even affected NS.
If you can provide some evidence of C-D causing hit-registration problems, I'm sure UA would love to see it. "Upper" players claim this all the time, yet nothing is ever furnished. I suspect it's a problem with paranoia; they're so convinced that C-D will hurt their gameplay, that it actually does so by the placebo-effect. You could probably furnish them with a completely benign C-D client that did absolutely nothing, and they'd still claim it was screwing up their aim. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are probably right <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think i've ever seen him post when he is incorrect <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, suspision arises for me as well when someone refuses to get CD. There is no reason to not to run it
- im not cheating
- others on my server arent too
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point of CD is that you don't need to know or trust any of your regulars/clan mates not to cheat. If you don't run anti-cheat software on your server you will get cheaters eventually.
However I do admit cheating is more a problem for the popular/large scale server operators than it is for the average hobbyist/clan server. Comes down to simple statistics. The more people going through your server, the more cheaters.
[edit]I will quote the exact words they sent to me on their thoughts of using C-D on my server later today[/edit]
I just don't think that's accurate. The challenge packet for C-D is something like 22 bytes, and it's only sent every minute or so...
I'm eagerly awaiting the thoughts of your hosting company. My guess is that there *real* reason is simply that it adds one more thing for them to worry about...
I just don't think that's accurate. The challenge packet for C-D is something like 22 bytes, and it's only sent every minute or so...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...and before someone posts that C-D taxes the server's CPU, it doesn't. All the server component does is verify C-D clients. Everything else is done on the client machine.
Server: "If you're the real thing, you'll know the right response when I give you this: eixk20alkc"
Client: "Wasssupppp! 38alibh9akslk"
Server: "W0rd. Game on."
[TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen], who's your hosting provider?
Its not because I cant, I just WILL NOT switch over. Nothing any of you say will convince me to change to C-D. I hear too many problems with it, and cheaters can be stopped by admins, so what good does it do?!?!?!?! I'm NOT going to install it, unless the leauge requires I do or something. So why argue with me over something so useless in my view.
My hosting providor is GibGames. <a href='http://www.gibgames.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.gibgames.com/</a>
we have heavely admined server so that helps , if there is a cheater then there is always some1 around
Its not because I cant, I just WILL NOT switch over. Nothing any of you say will convince me to change to C-D. I hear too many problems with it, and cheaters can be stopped by admins, so what good does it do?!?!?!?! I'm NOT going to install it, unless the leauge requires I do or something. So why argue with me over something so useless in my view.
My hosting providor is GibGames. <a href='http://www.gibgames.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.gibgames.com/</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You hear too many problems with it(which you can't verify and don't forget... there are hundreds of CD servers, at the very least, that run smoothly as they do without CD), CD works without admins, and what good does it do?
So it stops somewhere over 90% of the hacks out there, it never harms the innocent, and you say it's useless... right. You are right, we don't need CD, and we also don't need doctors, because they can't stop everything either, and you've heard too many problems with them.
And yes I agree, it is a valid concern that C-D can cause lag, however this is through bugs on the client side, it affects some users, those using a buggy beta C-D would be the most likely to have these problems. Then there are those few who have wildcat cards and got a false detection saying they had modified their system quite recently and other such minor screwups. There are some problems with C-D but they are quite few IMHO, and it does very much reduce the paranoid players in my experience. Players that are paranoid and accuse everyone of cheating is worse than cheaters by far in my experience.
Some players just have to go "OMG joo r all teh haxxors!!111" everytime they die on pubs, these people either can't be bothered to join C-D servers because they are stupid(which is good) or they don't get as paranoid because C-D has only a few cheats that can beat it, VAC has cheats that are over a year old and still not being detected. Of course, better VAC than nothing at all.
However, CD does cause some extra lag on the client machines (a known bug). Especially if you have to use the process monitoring junk. But most of my regulars are pretty serious gamers so they have good rigs. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
People who claim it is bad, causes lag, bans people, distorts aim, are just plain old wrong. It's a miniscule program, causes no lag unless you have like 1mb of RAM and takes up only a few bytes of traffic every minute. People who say otherwise just don't know what they are talking about.
There ARE reasons for not using CD, here they are:
- It's inconvenient for players to download.
