If people would behave themselves with civility the only things moderators would need to do is delete accidental posts. The problem is not the moderators, but the fact that we actually need them at all.
It's stupid to try and change someone else (in this case, the mods). Instead, try removing your own contribution to the problem.
Its just the way some ppl are, every one is different. U cant just say too some one stop doing somin and there gonner stop. chances are u would **** them off or **** them off more and they then keep saying more stuff. Its somthing that cant be solved. Really if u did solve it like creating and cloning the near perfect man but the forum would be totaly dull and boring as everyone would have same views and agree on everything. Really i dont mind if some one is agressive in their reply.
In a different forum where ppl were going on about the HL2 benchmarks some one went all out agressive cos he was **** off cos he didnt like ppl just dismissing certain gfx card cos the other did better in the benchmark. he still got his point across and it made sense, he just put it in an agressive manner, he actualy made more sense than the ppl who were against him.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Sep 13 2003, 02:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Sep 13 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thats really great, i just seen a topic in general discussion about some one wanting help with steam. I think i knew a fix cos i had the problem with the beta software which i got fixed. guess what, some sad mod thought it be great to close the topic for him so he doesnt get the help. the reason it was closed because there was already a steam related topic in the off-topic forum. really, thats just freaking sad if a mod is gonner do that to some one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and yet, the post being locked still does not prevent you from helping this individual.
Use the PM feature on the board. It's not there to look pretty.
The simple fact is - the board was being drowned in Steam releated posts - theres no need for it in the <b>General</b> forum for <b>Natural-Selection</b>.
Sure - if it were a steam board, this would be the perfect forum for it. But its not. It's for general discussion about Natural-Selection. Not Steam.
<!--QuoteBegin--XeroSlayer+Sep 13 2003, 07:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XeroSlayer @ Sep 13 2003, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You KNOW this ones going to be locked as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And if it is, it'll only prove that ViolenceJack and I were right.
No, if anything, it will prove the Mods are right.
This thread is already on boardline flame war.
Even if the mods did decide to lock it - your point?
Like its been stated countless times before, this isn't a democracy. You have no <b>rights</b> here. Posting here is not a right, its a privilage and that privilage can be taken away at any time.
The Mods don't simply lock posts because they're bored. Thats why Im not a Mod. I've been here forever, but the people in charge know me (rofl, fku guys <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). They don't entrust Mod status to individuals, such as myself, who would like nothing more to lock the majority of the posts I see and quite frankly, ban a whole mess of you people.
<!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Sep 13 2003, 08:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silver Fox @ Sep 13 2003, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The simple fact is - the board was being drowned in Steam releated posts - theres no need for it in the <b>General</b> forum for <b>Natural-Selection</b>.
Sure - if it were a steam board, this would be the perfect forum for it. But its not. It's for general discussion about Natural-Selection. Not Steam. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He could have simply moved the threads asking for help too the off-topic forum. although he just closed everything steam related and had no thought to what he was doing. he probably just closed everything with the word steam in the title or somin and just locked it and posted that there is a steam thread in off-topic. he obviously couldnt be arsed to just check for 1 sec what the thread was really about.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
These are the NS boards. If you want to talk about Steam, go to the Steam boards. Even if Steam is a legitimate subject of discussion in the Off-Topic forum (which it is), it's the Off-Topic forum, not the Steam Tech Support forum.
If you have a question about Steam, post it in the Steam thread. Don't start a new topic.
you missed the point. Its irrelivent what the topics where about.
This is a general discussion for Natural-Selection. Not Steam.
Theres already a post in the off topic forums (which, Steam is - off topic). Why drown the OTF with senseless Steam related posts if theres already one there.
Steam posts were poping up like .. one every minute or so ... could you be arsed to filter through every single one on a forum that had absolutly nothing to do with the topic?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steam posts were poping up like .. one every minute or so ... could you be arsed to filter through every single one on a forum that had absolutly nothing to do with the topic? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Sep 13 2003, 01:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Sep 13 2003, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steam posts were poping up like .. one every minute or so ... could you be arsed to filter through every single one on a forum that had absolutly nothing to do with the topic? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, that was me who moved those out of the way.
In fact, I had read each of those now-locked topics in entirety. Those with direct informational content which was not repeated, or an answer to a thread on the same page (ie: anyone gotten Steam working? and I got Steam to Work!!) were moved to Off-Topic. As I recall, there were only three of them.
At that point though, through the miracle of tabbed browsing, it became simple to lock the others in a very short space of time, without the chance of a mis-lock.
