too linear. needs more rooms instead of endless hallways. also try drawing the ship from top first to get a general shape for it and then design the layout hives are too close to eachother
Ok firstly, you want a warship kind of feel but from what i see there is huge gaps of nothingness sparsely littered with corridors. If i was going for that theme i would try to make everything more compact and centralised, with less corridors (or at least far shorters corridors) and more densely packed rooms and areas of importance. It would give your warship a far more immersive feel and integrated feel. I hope you aren't going to make those straight long corridors at unusual angles are you? I don't think they would have a very nice aesthetic result. Another thing is there doesn't seem to be any orientation. As in where the front of the ship is and where the back is. Try to incorperate a little symmetry possibly. I remember they did this well in Halo, the capital ship 'The Pillar Of Autumn' which had symmetry in its layout but not in its aethetics, so as to avoid looking odd. A functional war ship probably wouldn't have identical rooms on each side would it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. Rethink your layout (and try to create a more coherent representation <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) . You said you know what it looks like in your head, so try to get it down in some form, and let us take a look <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
I don't mean you make one side of the map and then copy it over, and flip it. I just mean try to create even the idea of a little symmetry, of order. Did you read the other things i said?
Look at the overviews of the official maps. Count the number of different locations from each map and you get a rough estimate of what your own map should have, pay attention to connectivity, ie "where can I get from this place?", don't just put down rooms connected with hallways, give them shapes and use those shapes to connect the rooms with each other.
And finally, scrap the layout shown in this thread. It quite frankly has zero potential and reworking it into something useful isn't IMO an option. Start over, design with self restrain focusing on what you do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->since there are more problems than good things about this layout. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> bah, nonsense. how are you going to learn if you don't try things out and ask. here are the positive things i found about your layout: -v nice colour scheme! seriously. it looks like something from an old DOS game. -the fact that you have already delineated the map into tsa-friendly, neutral and kharaa means you have an idea how how the chambers in that area will shape up. If you pull it off, it should be an obvious gameplay transition which shifts as the marines approach the hives. -i like the layout 'in concept', ie the way the rooms are connected. if you reduce some official maps to concept, say eclipse. you come up with a rough pyramid. MS ->two ways out->each branch off towards a central hub and a hive path->centre hub and hives both connect via similar forks that come out from either path out of the MS. i think if you took the rooms the way you had them and them treated your current corridors as if they were 'bendy', you could make a very promising layout from what you have here -i also really like the amount of vents you have and the fact that they all relay through the central ventilation hub, this area could be pretty intense, provided it wasn't prone to being locked down by tsa turret farms... -the water connections between hives is a neat idea. you may want to do it in sections of length that are difficult for marines but not for aliens, to optimize gameplay effects while keeping you water entity sizes down. -the number of welds is a neat idea as well, although be aware that complex welds take quite a few ents as well. as best illustrated by merkaba's incredibly cool security doors
Well I was planning on making Central Vent have water on the floor to keep the marines from locking it down. The waterways were meant to be marine-only; the weldable in pumping was to remove the water from the coolant pipes. I broke down the weldables into weldable for something that activates and closes a door or somesuch, and unweldable for something that is removed.
This is much more symmetrical, yet the various locations will look different and have different purposes. Keep in mind that the vents do not ever connect to eachother, but instead all go back to central vent. Pumping is designed to be a marine path to the hives, the weldable there will reveal a button which allows the corridors to be drained.
edit: pumping, not piping... edit2: new revison on second page
1: Much improved layout but it still doesn't 'feel' quite right. I would suggest some variety in the corridors on the port and starbord sides. A coridor going straight through like that probally wouldn't work out really good gameplay wise.
2:Perfect symetry doesn't 'feel' quite right either. Mabye try changing the shape of rooms so that they aren't mirror imaged of the room on the opposite side.
3: If I'm counting right I see 17 nodes, that is probally too many. I think the mapping guidlines suggest 9 - 12. Also, don't have all your nodes in a straight line accross the middle.
Well, the rooms might be the same basic shape, but they won't look the same from the inside. Some will have considerable infestation, others don't even have the same purpose. Which particular corridors are you referring to?
