Is Stacking Alien Chambers An Exploit?
Ollj
our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
<div class="IPBDescription">2.0 Towers > 1.04 WOL</div> Im not talking about alien chamber towers of up to 3 chambers (classic wall of lame).
<b>I am talking about towers of 3 or more chambers that you can pass by without being blocked</b> (but shoot)
Okay first; in 1.04 stacking alien chambers was really fine but in 2.0 it might not...
Before you laught at this stop playing like 1.04 .
In 1.04 offense chambers were too unprecise -> they most times only made sense as wall that blocks physically so you placed them next to each other most times.
You also had only a few gorges and you needed to have single paths blocked heavily without a healing gorge nearby.
In 2.0 offense chambers are more pecise, you no longer need to build walls of them.
They are precise enough to stack them to a tower, each oc having a 360° field of view.
With slow self healing of everything and multiple gorges a DC at an OCs backside is no longer essential!
Another change is the increased hulls (onos ...) and the better movement upgrades so wide walls of oc suck compared to thin towers.
Sieges and GL are now more viable but against towers they suck because of no vertical damage and cheaper "more viable" sieges.
Then there is the bug of chambers not falling down when the chamber below is destroyed, they hovar without flapping.
Cloaked hovaring chambers are "unbeatable".
<b>thats the strat/problem</b>
Instead of building OCs next to each other around the corner (WOL) place them on top of each other in the middle of a crossing, easy to fire along all hallways. Build 3 above each other at least, 4-5 are perfect. a tower of 2 oc is beatable easily. You dont even need a dc, but if just place it on top of thast tower, its damn hard to hit it up there.
The gorge should heal that chamber while running on or behind it.
<b>The biggest advantage of towers:</b>
- all chambers begin to shoot at the same aim at the same time killing it faster. marines cant take down one oc after another. They face the mall at once!!!!
- hard to siege, gl, hmg shoot (harder than WOL).
- Doesnt block aliens fast movement.
- they dont fall to the ground when the lower one gets shot (bug).
<b>simple example</b>
20er server. 3 gorges build 5 ocs in atmos and a sc/dc/mc on top.
impossible for 10 marines to kill this (with a dc/mc and healing gorges) because each oc hits deadly.
And ive seen a left over SC hovaring without flapping many times...
Its even hard with sieges to kill that because of the missing vertical damage, it even aims ther higher chamber first not hurting any alien on the ground... and thats the exploit of it.
<b>Another funny extreme example</b>
(Rarely works but is fun)
Towers of more than 8 DCs in siege range of a marines relocation spot.
it doesnt really matter that this two towers get sieged, they heal fine and dont take that much damage.
Only works with a celerity army to cover the sieged tower.
Ive had much fun with oc towers of 7 ocs (no dc) killing one HA/HMG/GL after another with me beeing anywere else.
Marines died like flies.
Yeah its much res but sometimes strong defenses are needed and worth that fun.
Best works on ns_eclipse with wide paths and high ceelings.
<b>stop building walls and learn how to build towers.</b>
Fix that gravity bug and tell me if towers are too good when used extremely.
A gorge can jump on top of a resnode from the top of another gorge and build a tower ON the resnode, really evil...
<b>I am talking about towers of 3 or more chambers that you can pass by without being blocked</b> (but shoot)
Okay first; in 1.04 stacking alien chambers was really fine but in 2.0 it might not...
Before you laught at this stop playing like 1.04 .
In 1.04 offense chambers were too unprecise -> they most times only made sense as wall that blocks physically so you placed them next to each other most times.
You also had only a few gorges and you needed to have single paths blocked heavily without a healing gorge nearby.
In 2.0 offense chambers are more pecise, you no longer need to build walls of them.
They are precise enough to stack them to a tower, each oc having a 360° field of view.
With slow self healing of everything and multiple gorges a DC at an OCs backside is no longer essential!
Another change is the increased hulls (onos ...) and the better movement upgrades so wide walls of oc suck compared to thin towers.
Sieges and GL are now more viable but against towers they suck because of no vertical damage and cheaper "more viable" sieges.
Then there is the bug of chambers not falling down when the chamber below is destroyed, they hovar without flapping.
Cloaked hovaring chambers are "unbeatable".
<b>thats the strat/problem</b>
Instead of building OCs next to each other around the corner (WOL) place them on top of each other in the middle of a crossing, easy to fire along all hallways. Build 3 above each other at least, 4-5 are perfect. a tower of 2 oc is beatable easily. You dont even need a dc, but if just place it on top of thast tower, its damn hard to hit it up there.
The gorge should heal that chamber while running on or behind it.
<b>The biggest advantage of towers:</b>
- all chambers begin to shoot at the same aim at the same time killing it faster. marines cant take down one oc after another. They face the mall at once!!!!
- hard to siege, gl, hmg shoot (harder than WOL).
- Doesnt block aliens fast movement.
- they dont fall to the ground when the lower one gets shot (bug).
<b>simple example</b>
20er server. 3 gorges build 5 ocs in atmos and a sc/dc/mc on top.
impossible for 10 marines to kill this (with a dc/mc and healing gorges) because each oc hits deadly.
And ive seen a left over SC hovaring without flapping many times...
Its even hard with sieges to kill that because of the missing vertical damage, it even aims ther higher chamber first not hurting any alien on the ground... and thats the exploit of it.
<b>Another funny extreme example</b>
(Rarely works but is fun)
Towers of more than 8 DCs in siege range of a marines relocation spot.
it doesnt really matter that this two towers get sieged, they heal fine and dont take that much damage.
Only works with a celerity army to cover the sieged tower.
Ive had much fun with oc towers of 7 ocs (no dc) killing one HA/HMG/GL after another with me beeing anywere else.