And why were they locked, instead of moved? Because they would have been locked in Off-Topic once they arrived, as most of them were duplicates. Plus, it left a very visible warning to people who visited the forum at that time, only to be confronted with a full page of Steam topics locked in G-D. ie: <b>Steam topics do not belong in General Discussion.</b> It appears that most have caught this subtle clue.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Sep 13 2003, 06:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Sep 13 2003, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steam posts were poping up like .. one every minute or so ... could you be arsed to filter through every single one on a forum that had absolutly nothing to do with the topic? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> then ... I guess saying "the way it should have been done" is really a pointless comment - seeing as, in your own sentence even, you agreed that the mod handled the situation correctly ...?
Breaking your sentence up;
"the way it should be done." - refering to <b>your</b> ideas on how a moderator should act.
"i have seen some that have been moved" - well .... why add that last bit - if its how you think the mod should have handled it ...
Basically, I guess Im just trying to say that sentence, made absolutly no sense to me ...
Well I understand mods are only human. Sometimes they get mad at people or insulted by posts, and they have the power and the motivation is there, so they lock the thread. In the original "locked threads" thread, the thread was locked by DXO. I'm not saying it was wrong, but was there a reason why it was locked? He said it was because of the spam, but really the last posts were right on queue.
Does there always have to be a reasonable explanation as to why a mod locked a thread? Mods are human, and humans err. Therefore, mods err. Could a mod "err" to lock a thread when it wasn't justified? I not only think it is possible, I think it has been done before.
Talesin, don't take any of this personally. I speak in the general sense. I haven't seen a thread that you've locked that didn't deserve it.
we have all seen threads locked that we didn't find reasons for.
we have all seen people temp banned for reasons we couoldn't find
and we have all seen our fingers typing...
three things, that happen, but don't really matter much, once they are done, they are done...
yes, mods are human yes, we have a sense of humor yes, we know that others don't share our feelings for "what is funny" yes, we have power yes, that scares the bunk out of 60% of the mods yes, we get insulted yes, 90% of us have learned to take a break after being insulted, and look at facts, not feelings.
as an example - one day i created a thread, back before i was a moderator, it soon turned into a flame war about acuracy of information and sources.
when it was locked, i was very upset, screaming at my computer, punching pillows and my bed.
and then i took a breather, and re-read the whole post, word for word, void of emotion... and when i got done, i saw that Coil was right, me and somone else were being childish, and needed to grow up.
some things we can't see, some things we can't understand, but some things, we need to just let slide.
there, there, it's ok, we know you guys mean well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited September 2003
No, there actually does not <i>need</i> to be a justification. Mods lock topics based upon personal decision. If they see it as being neccessary, they are free to lock. The thing is, that's why mods are chosen carefully. Those that it is felt can be trusted to be rational and composed even when given that ability.
Yes, mods can err. We are human. Which is why we make a lock-post... so anyone feeling the lock was undeserved will be free to PM the mod in question asking for a clarification or to discuss why it was locked in hopes of getting a lock-removal... which has happened.
The last locked-threads post was locked as it was a re-post of a previously locked locked-threads post, which in turn was only spawned as the originator was irritated that one of his OTHER threads had been locked. Punitive thread-posting after a lock is bad form, and can carry repercussions. In addition, a locked-thread topic is not specifically in regards to NS. It likely would have been moved (though I'm not sure where, honestly) and then locked. Instead, it was simply locked in place to save time. And then a re-posting happened. Which was locked. And now this one. Which, rightfully, should have been locked by now in all honesty on general principles alone... but hopefully this one will get it out of the system so we can carry on elsewhere.
The short version: If you have a problem with a thread that was locked, PM the mod/admin who locked it.
Alright, since none of you want to take your Ritalin and read through the original "Why are threads being locked?" thread, I'll answer WHY it was locked (and the reason was stated at least twice.)
Do not air your dirty laundry with mods in front of everyone. PM them. Talk to them like they're normal human beings. Don't put the whole lot of on trial before the entire NS community so you can prove something.
It sounds abit stupid that a locked thread can be unlocked. It shows that the thread was locked for no reason. I thought there were rules and such, if a thread is locked it would be locked due to breaking the rules. the only way it would be unlocked is if the rules infact wernt broken but then the thread should neva have been locked in the first place.
There should be rules for the mods stating when and why they should lock a thread, there shouldnt be anything personal behind it. Like if a thread is posted about a topic that has been discussed before but its a different aspect of it. what happens if u dislike it. then u just close it on the grounds that its been said before. then there could be another one but u like it so it doesnt get closed, sounds abit wrong. Thats putting it pretty vague though.
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
edited September 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Sep 13 2003, 09:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Sep 13 2003, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It sounds abit stupid that a locked thread can be unlocked. It shows that the thread was locked for no reason. I thought there were rules and such, if a thread is locked it would be locked due to breaking the rules. the only way it would be unlocked is if the rules infact wernt broken but then the thread should neva have been locked in the first place.
