Alien Starting Res

DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">25 for everyone? fair or no?</div> I'm not entirely sure how alien starting res works these days. Is it basically that anyone who joins the alien team fast enough gets 25 res? Isn't that a little unbalanced? 3 aliens w/ 25 res adds up to 75, 3/4 of the marines' starting res. 8 aliens get 200, 2x marine starting res. Is this a problem? Is this even how it works? if so, should we consider giving only the first 4 aliens 25 res? or splitting it evenly? maybe whenever someone joins, give them a % of everyone else's res, and when someone leaves, split their res among everyone? that would make some people mad I bet, but for me, the benefits would outweigh...

just a discussion question. maybe I'll pop it into suggestions and ideas if it gets any feedback.
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Comments

  • TiaxTiax Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
    more unfair is the res gain aliens gain when their team only has 2-3 people. Flayra, apparently, would rather fix minor bugs first. Afterall, we don't want people to drop a turret factory, drop 15 turrets, then recycle the turret factory and rebuild it so that all 15 turrets are running. Glad they fixed that one *whew*
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  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--Tiax-+Sep 15 2003, 02:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tiax- @ Sep 15 2003, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> more unfair is the res gain aliens gain when their team only has 2-3 people. Flayra, apparently, would rather fix minor bugs first. Afterall, we don't want people to drop a turret factory, drop 15 turrets, then recycle the turret factory and rebuild it so that all 15 turrets are running. Glad they fixed that one *whew* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ...the hell? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->



    Anyways... I don't think that aliens start with 25 res is unfair at all. Their res is individual, whereas marine's have a shared pool.

    On large games, aliens have a small advantage in the fact that they have more res to spend cumitilivly than marines, however, alien's get res <b>extreamly</b> slow in large games compared to marines.

    On a ten alien team, it takes nearly <b>one minute</b> to get just one res from a single res tower. During this same time, marines will have gotten 10 res from one node.

    If anything, the marine's have the advantage. I hope this clears up things.
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  • AxehiltAxehilt Join Date: 2003-09-12 Member: 20796Members
    If marines and aliens bought the same things, this would be an issue. Fortunately this isn't the case. Aliens are really inefficient with their resources because they have to pay 10 to evolve gorge before they can make a structure (and without structures they're screwed).

    So as a skulk, a Resource Tower actually costs me 25 resources (27 if I turn back into skulk). An upgrade chamber or offensive chamber costs 20. Choosing to stay as a Gorge removes this overhead, but at the cost of (a) 1 less offensive alien and (b) long downtime waiting for res to come in.

    There are enough differences in how marines and aliens spend resources that comparing starting resources really isn't useful.
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  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8 aliens get 200, 2x marine starting res. Is this a problem? Is this even how it works? if so, should we consider giving only the first 4 aliens 25 res? or splitting it evenly? maybe whenever someone joins, give them a % of everyone else's res, and when someone leaves, split their res among everyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Only after the first couple of mins do new joining players get the normal starting res. If you join a game in progress mid way through, you start at zero and you will get res at the same rate as everyone.
    This has been talked about to death and its normally brought up due to lack of understanding of the major differences of the res ssytem for each team.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->more unfair is the res gain aliens gain when their team only has 2-3 people. Flayra, apparently, would rather fix minor bugs first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    NS isn't ment to be played with less than 5 v 5 (6 v 6 is the correct number). The res is split for each person when you have smaller teams each res will equal 1 for each person alot faster.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On a ten alien team, it takes nearly one minute to get just one res from a single res tower. During this same time, marines will have gotten 10 res from one node.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As always the voice of experience speaks up and does the work for me. My Mate Forlorn (who seems to have left commchiar <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ) has answered the question with an example that proves the system works.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So as a skulk, a Resource Tower actually costs me 25 resources (27 if I turn back into skulk). An upgrade chamber or offensive chamber costs 20. Choosing to stay as a Gorge removes this overhead, but at the cost of (a) 1 less offensive alien and (b) long downtime waiting for res to come in.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Axe has also provided some experience to how things work. This is why you hear alot of people complain (including me) about res income for the gorge who doesn't get RFKs as offten (if ever).
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  • JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
    At first I thought this was B.S. too, but in the end I believe it's balanced. If Marines got 200 res at start there'd be NO stopping them. That extra 100 res is enough to build and electrify two RTs while still having 10 res to spare.