- It's another thing you need to do as server op
- It will lower the traffic on your server
The thing is... two of those are also reasons FOR using it. Our server had way too much traffic, so we installed CD. Now only people who really want to play there will join. Only people who are prepared to make that effort can join. Guess what, this sorts out 95% of the Llamas. Llamas can't generally be bothered, they can just go and be lame at any of the no-CD servers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course it also keeps the server free from cheats but that's not a big problem anyway, the real problem is *cheat accusations* ruining the atmosphere, because of the general paranoia on the internet. This is also solved.
However, it is a GOOD THING that not all servers run CD. If all the servers ran CD, everyone would download it and the Llama-filter function would go away. It would also encourage people to find ways to hack it, since they wouldn't be able to cheat otherwise. Now, if you want to cheat, it's just SO much easier to go to one of the many no-CD servers.
So, thanks for NOT running CD on your server, I'm quite happy running it on mine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS. If you have a low-traffic server I recommend AGAINST installing it since it is likely to kill whatever traffic you have.
ya if you do make it CD Required it does cut down on the llama's considerably. but i'd only say 90% of the llama's
I'd say the chances of C-D detecting your randomly downloaded cheat are about...0%. It prevents cheats from working correctly; it doesn't detect them. Sure, the popular cheat sites (and some not-so-well-known ones) list CD-proof cheats, but have you tried them? They don't work. Perhaps a few worked, to some degree, against an older version of C-D, but that's irrelevant when newer C-D versions are out. If you really have this handful of working cheats, I'd love to be PM'd details. Or rather, since I'm not a C-D developer, you should take that information straight to United Admins. Be sure to follow the forum rules when posting information about cheats.
VAC does detect cheats, it uses the 'signature' of various cheats(and probably some permutations too) to find and identify them. This is vunerable to people making custom cheats by taking the source for some cheat and playing with it a bit and then compiling it. If a cheat does not work with C-D no 'permutations' of the same cheat doing the same thing should work either. And as for people saying you cannot test cheats over and over with VAC because VAC is not forgiving but C-D is(it prevents the cheats from working), thats not true, there are ways to test with VAC without risking a global ban. One redeeming feature of VAC is that it can be updated at any time making your hacks useless and baning you from all VAC servers, this is however unlikely if you are using some private cheat.
Our solution is plenty of admins that are not worried to use their power.
For those that will say, "oh you must have so little ram and such"
2.6ghz
1gb ram
duel T1
False sense of security.
CD is very forgiving and offers trial-and-error testing to would be cheaters if they are too lazy to check to see if they need to update thier cheats to get around it. For CS for example, there are more cheats avaliable that get around CD than VAC, but if the server you want to cheat on doesn't run VAC and you want to cheat, you know you can just try again and again.
I know that NS doesn't have the luxury of VAC yet, but it is quite upsetting to see people ignoring someone that is cheating purely because the server runs CD. I don't think I will go as far as saying it adds a saftey net for cheaters, but too many people put too much faith in it.
That said however, all the servers I work with are on a closed network (need to run an aplication to even be able to ping the game server farm), so that removes the random cheating factor.
I guess alot of it just comes down to administrative presence and community support. If you dont have admins on fairly often, dont have an easy to use incident reporting interface, or dont have players that are willing to demo and use your incident reporting - then CD would be an ideal next best thing (perhaps until VAC comes along?).
It does act as a llama filter and most cheaters will simply find a non-protected server to make life easier. Astute admins will notice something is wrong when a player has a working C-D hack. In the same way an astute admin will notice a cheater.
I see C-D a bit like a padlock on your pushbike. OK, so people *can* pick the lock. Some might even take bolt croppers to it one day. Your bike would probably be safer if you were stood next to it... but what if you stood next to it *and* locked it?
Our solution is plenty of admins that are not worried to use their power.
For those that will say, "oh you must have so little ram and such"
2.6ghz
1gb ram
duel T1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen countless servers that have used C-D no problems. In fact, a large large majority. The problem is on your side, pal.
C-D sends one challenge packet every couple of minutes at 22-bytes. Jeez, this makes your comp lag that much?
I would discuss more but I'm in class