It just doesn't seam quite right to me based on the layout but I'll hold my judgement until I see some screens. The details will end up setting them apart anyways. Symetry is Ok, but I prefer to have variety. I guess I'll just wait for some screens. Again, much improved from the first layout.
Silly as it may sound, it may give it a nice feel. I would also suggest perhaps a few more weldables, you have many unweldables, but I don't see any weldables, maybe I'm just too damned tired+blind
Much better, but still not there. - Still too much blocky rooms connected with hallways. More variety. - Deadends. I don't know if there is something about deadends in the mapping guidelines but I think there definitely should be. You have 5 deadends in your map (Engine 1, Engine 2, Marine barracks, Pilot Barracks, Armory). Get rid of them or incorporate them in your map. Personally, I would remove the Engine 1 & 2 completely. - Too many nodes. Doublenode should have an Onos & marine friendly access from south. - If you go for mirrored layout, mirror the location of hives as well. - Rethink the Coil A-Coil B-Railgun connectivity.
If you make a new version and it shows as much progress as this one, it should be something workable. I don't recommend you to start mapping with this version of the layout. In my personal opinion, it still doesn't work and requires at least one revision before it is a solid base to build on. Do the layout with patience, well crafted map with bad layout is just wasted potential.
Here's my next revision, I decided to put some notes on this one. The orange is elevated area that can't be reached by walking. The reason everything is blocky is because I'm using blocks to save me some work. Xzilen: I tried to incorporate a captain's quarters into the map, i'm still a bit leary of it though. -Driftwood-: I removed engine one and engine two and added a second path out of each barracks. The armory now has a path to the captain's quarters. There are only twelve nodes now and the coils will look more like one large room. -The marine spawn now has three new ways in, one blockable, one partially blockable, and one through a series of three doors. -Overall reduced corridor length.
Thoughts on this one?
edit: these forums need a spellchecker edit2: replaced with a more refined version edit3: leaving this one up, but the latest one is further down edit4: taking this one down
Looking better but I still feel the need to have variety on the different sides of the ship. I don't know, mabey it's just me. For instance, I think it would be confusing telling your team to go to the rail gun hive and have them wonder if it was the port or starbord one. I think each hive should be unique. Mabye keep one of the rail gun hives then move the other one down ore something and have it become one of the engine hives.
not THAT symmetrical <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> why don't you replace the long string of rooms on the left hand side with say, a missile bay. Add a little variance in the central area.
Final revision before I get myself some sleep tonight. Port and starboard corridors are now essentially large rooms. Mess and AP access are no more. There will be plenty of cover in those corridors, so don't worry.
Ok, now it looks pretty good. Still requires some balancing and tuning, but I think it's close now. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My main concern are the hive locations. With a highly symmetrical layout but not symmetrically placed hives, you are bound to make them inequal starting places in some way. In this case, the Water Processing hive is too close to marines and even with the elevators slowing them down, it's very accessible and easily sieged. I've attached a suggestion for you to consider if you feel reluctant to place the left and right hive symmetrically. It has all the vents and water filleds edited out for clarity.
Res balance. Hives are inequal in terms of res. Railgun hive has considerably less nozzles in its vicinity with the closest one being in Mess Hall and the next ones in Turret Control and Reactor Hive. Marines may have a node too much close by but I'm not sure about it.
Other than these gripes it looks IMO opinion good. (I would get rid of Armory deadend as well, but it's not a big deal really.) Thumbs up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Edit: removed the first layout since it was hurting my eyes, look at the bottom of the page for the newer one.
also try drawing the ship from top first to get a general shape for it and then design the layout
hives are too close to eachother
Did you read the other things i said?
And finally, scrap the layout shown in this thread. It quite frankly has zero potential and reworking it into something useful isn't IMO an option. Start over, design with self restrain focusing on what you do.
bah, nonsense. how are you going to learn if you don't try things out and ask.
here are the positive things i found about your layout:
-v nice colour scheme! seriously. it looks like something from an old DOS game.
