The Onos Charge Needs To Be Tweaked
Fang-CE
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11946Members
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11946Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Only a small change is needed</div> I noticed the other topics on how to speed up the Alien end game, but this topic is dedicated to solely discussing tweaking the onos charge. 2.01 has done quite a bit to solve balance issues and greatly speed up the end game situations. But the alien end game can still be a little too slow.
With the last few releases, onos charge has been standardized so that it is not FPS dependent. However, its damage level is still too low. In an alien end game situation, this doesn't give the aliens an increased ability to do damage to marines holed up in their base. It is just as easy/difficult to kill a fortified marine base with a hive 2 onos as with a hive 3 onos. I personally don't use charge anymore except as a way to make my onos move very quickly. Rather than increasing any other aliens 3rd hive ability, which would affect the marines "many res nodes, no hives" strategy, if charge was just increased, it would very specifically help make the alien endgame occur faster.
With HMG still giving out piercing damage, just one or two onos still won't be able to do much harm even with a more advanced charge. So if the marines have a majority of the nodes, but no hives, this tweak shouldn't be too much of a problem. But for those Marine last stands at their start, a coordinated assault with the whole alien team on onos (+1 lerk) should be a quick game ender. A large scale coordinated assault with the aliens highest life form, and highest attack should be the alien game ender. Increasing the usefulness of the highest, most expensive attack would be in line with the game philosophy.
At a minimum, charge's damage level should be the same as Gore, the level 0 attack. (I don't believe it is, but correct me if I'm wrong) Though personally I'd like to see it near double the level 0 attack.
With the last few releases, onos charge has been standardized so that it is not FPS dependent. However, its damage level is still too low. In an alien end game situation, this doesn't give the aliens an increased ability to do damage to marines holed up in their base. It is just as easy/difficult to kill a fortified marine base with a hive 2 onos as with a hive 3 onos. I personally don't use charge anymore except as a way to make my onos move very quickly. Rather than increasing any other aliens 3rd hive ability, which would affect the marines "many res nodes, no hives" strategy, if charge was just increased, it would very specifically help make the alien endgame occur faster.
With HMG still giving out piercing damage, just one or two onos still won't be able to do much harm even with a more advanced charge. So if the marines have a majority of the nodes, but no hives, this tweak shouldn't be too much of a problem. But for those Marine last stands at their start, a coordinated assault with the whole alien team on onos (+1 lerk) should be a quick game ender. A large scale coordinated assault with the aliens highest life form, and highest attack should be the alien game ender. Increasing the usefulness of the highest, most expensive attack would be in line with the game philosophy.
At a minimum, charge's damage level should be the same as Gore, the level 0 attack. (I don't believe it is, but correct me if I'm wrong) Though personally I'd like to see it near double the level 0 attack.
Comments
Decided i'll keep my stress to myself from now on and stick to my posting were i know im correct.
Apologies to fang if i offended you.
P.S Just get very anoyyed watching the forums slowly turn into the CS ones. People posting were the shouldnt, lack of use of the search button. Countless steam threads all about the same thing just does my head in.
Guess i decided id just take my anger out on you.
I'm pulling my rebuttal since Jasp kindly pulled his post.
Aliens need an Endgame...: The topic starter is suggesting that multiple upgrades be allowed by growing additions to hives. Tweaking charge damage is off topic since its not discussing the idea being presented.
3 Hive Aliens Need To Be Beefed Up: This topic is discussing making changes to ALL 3rd hive attacks. Rather than hijack this poster's discussion about all those changes, I choose to start a topic with a very specific focus.
So back on topic: Any thoughts on charge damage levels and why this is the only tweak needed? Any word from playtesters that this will be modified would also be appreciated.
according to the last changelog I read the dmg was 120 per second, how much dmg does gore do? ~blink~
gore hits twice? ~blink~
I don't go oni so I never noticed before =3
from what I've read most people just end up using charge as an onos blink but as a 4th weap that doesn't seem right =/
Were you hitting structures? Gore does 180 damage against structures, 90 against non-structures.
Oh, and it isn't a plugin. It's a server variable; mp_drawdamage.
o_0 It isn't meant to be an end-game weapon. This game is now a control the res game, not control the hives game. It is very effective at taking out marines still, and keeps you moving fast enough that you won't die before you can escape. It is the surgical usefulness of weaponry.
Second wrongth: this is a suggestion. There is a suggestion forum, where you should post suggestions in the future.
Third wrongth: This topic0 has come up before. Next time, search for this post (most likely in the suggestions forum) and post in the propper area.
<span style='color:white'>Random caps and personal attacks only make you look stupid, my friend. You should thank me for fixing your post.</span>
Were you hitting structures? Gore does 180 damage against structures, 90 against non-structures.
Oh, and it isn't a plugin. It's a server variable; mp_drawdamage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure? I thought it was 120 vs non-structures, 240 vs structures.
FINALLY, someone who UNDERSTANDS! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I need a hug *explodes* SPOOGE!!
Well, mp_drawdamage shows 90 damage against non-structures and 180 against structures, and the <a href='http://www.nonoobs.com/damage.php' target='_blank'>NS 2.0 Damage Simulator</a> supports these numbers.
Gore does 90 damage per shot, at two shots per second, for 180 damage per second.
Gore also has double damage vs. structures, range, and it doesn't sap your energy bar after four seconds.
Honestly, I think Onos are a total waste of resources. Anti-structure and anti-personel can be taken care of by the other lifeforms for cheaper. The only reason Onos are "tough" is a lot of people don't know where their hitbox is. The Onos three hive ability is worse then it's zero hive ability. It you get to the point where you <i>need</i> Onos to combat HA/HMG trains, you'll probably lose anyway since HMGs rape everything and you can't keep everyone stomped unless they're in a nice, neat line for you.
Too bad it's a moot point. Onos are almost a non-issue. If aliens stop marine expansion, it's usually done with Skulks, Lerks and Fades, so Onos show up for that final attack on MS just so they can say they went Onos. If you don't stop marine expansion, when Onos show up, marines can either force redeems with 2-3 LMG marines, or drop a pair of HMGs and kill regen/cara Onos. I never hear about Onos use in clan matches, so I must assume that they're a non-issue in the clan scene. If anyone has a demo of clans using Onos, I'd like to see it.
1600 damage per second? So, an onos stomps, then another charges, and the HA train vanishes?
Yes.
I certainly think that a charging onos should scatter LA Marines like empty soda cans, though. Gore does, so why not charge? Imagine all the good times you'll have charging through powersilo and knocking six marines into the trigger_hurt!
Charge = the sux0rz! What's the point. Gore can do more. Charge makes u go faster... ok...useful for getting away but useless for offense. Ugh.
Searching is your friend
Well, if you want it to be better than gore against structures, it'd have to do more than that. Gore does 360 damage per second against structures.
Skulks desperately need a boost midgame - this can be fixed by making leap back to the way it was in 2.0/1.04. Same with charge on onos to fix endgame.
My opinion anyway.