Marines died like flies.
Yeah its much res but sometimes strong defenses are needed and worth that fun.
Best works on ns_eclipse with wide paths and high ceelings.
<b>stop building walls and learn how to build towers.</b>
Fix that gravity bug and tell me if towers are too good when used extremely.
A gorge can jump on top of a resnode from the top of another gorge and build a tower ON the resnode, really evil...
Comments
Zee
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and for those of you complaining of too many OCs in one area, well, just get a GL. the GL is basically a portable seige. It can fire around corners and does fair damage. towers are harder to hit, but they fall quicker due to a less # of chambers. Also dont forget a OC stacked strait ontop of another OC will block the bottom OC's shot; basically making only 1 OC (the top) fire.
# of OCs in one area shouldn't be changed, imo... what can you do with 4 OCs? not much...
[edit] if this is telling players how to make stuff, i vote this be moved to Kharaa strategies, and to answer the question in the title, it is not a exploit. That is not my opinion; its the truth. Why? marine stacking was taken out, and alien stacking left in.[/edit]
OT
OT
OT
OT
DC
MT
Fast firing, self healing and when they GL it top towers dont get hit by ground level blasts. Killing 2 (hovering with out flapping) OTs is NOT easy with nader. I never noticed that siege dient hurt em though...
Thats a suprise, If you have a hanging hive with DCs under it dont they all get hit >?
Also, OCs stacked on top of each other will sometimes block the attack of the one below it. The only "exploit" I see with stacking alien chambers is to block elevators (especially on NS_Nothing).
Also, OCs stacked on top of each other will sometimes block the attack of the one below it. The only "exploit" I see with stacking alien chambers is to block elevators (especially on NS_Nothing). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...and I think Flayra said that was okay... I mean, there's vents to get down there, and you can siege... not to mention you block onos as well.
The bottom one will not fire properly. It just shoots the top one. Instead build a defence chamber behind the first OC and build the second OC on top of that.
Also, you must be very careful not to completely block the hallway or Onos won't be able to get through.
I usually do something like this:
............|..O...|
............|OOO|
where O is an OC. The upper middle OC is sitting on a defense chamber farther back. Onso can still jump over the side towers.
And it certainly isn't an expliot. If a gorge wants to spend 50 res to block a hallway then a 0 res marine should not be able to just waltz right past. A 20 res GL can easily take down 50 - 100 res of structures.
It's not an exploit, it's a part of the game. Suck it up, Princess.
Stacking OCs could make them totally useless if you do it incorrectly since you could in fact cover the area where the spikes originate from, thus, nullifying an entire OC
You can have 50 turrets in a single area (eg: chemical transport in tanith) and thus make it a death trap for a gorge, skulk or maybe even a fade if they so much as walk in for a second. You cannot build 50 ocs, they wouldn't fit even if you were allowed.
I do believe the OCs and sentries were made smaller so it was easier to jump over them, not for them to be stacked.
If you want oc towers to be removed, I would be inclined to agree as well, ONLY when the moment arrives when they stick a limit to how many turrets you could have in the one location.
Actually, they were made smaller to more accurately fit their hitboxes. And IIRC they were made harder to stack too (I think they tried to make them unstackable, but the hard-stackig is the closest they got).
The bottom one will not fire properly. It just shoots the top one. Instead build a defence chamber behind the first OC and build the second OC on top of that.
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OCs only fire incorrectly stacked when the top OC is a bit in front of the bottom one (at least in 1.04, it's definately not worse in 2.0). Angle the tower a bit away from the marine side, and they work fine.
Really the best way to make alien defenses imo is too space out the OCs and putting DCs as well, this is better because marines think they can just run or jump past them but dont know there is infact quite a few behind them. another bonus with this is siege isnt as effective as all the chambers dont get massive dmg on them cos they dont sit next to each other. It would be nice if they bring back the old closed beta faster firing OCs with MC thing, well i think it was there.
WOLs are skilless and, well, lame. Thoughtful defences, with cunning OC traps, are ten times better than any WOL. Chances are if marines see a WOL they'll send a GL to take it out, or siege it. If a marine sees some non-WOL defences it's possible he'll think he can take it on himself, and be either killed or weakened enough to be an easy kill as a result.
Think about it. If there really were aliens out there like in this game, wouldn't they be able to build structures in a pattern like that?
In real life, you wouldn't be able to yell at a gorge for building like that. They wouldn't understand you as it is.
OMG WOL YOU NUB ADMIN BAN HIM FROM SERVER!11!11!! heh, that wouldn't cut it in real life. You'd be dead.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Ok that sounds incredibly stupid. So what if your marines and you build 8 or more turrets in one location is that "exploit-ish"
Either way, I don't care how many there are... as long as the server doesn't crash.
You could build 50 OCs all blocking one area, but marines aren't going to put up with that. They'll just siege. And while you might think adding a few more OCs will help defense more, it won't. Marines are so predictable. Put enough o chambers up, and they'll siege. This is why I put enough to make it appear like marines can handle it, but can't.
If you're trying to stop a group of HAs from coming through, that's one thing. But if you are aggressively building near their base, they'll only make a siege. The best "aggressive" building you can do is enough O chambers to ward off 3 or 4 marines attacking at any given time, but provide plenty of defense chambers and such for your team nearby.
If "covertness" is what you strive for (like my gorging technique a lot of times), I put up sens first, then lots of defense chambers. This way, onos can go back and forth healing and recovering, and if marine checks out the area, he will only find that cloaked onos ready to devour him. Humans won't even think about making siege if there is no evidence of structures nearby. Meanwhile, it is the ideal place for lerks, onos, and fades to rest and recover.