3 Hive Aliens Need To Be Beefed Up
Tempus
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12540Members
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12540Members
<div class="IPBDescription">End games are taking forever...</div> Yes, you've probably heard it before, but the situation is actually worse than ever. With Onos' charge being completely neutered and the marine cost of equipment so low, the aliens have very little opportunity to finish games where the marines are determined to drag it out.
A perfect example of this is ns_caged. If the marines have had a decent enough game getting upgrades, there can be a situation where the aliens completely dominate the map, the marines are holed up in their base, and there is very little the aliens can do about it. They can charge in periodically, but with upgraded weapons and a few hmgs and shotties lying around, even an Onos won't survive for more than 5 seconds. Coordinated attacks don't get the job done. And the marines, with that one res node, can just wait it out until they've suited up an entire team of HA/HMG/GL/Shotties. Then, just wait in base for another alien surge, destroy everyone, and then march through the map uncontested.
This is not the way the game should be.
What the aliens need is for charge to actually be useful again, and acid rocket needs to be worthy of a 3 hive attack. Beef it up and increase the splash damage. Make primal scream more potent in some way.
3 hive aliens need to be brought back to where they were in 1.04, when they were actually something to be feared. Right now, they are a joke.
Thanks.
A perfect example of this is ns_caged. If the marines have had a decent enough game getting upgrades, there can be a situation where the aliens completely dominate the map, the marines are holed up in their base, and there is very little the aliens can do about it. They can charge in periodically, but with upgraded weapons and a few hmgs and shotties lying around, even an Onos won't survive for more than 5 seconds. Coordinated attacks don't get the job done. And the marines, with that one res node, can just wait it out until they've suited up an entire team of HA/HMG/GL/Shotties. Then, just wait in base for another alien surge, destroy everyone, and then march through the map uncontested.
This is not the way the game should be.
What the aliens need is for charge to actually be useful again, and acid rocket needs to be worthy of a 3 hive attack. Beef it up and increase the splash damage. Make primal scream more potent in some way.
3 hive aliens need to be brought back to where they were in 1.04, when they were actually something to be feared. Right now, they are a joke.
Thanks.
Comments
Otherwise marines ALWAYS have to secure one hive early wich is boring.
Pure RT without hives strat on marines is fun, you fight aliens with 3 hives but they cant do anything because you drop equipment nonstop and they are low on res because of building hives early.
You say that after they are teched-up they can march towards the hives and win. What games are you playing, I have never seen that.
You must play on some "really good servers" because I have never, never, seen them do that.......
Because the Aliens will just get **** after 2 hours of attacking the MS and just F4! .... Thats the even sadded part. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise marines ALWAYS have to secure one hive early wich is boring.
Pure RT without hives strat on marines is fun, you fight aliens with 3 hives but they cant do anything because you drop equipment nonstop and they are low on res because of building hives early. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, let us have the marines turtle in their base on 1 Resource Node and 50 Turrets off ONE Electrified Turret Factory, all in Heavy Armour....
Yeah that sounds like great fun for 20 minutes.....
Did I mention that getting anywhere near their base induces giant amount of lag? Hmmmmm.
Aliens just need to be a little more aggresive and coordinated. And xenocide is probably the strongest base breaker of all. Get cloaking as close up to the base as you can and start xenociding in waves. It won't hurt the structures but it will put the marine team in shambles. Then the onos can come in and start breaking the structures.
In that game in question we sat in base with 1 nozzle and equipped a team of HA in about 15 minutes. We marched out and got slaughtered. After 15 minutes we'd equipped another squad of HA and they moved out. This time the aliens came in and crushed the base while they were out. It was over pretty quick then, or would have been except the admin changed the map because people were sick of playing it out. That's pretty understandable. The game had already dragged on 30 minutes longer than it needed to.
So I guess some kind of standoff weaponry would be nice. Maybe a boost to acidrocket. But really all the aliens need is a little more coordination. They had so many easy sloppy wins in 2.0 that now they actually have to work as a team for them. This will get sorted out in a few weeks.
Umbra your little brains out
Celerity/Carapace/Xenocide -- anti-GL, anti-RT, anti-IP
Adrenaline/anyDupgrade/Bilebomb -- anti-turret
Adrenaline/Carapace/Spore Cloud -- anti-GL/armory humpers/fresh respawns
Celerity/Carapace-or-Redemption/Gore-or-Charge -- anti-turret
Adrenaline/Carapace/Blink/Swipe -- anti-personnel
One very cool tactic I read somewhere:
use Xenocide just before an Onos rush to throw marines across the room and disorient them.
