New Layout In The Works
KungFuSquirrel
Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">ns_sepulcher</div> Well, I've taken some time off from NS mapping since 2.0 released, but I'm gearing back up for getting to work on part 2 of the original Eclipse trilogy as planned (ns_eclipse, ns_aelin, and ns_valhalla). What better way to get back into the swing of things with another in-between map? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> This one's currently under the working title of ns_sepulcher, and like Veil is intended to be a small and (unlike Veil) quickly produced map. Here's what I've got of the layout at the moment:
Red = Nozzle
Blue = CC
Green = Hive
<img src='http://www.planethalflife.com/awmaps/pics/ns_sepulcher.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
There's a couple obvious problems, first the lack of 'vents' (the reason that's in quotes will be more apparent later), and second and most notably the lack of any sort of nozzle close to the marine spawn (a problem similar to what I had in early versions of Veil, for those who recall).
The narrow bits are 128 units wide. Let me know what you think. It's really young and really horrible at this point, so don't be afraid to shred it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Red = Nozzle
Blue = CC
Green = Hive
<img src='http://www.planethalflife.com/awmaps/pics/ns_sepulcher.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
There's a couple obvious problems, first the lack of 'vents' (the reason that's in quotes will be more apparent later), and second and most notably the lack of any sort of nozzle close to the marine spawn (a problem similar to what I had in early versions of Veil, for those who recall).
The narrow bits are 128 units wide. Let me know what you think. It's really young and really horrible at this point, so don't be afraid to shred it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Just my 2pence, but I think a sheetload of vents would counteract this potential problem <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<KungFuSquirrel> I will destroy you.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
edit:
almost forgot my thoughts...
It looks pretty easy for aliens to be honest. All they have to do is follow the main route and they eventually meet up with all three hives. I suggest cutting them up abit, so aliens have to get closer to Marine Start rather than avoiding it totally.
Well, now thinking bout it, eclipse was kinda layed out that way. MS@12 Hive 1@3 2@6 3@9. Maybe some more intertwining halls inbetween.
I doubt that helps much, Im not that good at explaining things. But the layout really doesn't appeal to me at all. How bout u taking one of your nightwatch maps, rearrange the layout a bit, and put it in ns. I love the quality of those maps you got over there. Got one question, how the hell do ya do that!
Ehh, single-player is by definition much more detailed (1200 wpoly max, remember. That's way over the limit.) and layout-wise much more linear. I'd say it's impossible really. Anyway...
Layout reminds me of Veil alot. MS doesn't look too defendable (3 separate routes going in?), and the middle hive looks a lot farther away from the MS than the other 2 hives.
Another thing is the layout looks liek the layout for a gameplay map, and not a ship/station. And yes this is another attempt by me to get map authors to make their levels logical and functional.
Also it appears the marines lack any res-nodes that are orientated towards them capping them. E.G. Station Access Alpha on Eclipse, the weldable RT in Lost.
I really don't see it as being that symmetrical. :-\
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing is the layout looks liek the layout for a gameplay map, and not a ship/station.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said it was a ship/station?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also it appears the marines lack any res-nodes that are orientated towards them capping them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> second and most notably the lack of any sort of nozzle close to the marine spawn<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I know... The idea is that you help me figure out how to fix this, not just tell me that it's a problem. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How bout u taking one of your nightwatch maps, rearrange the layout a bit, and put it in ns.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to play a mostly linear, non-MP designed map in a completely non-NS type setting... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Added vents, the crossing ones do not intersect. Not meant to be that straight.
Becausyed its a small map most vents should be acessable by marines, not sure wich ones.
Added 2 OR-resnodes wich means only one of them is buildable ingame (choosen by random at game start or by buttons).
Maybe thoose vents make it too easy securing 2-3 hives for aliens, maybe make both purple resnodes buildable, maybe just make them hard to defend.