    And also the aliens' res is split up. While Marines can easily initially build a building that costs 40 res the aliens would have to wait 5-10+ minutes to build a 40 res building(::cough:: HIVE ::cough:<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. For example- would it be better for one alien to get 100 res and three get zero? Yes. Because then you have an Onos right away and (so long as it has regen) it will easily tear the Marines apart. The best they can do is play a reactionary game and turret up or dish out shotguns. Bottom line is 100 res in one pool lets you build bigger things than 25 res in 4 pools.

    So yeah, those are my thoughts.

    -JohnnySmash
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  • Trojan2Trojan2 Join Date: 2003-01-14 Member: 12290Members
    The res system cant be directly compared like that anymore. Once the link between players was broken (no res overflow, no gorge special res) and individual res was established for aliens it became an issue of how fast a alien player gets a USEFULL amount of res as apposed to "total team res". Right now I feel its pretty well balenced. Why? becuase marines and aliens get usfull quanties of res at about the same time.
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  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    Sometimes (unless my team is about to loose), if I get 100 res as skulk, I stay skulk. Although this is partially due to the fact that I'm not very good with onos and am better at skulk, it also gives res to others on my team alot faster (more like the marines). Plus, each time I make a kill, that res goes to others who need it.
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  • Drewbar99Drewbar99 Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16505Members
    tis true, but having 25 res to a single alien is a bit far fetched, cause by the time Marines have a chance to build IP & Armoury, the Aliens have capped all res towers in a space of 30 seconds. That is a bit of a problem... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • TeflonTeflon Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20289Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 15 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 15 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tiax-+Sep 15 2003, 02:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tiax- @ Sep 15 2003, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> more unfair is the res gain aliens gain when their team only has 2-3 people.  Flayra, apparently, would rather fix minor bugs first.  Afterall, we don't want people to drop a turret factory, drop 15 turrets, then recycle the turret factory and rebuild it so that all 15 turrets are running.  Glad they fixed that one *whew* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ...the hell? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->



    Anyways... I don't think that aliens start with 25 res is unfair at all. Their res is individual, whereas marine's have a shared pool.

    On large games, aliens have a small advantage in the fact that they have more res to spend cumitilivly than marines, however, alien's get res <b>extreamly</b> slow in large games compared to marines.

    On a ten alien team, it takes nearly <b>one minute</b> to get just one res from a single res tower. During this same time, marines will have gotten 10 res from one node.

    If anything, the marine's have the advantage. I hope this clears up things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The turrets building themselves was a bug I found and submitted <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I spammed a huge turret farm on Tanith, recycled the TF, and built a new one and had my marines put it up and *WOOCH* all the turrets turned on <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • KRaggKRagg Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8832Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Racer^+Sep 15 2003, 04:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Racer^ @ Sep 15 2003, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sometimes (unless my team is about to loose), if I get 100 res as skulk, I stay skulk. Although this is partially due to the fact that I'm not very good with onos and am better at skulk, it also gives res to others on my team alot faster (more like the marines). Plus, each time I make a kill, that res goes to others who need it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Res overflow was taken out because of RFK. I'm not sure if it also applies to res from res towers, but I got the impression it was no overflow at all.
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  • The_BendsThe_Bends Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17183Members
    No thers no overflow. If you stay on 100 res you're wasting res
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  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--Drewbar99+Sep 15 2003, 07:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drewbar99 @ Sep 15 2003, 07:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> tis true, but having 25 res to a single alien is a bit far fetched, cause by the time Marines have a chance to build IP & Armoury, the Aliens have capped all res towers in a space of 30 seconds. That is a bit of a problem... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Uh huh, whatever you say dude.

    On large servers, marines have more than enough firepower to pummel through whatever nodes the aliens take at first. Meanwhile, they can continually build their own nodes.

    Also, don't forget that any marine can build, while you must be a specific alien class to build that is weak and costs 1/10 of your total res...
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