There should be rules for the mods stating when and why they should lock a thread, there shouldnt be anything personal behind it. Like if a thread is posted about a topic that has been discussed before but its a different aspect of it. what happens if u dislike it. then u just close it on the grounds that its been said before. then there could be another one but u like it so it doesnt get closed, sounds abit wrong. Thats putting it pretty vague though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to strongly disagree with the first two sentences of your post (and thus, disagree with much of the following content based on it.) I can specifically remember 2 good cases where I was involved with threads that were locked and unlocked with perfectly good reason for both.
1. I locked a thread in General Server Support that was talking about disabling CD checks. Thinking it was a thread talking about disabling anti-piracy checks, I locked it, saying that another mod/admin could unlock it if I was misunderstanding something. As it turns out, by "CD" they were talking about the "Cheating-Death" program, so it was unlocked within minutes by sending a simple, short, polite PM request. If <i>anyone</i> has a thread that is locked due to a misunderstanding, PM the moderator and it will be looked into. 2. I locked a 2.0 balance thread because the people within it and I all agreed that it would be more fair/intelligent/what have you to discuss it later rather than the first few days 2.0 was out. The thread was locked under the agreement that anyone could PM me a reminder to re-open it in one week (or was it two? I forget.) The moment I got a PM to remind me, it was re-opened.
There are other cases where threads are locked and re-opened, such as the Off-Topic "post your picture" thread. It was starting to get spammy (pages and pages of people discussing random things instead of posting any of their pictures). It was locked so a mod could clean it up by deleting irrelevant, picture-free posts, and has now been re-opened.
Few threads do get unlocked, but of those I've seen, I can't think of a single one that didn't have some good reason behind locking it in the first place.
Comments
It's stupid to try and change someone else (in this case, the mods). Instead, try removing your own contribution to the problem.
In a different forum where ppl were going on about the HL2 benchmarks some one went all out agressive cos he was **** off cos he didnt like ppl just dismissing certain gfx card cos the other did better in the benchmark. he still got his point across and it made sense, he just put it in an agressive manner, he actualy made more sense than the ppl who were against him.
and yet, the post being locked still does not prevent you from helping this individual.
Use the PM feature on the board. It's not there to look pretty.
The simple fact is - the board was being drowned in Steam releated posts - theres no need for it in the <b>General</b> forum for <b>Natural-Selection</b>.
Sure - if it were a steam board, this would be the perfect forum for it. But its not. It's for general discussion about Natural-Selection. Not Steam.
And if it is, it'll only prove that ViolenceJack and I were right.
This thread is already on boardline flame war.
Even if the mods did decide to lock it - your point?
Like its been stated countless times before, this isn't a democracy. You have no <b>rights</b> here. Posting here is not a right, its a privilage and that privilage can be taken away at any time.
The Mods don't simply lock posts because they're bored. Thats why Im not a Mod. I've been here forever, but the people in charge know me (rofl, fku guys <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). They don't entrust Mod status to individuals, such as myself, who would like nothing more to lock the majority of the posts I see and quite frankly, ban a whole mess of you people.
Sure - if it were a steam board, this would be the perfect forum for it. But its not. It's for general discussion about Natural-Selection. Not Steam. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could have simply moved the threads asking for help too the off-topic forum. although he just closed everything steam related and had no thought to what he was doing. he probably just closed everything with the word steam in the title or somin and just locked it and posted that there is a steam thread in off-topic. he obviously couldnt be arsed to just check for 1 sec what the thread was really about.
If you have a question about Steam, post it in the Steam thread. Don't start a new topic.
This is a general discussion for Natural-Selection. Not Steam.
Theres already a post in the off topic forums (which, Steam is - off topic). Why drown the OTF with senseless Steam related posts if theres already one there.
Steam posts were poping up like .. one every minute or so ... could you be arsed to filter through every single one on a forum that had absolutly nothing to do with the topic?
Damn you and your speed h4x coil!
curses!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that was me who moved those out of the way.
In fact, I had read each of those now-locked topics in entirety. Those with direct informational content which was not repeated, or an answer to a thread on the same page (ie: anyone gotten Steam working? and I got Steam to Work!!) were moved to Off-Topic. As I recall, there were only three of them.
At that point though, through the miracle of tabbed browsing, it became simple to lock the others in a very short space of time, without the chance of a mis-lock.
And why were they locked, instead of moved?
Because they would have been locked in Off-Topic once they arrived, as most of them were duplicates.
Plus, it left a very visible warning to people who visited the forum at that time, only to be confronted with a full page of Steam topics locked in G-D. ie: <b>Steam topics do not belong in General Discussion.</b> It appears that most have caught this subtle clue.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some mod did, i have seen some that have been moved the way it should be done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
then ... I guess saying "the way it should have been done" is really a pointless comment - seeing as, in your own sentence even, you agreed that the mod handled the situation correctly ...?
