A Request To Server Operators
RyoOhki
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Please increase max players</div> One of the vets (either eggmac or crit.cal) made a comment a few days ago that jumped out at me. they said that 2.0 was mainly tested on servers with around 24 players, and that in fact 2.0 was pretty balanced with 24+ people. I tried this out and to my astonishment they were pretty much spot on. The larger numbers mean the marines can achieve their objectives with sheer weight of flesh, and the aliens get res slower as it's divided up. That's a very simplistic outline of the reasons but one thing is certain: in bigger servers marines stand a much better chance of winning in 2.0.
So in the time that it takes for 2.01 to be beta tested I just wanted to send an open request out to the server operators out there. Increase your server sizes. This will result in a more balanced 2.0 that gives both sides a good chance of winning. It's a simple and temporary solution but I really think it would work.
So in the time that it takes for 2.01 to be beta tested I just wanted to send an open request out to the server operators out there. Increase your server sizes. This will result in a more balanced 2.0 that gives both sides a good chance of winning. It's a simple and temporary solution but I really think it would work.
Comments
nuff said. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (i agree! more max players)
It's not true for every server, but I'm sure most are running on the border. I remember my old clan server, if it went above 16 players it'd immediately spike all the pings. You'd go from 50ms to around 230ms.
I enjoy big games, though. So it'd be nice to see those that are running at lower numbers "just because", to be increased. But many servers simply can't.
Though 16v16 is BETTER <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But 10 vs 10 is cool.
more players the server allows, the better it has to be equipment wise.
Server operators like to have big servers that gets a lot of visitors. After all, that's what it is there for. But the cost factor is reason #1 why they can't get it better. Unless you want to play on server, when it gets a decent group in there spike to 500-2000 pings. Really fun trying to play a game that moves with 1 frame every 10 seconds.
Well, coming from my Linux host, what server improvements? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And in return the server operators may make an open request to you, that you provide them with the funds needed to pay for bandwidth costs as well as upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hit the nail on the head.
For one, I believe testing is done on larger servers because you can fit more people in them. In normal pub play, I am totally happy with 7v7 or 8v8. 9v9 is as high as I will go.
I've been wanting to post about this for so long but just don't have the facts to back me up about it, so I guess now is the time to try anyway.
Yes, it certainly seems that the less aliens you have the more income per tick compared with a larger team assuming equal amount of res nodes. Personally I believe that this alone may be the biggest remaining unbalance in the game.
Many people have claimed that "Fades/Onos appear too early" or that "Aliens can build the hive too early" well this is all due (in my opinion...) to the fact that aliens can drop res towers from game start and also that if teams are small they get much more resources than if teams are large.
So, I have no clue what the actual resource formula is, but I am assuming it is something simply like:
Alien Income = Income Per Tick / Amount Of Alien Players
So assume that on a team of 8, the alien team has an income of 16 res per tick. Each player recieves 2 res per tick. However a team of 16 players recieve only 1 with the same (team) income per tick. Compare this with even lower players than 8 and the income is significantly higher. Also, consider that in public servers you often begin games with small numbers until the server fills up, or you have readyroom idlers for a few minutes while they chat about all sorts of things. This causes aliens to get a good boost of income in the starting minutes which is often when it's most needed.
So how can the income problem be solved? Well of course as this thread suggested you can increase server sizes, though just because a server is capable of 24+ players does not mean it will always be full. I believe a better solution is an alteration to the resource distribution formula.
What we need is a formula that would give each player on a team the same income per tick whether they have 4, 8 or 16 players (with the same amount of nodes in each scenario). My math is rusty so I can't think of how to do it offhand, but I am sure it is quite simple and someone here is capable of writing one.
It would also be nice if the server stats which are sometimes used to show win/lose ratios can also provide win/lose ratios in player number categories, obviously this would be difficult as the numbers change regularly throughout the game. But maybe the stats could display the average players or something with each result, it would then be easier to filter the stats into groups.
I would certainly be interested to see the win/lose ratio for a set of 8v8 games and then compare them with 16v16 games.
Alien Income = Income Per Tick / Amount Of Alien Players
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Actually it's more simple than that (AFIAK), it is simply a queue. Every time a res tower generates resources, the next alien in the queue gets 1 res. So with more people, the queue is longer, and individuals get resources less often.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What we need is a formula that would each player on a team the same income per tick whether they have 4, 8 or 16 players (with the same amount of nodes in each scenario). My math is rusty so I can't think of how to do it offhand, but I am sure someone here is capable of writing one. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that we need something like this, but what if the number of players changed during the game? Would the formula instantly change? That could be buggy.
And also, if the change in formula occured at 4, 8 and 16 players, one team would be throroughly p***ed off if they were at 5, 8, or 15 players.
Definatly worth considering though.
The 4, 8 or 16 numbers were just examples I made up, of course it would actually be whatever the amount of players are. I guess I should have said:
What we need is a formula that would each player on a team the same income per tick whether they have 1-16 players (with the same amount of nodes in each scenario).
So in the time that it takes for 2.01 to be beta tested I just wanted to send an open request out to the server operators out there. Increase your server sizes. This will result in a more balanced 2.0 that gives both sides a good chance of winning. It's a simple and temporary solution but I really think it would work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say that the only reason servers DONT run 24+ is that the servers cant handle it...noticed how things get laggy with 30 players and 200 buildings?
Now I don't really agree with massive servers. This is due to the marine game. The comm needs to be able to keep track of his marines, and it seems unlikely he can with 12 players on his team. Maybe some comms can, who knows. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that 12 players is a little low, and a limit of 14-16 is better. This also helps build up a cache of extra players, so when players leave, a 6 vs 6 game can easily be maintained.
I've joined many servers just to wait a minute or so and then realize that it bumped me off without a word. Mostly due to lack of hard drive spinning and console lag.
Good point
Anyway , i was going to get a 20man server but i like smallers games, 8-8 easyer to control your team.
- the more slots you want, the more it costs.
So unless you are sponsored in some way a clanserver rarely will be over 20 slots.
- once more than 14 players are playing and several buildings are built, the ping jumps up over 200-300.
High pings are one of the main reasons players leave servers (lack of at least medium skilled players -> lack of good and tactical play being another reason), and noone wants to pay for a server that's ampty all the time.
(I do not know why there is the "magical 14 player barrier", but it seems quite a lot of other server admins experience the same "phenomenon")
- 8 vs 8 can be a good and close to balanced game.
While aliens are still dominating, we see some very good Marine rounds.. wich is fun.
Also keep in mind that clan-matches usually are played 6vs6.
Playing with 12vs12 or even more is, like somebody already pointed out, a "win by pure masses"scenario... wich is not that much fun, imho.
- hardware is another very important problem when running a server... not to speak of the bandwidth.
If a hoster decides to upgrade their machines in order to make a MOD run smoothly on their servers, the money they spend on the hardware will make it's way into the prices... wich leads us to the first point again.
-my2cent-
Hyper
did you figure that one out all by yourself <b>sk84zer0</b>?
8x20=$160 per month for a 20 player server.
Thats $1920 per year.
My ISP sucks, so I usually have 200+, and I get kicked because of it...
Theres your problem