Equivalents
Windelkron
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
<div class="IPBDescription">somewhat of a balance discussion</div> 1) Large games
- Is a squad of 7 marines equal to a squad of 7 skulks?
No. Skulks have the ability to take out multiple marines at once, while individual marines can usually only kill 1 or 2 skulks max. So in large games, even though marines have the resource advantage, marines can't even get out of their base! Thus they lose. Not to mention insane RFK from the aliens.
2) Turrets
- Is a marine turret equal to an alien turret?
NO! A single marine turrets can be taken out by 1 skulk. This ability in itself defeats the entire purpose of turrets and only leads to turret farming.
But alien turrets can't be taken out by a single marine. They're too accurate & powerful, and I think they heal themselves. Even a squad of marines has a very hard time taking out a single OC. When a WoL is discovered, the marine strategy changes to "This hallway is no longer accessible" because, short of sieges or copious amounts of grenades, the WoL will never go away. However, small turret outposts and even farms are easily brushed aside by aliens because turrets are so weak. Redemption only makes it worse, because it allows the aliens to destroy the turrets one by one without allowing the turrets to contribute any RFK to the team (gigantic loss of money).
Also, it is just me, or do OCs have much more "unbuilt" health than marine turrets? It's hard enough to kill a gorge dancing around an OC, and then you're faced with a ~1000 health structure that's slowly but surely building itself to kill you in 1 point-blank shot.
- Is a squad of 7 marines equal to a squad of 7 skulks?
No. Skulks have the ability to take out multiple marines at once, while individual marines can usually only kill 1 or 2 skulks max. So in large games, even though marines have the resource advantage, marines can't even get out of their base! Thus they lose. Not to mention insane RFK from the aliens.
2) Turrets
- Is a marine turret equal to an alien turret?
NO! A single marine turrets can be taken out by 1 skulk. This ability in itself defeats the entire purpose of turrets and only leads to turret farming.
But alien turrets can't be taken out by a single marine. They're too accurate & powerful, and I think they heal themselves. Even a squad of marines has a very hard time taking out a single OC. When a WoL is discovered, the marine strategy changes to "This hallway is no longer accessible" because, short of sieges or copious amounts of grenades, the WoL will never go away. However, small turret outposts and even farms are easily brushed aside by aliens because turrets are so weak. Redemption only makes it worse, because it allows the aliens to destroy the turrets one by one without allowing the turrets to contribute any RFK to the team (gigantic loss of money).
Also, it is just me, or do OCs have much more "unbuilt" health than marine turrets? It's hard enough to kill a gorge dancing around an OC, and then you're faced with a ~1000 health structure that's slowly but surely building itself to kill you in 1 point-blank shot.
Comments
2) 2 clips of LMG ammo kills an OC. All you have to do is use corners to your advantage and OCs cant stop you. And 1 skulk cannot kill 1 turret (unless the TF has a blind spot, and isn't electrified, in which case it deserves to be killed so easily) unless he makes mulitple runs. But oh wait! A marine can do the same thing.
1)Try and find a bit of it to shoot around a corner(remember that sometimes turrets don't shoot until they are being shot at).
2)Corner strafe! Go out from around a corner, fire a burst, go back behind the corner. Very likely that this can be pulled off without being hit(I've done it many times). It's definitly far better than just standing there exchanging fire with the OC!
#1 is more efficient(time and healthwise), but sometimes it's tough to get a piece of the OC to show up.
And a marine with a little medpack support can EASILY take out OCs, even in groups. It's usually possible to find an angle so that only the OC you're firing on can hit you. A medpack or two will keep you alive for a long time. In the end, in every marine game I've won, a lot of the credit goes to comm. It's very simple:<ul><li>Marine alone: Weak.<li>Marine with comm watching: Uber.<li>Alien: Medium.</ul>So, as you can see, the comm is critical for the marine's success. And I believe there is a general lack of good comms, simply because you will get flamed for performing badly, and because it's so hard to learn. If people would just accept that you sometimes have bad comms, but that they'll need experience if they're gonna get better, and that the marines will profit in the long run, many problems would be solved.
So begin by cutting your comm some slack. With his aid, you're unstoppable.
- Is a squad of 7 marines equal to a squad of 7 skulks?
No. Skulks have the ability to take out multiple marines at once, while individual marines can usually only kill 1 or 2 skulks max. So in large games, even though marines have the resource advantage, marines can't even get out of their base! Thus they lose. Not to mention insane RFK from the aliens.
2) Turrets
- Is a marine turret equal to an alien turret?
NO! A single marine turrets can be taken out by 1 skulk. This ability in itself defeats the entire purpose of turrets and only leads to turret farming.