- Two north routes lead only to hives. Must be intended feature and it does work in Caged, but I'm still not sure about it in this layout. Direct routes to the two hives seem to make the MS-Hive times inequal, although it's balanced by the fact that the middle hive has two relatively fast routes instead of a fast one and a slow one.
- Hives look identical in their size. Variety will probably come so I won't say more about the matter.
- Res is focused on the outer limits of the map, even with the possible res nozzle near MS. It seems that the idea is that the marines are trapped in the middle and the aliens have the initiative as they are on the outer rim with most of the res. A reversed flow of a normal map? Location of the marine kinda start supports this theory. Could be interesting.
- Pretty hallway intensive layout. Possible lack of variety?
All in all, it's not a bad layout. Simplicity of routes (aside from the MS-area) should provide important battles as losing a chokepoint means giving the enemy access to a large portion of the map. However, it lacks personality. Naturally, it would help to know what it is and what it looks like inside it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, I find the name ns_sepulcher to be... well... bad. Sorry. It sounds like a mixture of sepultura and a blender. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm torn on this. I kinda like it and I kinda don't. I'm thinking of a couple options at the moment, and I think I may have some good luck with one of them if I'm careful about it...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Hives look identical in their size. Variety will probably come so I won't say more about the matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are in fact identical at this time. The rough size will remain about the same, but the exact dimensions will vary greatly between each when all is said and done. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Res is focused on the outer limits of the map, even with the possible res nozzle near MS. It seems that the idea is that the marines are trapped in the middle and the aliens have the initiative as they are on the outer rim with most of the res. A reversed flow of a normal map? Location of the marine kinda start supports this theory. Could be interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could be, but I dunno if it's worth the risk. *shrug*
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Pretty hallway intensive layout. Possible lack of variety?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With what I have in mind, I don't think that'll be a problem. There'll be definitive landmarks.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All in all, it's not a bad layout. Simplicity of routes (aside from the MS-area) should provide important battles as losing a chokepoint means giving the enemy access to a large portion of the map. However, it lacks personality. Naturally, it would help to know what it is and what it looks like inside it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there's nothing inside of it at the moment. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Of course there's no personality, it's just a bunch of blocks that represent the approximate floor of the entire map. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> My goal is to have a hollow playable version very soon and then fill it in from there - the layout at this point is very easy to tweak, and will stay that way as long as I don't get too far on it before I get some basic game flow testing. My biggest annoyance with Eclipse and Veil, both before and after release, is adjusting the layout to accomodate concerns from the players. It's a huge pain in the **** most of the time, and if I can avoid it with this one, I'll give it a shot - remember, I want to make this relatively quick!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I find the name ns_sepulcher to be... well... bad. Sorry. It sounds like a mixture of sepultura and a blender.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think I just made it up? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Check your dictionary. Might learn something about what I'm going after... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> It's not literal, but not too far off.
Kage, I think that's possible, but I'll have to play around with some options. I think the new way I'm thinking of the organization and layout might help.
1) A burial vault.
2) A receptacle for sacred relics, especially in an altar.
Sounds interesting <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
In NS_eclipse, toward the center of the map, none of the hallways made you either go to the marine spawn or a hive point. You could go round the map without really ever going to any hive or marine spawn.
To fix your layout, i suggest concentrating on the center of the map above all.
Edit :: Note- Changes are not to scale.
BTW I think it's spelled sepulchre with the r and e like that. But I could be wrong of course (too lazy to get dictionary... arr)
red is tunels, greenborder around a grey box is vents rooms.
Move them down so that they are about at the same level as the center bottom one.
kinda.. "compress" the whole thing. This will make the hallways look a lot less linear and ensure you'll have more connectivity options.
Um i'm kind of confused why you would dilute your efforts in to multiple maps. Why not put that effort into completing your trilogy? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
correct me if i'm being a retard.
red is tunels, greenborder around a grey box is vents rooms. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is this a joke? no seriously, is it?
edit: [i'm mainly talking about the picture which has basically removed any sense of form]