Breaking your sentence up;
"the way it should be done." - refering to <b>your</b> ideas on how a moderator should act.
"i have seen some that have been moved" - well .... why add that last bit - if its how you think the mod should have handled it ...
Basically, I guess Im just trying to say that sentence, made absolutly no sense to me ...
Does there always have to be a reasonable explanation as to why a mod locked a thread? Mods are human, and humans err. Therefore, mods err. Could a mod "err" to lock a thread when it wasn't justified? I not only think it is possible, I think it has been done before.
Talesin, don't take any of this personally. I speak in the general sense. I haven't seen a thread that you've locked that didn't deserve it.
we have all seen people temp banned for reasons we couoldn't find
and we have all seen our fingers typing...
three things, that happen, but don't really matter much, once they are done, they are done...
yes, mods are human
yes, we have a sense of humor
yes, we know that others don't share our feelings for "what is funny"
yes, we have power
yes, that scares the bunk out of 60% of the mods
yes, we get insulted
yes, 90% of us have learned to take a break after being insulted, and look at facts, not feelings.
as an example - one day i created a thread, back before i was a moderator, it soon turned into a flame war about acuracy of information and sources.
when it was locked, i was very upset, screaming at my computer, punching pillows and my bed.
and then i took a breather, and re-read the whole post, word for word, void of emotion... and when i got done, i saw that Coil was right, me and somone else were being childish, and needed to grow up.
some things we can't see, some things we can't understand, but some things, we need to just let slide.
The thing is, that's why mods are chosen carefully. Those that it is felt can be trusted to be rational and composed even when given that ability.
Yes, mods can err. We are human. Which is why we make a lock-post... so anyone feeling the lock was undeserved will be free to PM the mod in question asking for a clarification or to discuss why it was locked in hopes of getting a lock-removal... which has happened.
The last locked-threads post was locked as it was a re-post of a previously locked locked-threads post, which in turn was only spawned as the originator was irritated that one of his OTHER threads had been locked. Punitive thread-posting after a lock is bad form, and can carry repercussions.
In addition, a locked-thread topic is not specifically in regards to NS. It likely would have been moved (though I'm not sure where, honestly) and then locked. Instead, it was simply locked in place to save time. And then a re-posting happened. Which was locked. And now this one. Which, rightfully, should have been locked by now in all honesty on general principles alone... but hopefully this one will get it out of the system so we can carry on elsewhere.
The short version: If you have a problem with a thread that was locked, PM the mod/admin who locked it.
Do not air your dirty laundry with mods in front of everyone. PM them. Talk to them like they're normal human beings. Don't put the whole lot of on trial before the entire NS community so you can prove something.
There should be rules for the mods stating when and why they should lock a thread, there shouldnt be anything personal behind it. Like if a thread is posted about a topic that has been discussed before but its a different aspect of it. what happens if u dislike it. then u just close it on the grounds that its been said before. then there could be another one but u like it so it doesnt get closed, sounds abit wrong. Thats putting it pretty vague though.
There should be rules for the mods stating when and why they should lock a thread, there shouldnt be anything personal behind it. Like if a thread is posted about a topic that has been discussed before but its a different aspect of it. what happens if u dislike it. then u just close it on the grounds that its been said before. then there could be another one but u like it so it doesnt get closed, sounds abit wrong. Thats putting it pretty vague though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to strongly disagree with the first two sentences of your post (and thus, disagree with much of the following content based on it.) I can specifically remember 2 good cases where I was involved with threads that were locked and unlocked with perfectly good reason for both.
1. I locked a thread in General Server Support that was talking about disabling CD checks. Thinking it was a thread talking about disabling anti-piracy checks, I locked it, saying that another mod/admin could unlock it if I was misunderstanding something. As it turns out, by "CD" they were talking about the "Cheating-Death" program, so it was unlocked within minutes by sending a simple, short, polite PM request. If <i>anyone</i> has a thread that is locked due to a misunderstanding, PM the moderator and it will be looked into.
2. I locked a 2.0 balance thread because the people within it and I all agreed that it would be more fair/intelligent/what have you to discuss it later rather than the first few days 2.0 was out. The thread was locked under the agreement that anyone could PM me a reminder to re-open it in one week (or was it two? I forget.) The moment I got a PM to remind me, it was re-opened.
There are other cases where threads are locked and re-opened, such as the Off-Topic "post your picture" thread. It was starting to get spammy (pages and pages of people discussing random things instead of posting any of their pictures). It was locked so a mod could clean it up by deleting irrelevant, picture-free posts, and has now been re-opened.
Few threads do get unlocked, but of those I've seen, I can't think of a single one that didn't have some good reason behind locking it in the first place.