But alien turrets can't be taken out by a single marine. They're too accurate & powerful, and I think they heal themselves. Even a squad of marines has a very hard time taking out a single OC. When a WoL is discovered, the marine strategy changes to "This hallway is no longer accessible" because, short of sieges or copious amounts of grenades, the WoL will never go away. However, small turret outposts and even farms are easily brushed aside by aliens because turrets are so weak. Redemption only makes it worse, because it allows the aliens to destroy the turrets one by one without allowing the turrets to contribute any RFK to the team (gigantic loss of money).
Also, it is just me, or do OCs have much more "unbuilt" health than marine turrets? It's hard enough to kill a gorge dancing around an OC, and then you're faced with a ~1000 health structure that's slowly but surely building itself to kill you in 1 point-blank shot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Just wow.
Assuming equal skill, 7 Marines usually beat 7 skulks. And quite easily too.
1 OC is nothing. A single Marine can take it out easy (2 clips of LMG). Multiple Marines take out multiple (unguarded) OC's easy.
No point in arguing or debating this since your experiences (if that is what they are) are so far from mine, and from what I can tell, everyone elses.
1.) 7 aliens vs. 7 marnes.
Lets say they are all vanilla marines and skulks. They are all thrown into a fairly large room. They are all of equal skill. What do you have?
<span style='color:RED'>PWNED ALIENS</span>
Dude.. it's simple, really. Marine firepower stacks. Alien firepower never stacks. Marines can always hit their target if they are in sights. Aliens cannot. Marine's in large groups always have the advantage over large groups of aliens. You need bigger lifeforms to tackle on that sorta crap.
If you can aim, which for some reason I feel this element is missing, then you will own the skulks hardcore. Too large of games are nearly impossible for aliens to win due to how hard it is for them to get res, and how much easier the marines have it with a larger volume of bullets.
2.) A marine turret is way better than an alien turret...
The biggest reason is that an OC can just be sniped by poking your gun around the courner. It will never hit you. That's reason numero uno.
Next, a marine turret is much faster firing, is more accurate, and are a hell of a lot cheaper (10 res out of a shared pool vs. 10 res out of a individual pool... do the math). They also build faster. They also can be built in unlimited numbers.
im not telling you what you miussed in your simple but wromg math.
This, however, does not work if the OC has aliens nearby. The aliens have hivesight, for when buildings are being attacked, they can easily go off and save them. If a marine turret is being attacked they have no idea, unless the comm gives orders to go save the turrets and whatever buildings they're protecting. However, by the time the marines get there the RT and TF are already gone, or at least most of the time. (from my experience)
However, it's not really fair to compare just a specific part of the game- base defense- when so much more must be considered when it comes to overall balance. And overall- I think the game is fairly balanced (in 2.01e). Though I must admit I think I've been seeing more alien wins...
-JohnnySmash
All in all I believe LMG marines and skulks are pretty balanced.
-JohnnySmash
As for OCs, once again it depends on the circumstances. Assuming it is 1 vs 1 even if the marine is standing in the open, he will come out on top.
If it is 7 vs 7, it all depends on how much cover the marines have and if they concentrate their fire, taking out one OC at a time.
you find the corner-angle on one of them, and work your way through them. theoretically, there is no arrangement of OCs that will always hit a marine attacking them (and i'm pretty sure this holds true in practice). there is one exception I can think of, however. and no it doesn't involve sensories.
one skulk has no 'angle' on a turret. 7 turrets just makes that impossible (for one skulk). The most effective turret-farm removal technique is, again, teamwork.
that all said, marines vs ochambers > skulks vs turrets.
-aya
U think the 7 rines will shoot at teh same skulk at the same time? THere are so many targets it gets frickin' disorienting. THe problem is they'lll come at u @ the same time. Quite naturally u'll hit the skulk closest to u, which depends on ur position. How in the world will ur firepower stack? Unless the skulks are in a tight coridoor of course...
And what happens if the skulks are all hanging above ceilings/doorways ambushing. THe marines are toast. They walk in single file, check the ceiling, get chomped (99% of the time even if they checked) and the 7 skulks run right into the unsuspecting 6 marines and tear 'em to shreds. You just can't kill 'em fast enough @ such a short distance.
Turrets are infinitely stronger than OC's. They fire faster, are more accurate and have a small size which means it is easy to bunch 'em all up strategically. 1 skulk cannot blow one turret but 1 marine could blow an oc with 2 lmg clips - shooting whilst strafing.
If Marines show up, turn tail and run. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If Marines show up, turn tail and run. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
0_o