When To F4
DiscoZombie
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
<div class="IPBDescription">hopefully a definitive list</div> Has anyone ever played a game of chess? What happens if both players are rather good, are both mature, and they both see that one of them has a checkmate in 5 moves? They shake hands and say GG. The winner doesn't say OMG j00 L4MURE I WANT TO PLAY IT OUT SO I CAN KNOCK YOUR KING OVAR!!!@!@! But, if the game is NOT over, and there's still ways to survive and possibly win, it must be further played.
NS is no different. On one hand, It's not deathmatch; it's not CS. It's a strategy-oriented FPS where rounds last an average of like 35 minutes. If one team is definitely going to win, and they're not getting it over with -- the marines aren't pushing on that last hive, the aliens aren't killing off the IPs, -- where's the fun? What is the point of wasting another 20 minutes playing out a game that's already decided? If the most fun you have in the game is killing defenseless players, download some bots.
On the other hand, F4ing when the game is evenly matched and is far from over just annoys everyone. If you just lost an advantage (lost a hive, lost a hive lockdown, lost your onos, etc), it is NOT an excuse to F4. Without question, the most fun NS games I've played have been semi-long ones where the advantage shifts back and forth between the teams. A recent game: The kharaa had 2 hives, the marines had the 3rd locked down, the marines killed one of the living hives, the aliens broke down the defenses of the locked down hive and put it up and moved on to win... if the aliens had F4'd because they were down to 1 hive, it would have been uber-lame, and they would not have won.
Let's start a list.
When it's <span style='color:red'>not OK</span> to F4:
<ul>
<li>When the game is evenly matched
<li>When the game is far from over
<li>When the endgame is near and the other team is actually organized and making a concentrated effort to finish the game
<li>When you get mad because you died as an onos/fade/whatever, or your com won't drop you a weapon, etc
</ul>
When it <span style='color:red'>is OK</span> to F4:
<ul>
<li>When the commander isn't doing anything, or is completely throwing the game, and no one's voting to eject
<li>When the whole team is saving for onos and no one's getting RTs but you (very frustrating, because you're helping them and they're not helping you)
<li>When the end is near and the other team simply isn't finishing you off (not killing IPs or the last hive, etc.)
<li>When the teams are like 7 to 3, you ask a few times, and no one is switching
<li>When you have to go afk for more than a minute or 2. It's better than taking up space/being continuously telefragged. (mentioned by Hida Tsuzua)
</ul>
I'll add more (on both sides) if I think of more or if people say more. Yeah, all of this has been said before, and I expect a lot of people to disagree with a lot, but I'm posting my opinions anyway, and they're all open to honest discussion.
NS is no different. On one hand, It's not deathmatch; it's not CS. It's a strategy-oriented FPS where rounds last an average of like 35 minutes. If one team is definitely going to win, and they're not getting it over with -- the marines aren't pushing on that last hive, the aliens aren't killing off the IPs, -- where's the fun? What is the point of wasting another 20 minutes playing out a game that's already decided? If the most fun you have in the game is killing defenseless players, download some bots.
On the other hand, F4ing when the game is evenly matched and is far from over just annoys everyone. If you just lost an advantage (lost a hive, lost a hive lockdown, lost your onos, etc), it is NOT an excuse to F4. Without question, the most fun NS games I've played have been semi-long ones where the advantage shifts back and forth between the teams. A recent game: The kharaa had 2 hives, the marines had the 3rd locked down, the marines killed one of the living hives, the aliens broke down the defenses of the locked down hive and put it up and moved on to win... if the aliens had F4'd because they were down to 1 hive, it would have been uber-lame, and they would not have won.
Let's start a list.
When it's <span style='color:red'>not OK</span> to F4:
<ul>
<li>When the game is evenly matched
<li>When the game is far from over
<li>When the endgame is near and the other team is actually organized and making a concentrated effort to finish the game
<li>When you get mad because you died as an onos/fade/whatever, or your com won't drop you a weapon, etc
</ul>
When it <span style='color:red'>is OK</span> to F4:
<ul>
<li>When the commander isn't doing anything, or is completely throwing the game, and no one's voting to eject
<li>When the whole team is saving for onos and no one's getting RTs but you (very frustrating, because you're helping them and they're not helping you)
<li>When the end is near and the other team simply isn't finishing you off (not killing IPs or the last hive, etc.)
<li>When the teams are like 7 to 3, you ask a few times, and no one is switching
<li>When you have to go afk for more than a minute or 2. It's better than taking up space/being continuously telefragged. (mentioned by Hida Tsuzua)
</ul>
I'll add more (on both sides) if I think of more or if people say more. Yeah, all of this has been said before, and I expect a lot of people to disagree with a lot, but I'm posting my opinions anyway, and they're all open to honest discussion.
Comments
When to F4 - NEVER
When to F4 - NEVER <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->, i kind of agree with this, 25 minutes wasted on destroying the last remaining base, the so called last stand....why not just give in
Terribly dull for the losing side yes. But, this is a game, and why take away the glory and fun away from the victorious? (there are certain extreme situations however that I MIGHT agree to f4 too)
EDIT: added quote
Dull for the winning side too... I mean, everyone knows the 2.00 stalemates. They're more-or-less gone, but there's still some long, pointless endgames. if you're w/ the marines and you're trapped in marine start, and the aliens aren't cooperating to finish the base, then, well, I don't know about you, but I have better things to do with my time than to wait it out. I'd rather play CS than sit out a long NS endgame.
woah, brilliant =P and yeah, I guess I shouldn't have expected this thread to rise above the "OMG TEH EFF FOUR IS TEH LAME" "NO TEH F4 R0X0R2" threads... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
simple statement: the F4 key is there for a reason...
I dunno. Winning is winning in my book. I'm just as satisfied beating the opponent when they F4 or when they put up a mild end game fight. The only time I'm not satisfied is when they have literally no chance to win and continue wasting time.
The original poster said it best:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What happens if both players are rather good, are both mature, and they both see that one of them has a checkmate in 5 moves? They shake hands and say GG. The winner doesn't say OMG j00 L4MURE I WANT TO PLAY IT OUT SO I CAN KNOCK YOUR KING OVAR!!!@!@! But, if the game is NOT over, and there's still ways to survive and possibly win, it must be further played.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly how I feel about any game I play. If the game is over, it's over - stop wasting time. If things are grim, but the game isn't over yet, you can bet I'll still be in the thick of it making tons of kills. But if the game is truly finished, I encourage my team to F4.
I play the game for my fun, not anyone elses. I could care less about the other people. If the games over im going to F4 or im going to quit. If I f4 it means ill be around for the next game, if I quit I won't. Which would you rather have? (keeping in mind im a good competitor).
At any rate I still think its funny, I was on this one server spectating because it was 2 on 2. If I had joined marines id have lost, if I joined alien I would have won. Ether way it would of been a really crappy game. Anyway the admin says "join, no spectating". I explained I can ether spectate or I can leave. He said leave so I did.
Few minutes later the server was empty.
My main reason I like it when people F4 is because it ends a game quicker. If its over its over, a wins a win. Id rather get the game over and start another rather then making a long drawn out game thats going to cause half the server to empty for the next round.