Umbra your little brains out
Celerity/Carapace/Xenocide -- anti-GL, anti-RT, anti-IP
Adrenaline/anyDupgrade/Bilebomb -- anti-turret
Adrenaline/Carapace/Spore Cloud -- anti-GL/armory humpers/fresh respawns
Celerity/Carapace-or-Redemption/Gore-or-Charge -- anti-turret
Adrenaline/Carapace/Blink/Swipe -- anti-personnel
One very cool tactic I read somewhere:
use Xenocide just before an Onos rush to throw marines across the room and disorient them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Siege, and grenade spam, plus umbra is half-useless now. As well as CHARGE, which should be beefed to at least 300 dmg per second. Oh, and coil, usually marines focus fire on the most important target(which tends to be the gorge).
The thing that DOES work, is xenocide, but since its so weak(EDIT: well, it seems to be weak whenever you use it, it doesn't really even dent HA), people get very reluctant to use it. I still say it should be 250-400 damage, 2x to buildings or not.
Also, level 3 weapons=death
Poor fades :/
I agree 3 Hive alien power is not worth 3 Hive. But this is not the biggest problem.
What's really problem is the situation where marines relocate to a Hive.
Below is what I experienced today.
Map was ns_mineshaft, we aliens had 2 hives and all res node except sewer hive where marines relocated.
We had 9 RTs and they had only 1 RT. But the game never ends.
It took 1 hour and a half until we aliens decided to press F4 because we understood we can never win.
Sewer on ns_mineshaft is alomost impposible to take down even if all aliens are Onos. This map is quite unfriendly to Onos.
There are several Onos-unfriendly maps like this.
On these maps marines are guaranteed 100% win. All they have to do is just relocate to a Hive and wait.
Aliens really need powerful ranged weapons at 2 Hives.
What's really problem is the situation where marines relocate to a Hive.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree there. The problem is that the aliens have no ranged weapons at 2 hives, and can only run in to their death in that situation.
I think that giving the marines a <b>time limit </b>to clear the map of aliens would take care of this. Say, 45 minutes on the map, and if the marines have not won in that time, they should be considered the loser.
After all, it is the marines' job to clean out the infestastion from their ship, correct?
You can't solve a problem such as Hive or MS lockdown with a timer.
There are several Onos-unfriendly maps like this.
On these maps marines are guaranteed 100% win. All they have to do is just relocate to a Hive and wait.
Aliens really need powerful ranged weapons at 2 Hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your problem is thinking that an all-Onos team should be an instant winner. You'll notice that Onos was the last thing I listed; frankly, I think Bile Bomb and Umbra are a much more potent combo. Onos are decoys to attract fire while the Bile Bomb rips the base apart.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=48514' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=48514</a>
If that isn't possible, acid rockets.
One of the most defendable positions on any map is Hera Reception on ns_hera. Max upgraded Marines in HA there, this is how we solve it:
Get a load of M and D chambers up at the end of the hallway leading from MS to Hera. Have 3-4 Fades there, with Umbra from a lerk who's hanging back. Everyone just spam acid.
The rest of the team just keep attacking in waves, xeno skulks, devouring/stomping onos and suicide bilebombing gorges. Base down.
There is NO way to stop an Alien team with 3 hives and plenty of res. No way. The ONLY reasons it takes long is:
- Alien players are stupid. They don't realise what the correct way of doing it is.
- Alien players are lazy. They know they've won so they just mess around while Marines slowly reach their end tech.
The problem that induces "stalemates" like this is that when a hive isn't being attacked and aliens are winning, they refuse to use teamwork. Skulks just run in and die, feeding Marines res (usually giving the COM more like 2-3 nodes then 1), lerks spore, gorges lame up other parts of the map and onos just wait outside the base for someone to devour.
The problem isn't the game, it's you.
I also have to add that ranged weapons won't do diddly, because you've to SEE your target, and if you can see rines, they can see you.
Second, said ranged weapons would need to be overpowering to even equal CC attacks.
Thirdly, such weapons would have to come in at hive 2 in order to break a marine third hive lock.
Which subsequently overpowers aliens into campers.
If your alien team lacks teamwork and coordination, then tough luck. Its harsh but thats the way it is.
A marine win is ended with a heavy train walking through or some siege turrets blasting while HA fend off aliens. A alien win is ended after a long stalemate of planning on how to tackle a grenade launcher on a perch and a turret farm blocking the way.
people told me to basically SUYF and that i was an idiot <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise marines ALWAYS have to secure one hive early wich is boring.
Pure RT without hives strat on marines is fun, you fight aliens with 3 hives but they cant do anything because you drop equipment nonstop and they are low on res because of building hives early. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read his post? He said if the aliens are dominating the map and the marines only have MS node...
And its not 3rd hive aliens that need a boost. Its turret farms that need a nerf. Much like in war3: frozen throne, towers should be good early but useless late game against tier 3 units. Giving turrets light damage don't help here, it just make turret farms grow larger, thus making impossible for anything but an Onos to come in.
I think TFs should only be able to give power to 6 turrets maximum, and limit TFs to a maximum of 3 per room = 18 turrets max. And take off light damage from turrets. That should do it.