-the fact that you have already delineated the map into tsa-friendly, neutral and kharaa means you have an idea how how the chambers in that area will shape up. If you pull it off, it should be an obvious gameplay transition which shifts as the marines approach the hives.
-i like the layout 'in concept', ie the way the rooms are connected. if you reduce some official maps to concept, say eclipse. you come up with a rough pyramid. MS ->two ways out->each branch off towards a central hub and a hive path->centre hub and hives both connect via similar forks that come out from either path out of the MS. i think if you took the rooms the way you had them and them treated your current corridors as if they were 'bendy', you could make a very promising layout from what you have here
-i also really like the amount of vents you have and the fact that they all relay through the central ventilation hub, this area could be pretty intense, provided it wasn't prone to being locked down by tsa turret farms...
-the water connections between hives is a neat idea. you may want to do it in sections of length that are difficult for marines but not for aliens, to optimize gameplay effects while keeping you water entity sizes down.
-the number of welds is a neat idea as well, although be aware that complex welds take quite a few ents as well. as best illustrated by merkaba's incredibly cool security doors
edit: pumping, not piping...
edit2: new revison on second page
2:Perfect symetry doesn't 'feel' quite right either. Mabye try changing the shape of rooms so that they aren't mirror imaged of the room on the opposite side.
3: If I'm counting right I see 17 nodes, that is probally too many. I think the mapping guidlines suggest 9 - 12. Also, don't have all your nodes in a straight line accross the middle.
agreed
Lots of rooms like a captail ship would have.
May I make one suggestion, a Captains quarters?
Silly as it may sound, it may give it a nice feel. I would also suggest perhaps a few more weldables, you have many unweldables, but I don't see any weldables, maybe I'm just too damned tired+blind
- Still too much blocky rooms connected with hallways. More variety.
- Deadends. I don't know if there is something about deadends in the mapping guidelines but I think there definitely should be. You have 5 deadends in your map (Engine 1, Engine 2, Marine barracks, Pilot Barracks, Armory). Get rid of them or incorporate them in your map. Personally, I would remove the Engine 1 & 2 completely.
- Too many nodes. Doublenode should have an Onos & marine friendly access from south.
- If you go for mirrored layout, mirror the location of hives as well.
- Rethink the Coil A-Coil B-Railgun connectivity.
If you make a new version and it shows as much progress as this one, it should be something workable. I don't recommend you to start mapping with this version of the layout. In my personal opinion, it still doesn't work and requires at least one revision before it is a solid base to build on. Do the layout with patience, well crafted map with bad layout is just wasted potential.
Xzilen: I tried to incorporate a captain's quarters into the map, i'm still a bit leary of it though.
-Driftwood-: I removed engine one and engine two and added a second path out of each barracks. The armory now has a path to the captain's quarters. There are only twelve nodes now and the coils will look more like one large room.
-The marine spawn now has three new ways in, one blockable, one partially blockable, and one through a series of three doors.
-Overall reduced corridor length.
Thoughts on this one?
edit: these forums need a spellchecker
edit2: replaced with a more refined version
edit3: leaving this one up, but the latest one is further down
edit4: taking this one down
Edit: Mabye I need a nap.
edit: forgot to change the notes
edit:hopefully this is the last time i need to re-attach...
edit: removed attachment
What are everyone's thoughts on this one?
edit: newest on next page
My main concern are the hive locations. With a highly symmetrical layout but not symmetrically placed hives, you are bound to make them inequal starting places in some way. In this case, the Water Processing hive is too close to marines and even with the elevators slowing them down, it's very accessible and easily sieged. I've attached a suggestion for you to consider if you feel reluctant to place the left and right hive symmetrically. It has all the vents and water filleds edited out for clarity.
Res balance. Hives are inequal in terms of res. Railgun hive has considerably less nozzles in its vicinity with the closest one being in Mess Hall and the next ones in Turret Control and Reactor Hive. Marines may have a node too much close by but I'm not sure about it.
Other than these gripes it looks IMO opinion good. (I would get rid of Armory deadend as well, but it's not a big deal really.) Thumbs up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->