Skulk Proof Railings

relsan · September 2003

Why is it that skulks cant climb railings? It makes no sense that they can crawl all over the station but they can't get over a railing without jumping. Is there a reason for this?

MrMojo · September 2003

I think it's something to do with the fact that it's not recognizable as a wall ( or object it can climb). Thats why you have to jump over it like everyone else. I'm probably wrong though.

Grimm · September 2003

Yea, thats always been an annoyance in game, especially when I'm running to or from a marine.

I've also noticed that sometimes I (as a skulk) cannot climb ladders, and I have to use nearby walls/surfaces instead.

DanDaMan · September 2003

yeah it's a mapping thing, railing and ladders have special textures that make parts of it seethrough, so to ensure that the empty holes between the railing doesnot block bullets, the railing is actually illusionary and then covered by a clip brush which will not block bullets, but will stop players from walking through it, unfortunately you can't climb on the clip brush

Marik_Steele · September 2003

<any mappers are free to correct the below if I am wrong>
There's at least 2 ways to do railings, with pros and cons to each.
The first is to make a long, thin object, apply the railing texture (which includes transparency information so it appears like a railing instead of an opaque barricade), and then (if desired) designate it as being something that can be shot through. As only one object, it's easier for the computer to handle.
The second is to make a "brush" for each and every vertical bar holding up the one long brush that is the horizontal bar. If the spaces under the top of the railing and between each pair of vertical bars is big enough, players can go through them, because instead of being considered a transparent part of an object, the space is actually considered empty. Needless to say it can also be shot through, and because it's made of brushes I'd assume that's how you'd make it skulk-friendly (walls, cielings, and floors are also made of brushes).

Machiavelli · September 2003

Yup steel, you have it correct. However, before people go demanding mappers to make all their railings like steel said in his 2nd example, there is a reason it is not done. I'll avoid details and just say that if the 2nd system steel mentioned was used, it would be a much bigger load on the engine to create what is the same effect, but climbable by skulks.

Maus · September 2003

Also, there's another "there are two ways to do it" too - you can either have railings that skulks can climb but marines can't shoot through, or railings that marines can shoot through and that skulks can't climb. I think the only way to work around that would be to model the railings as Marik mentioned above instead of using a transparent texture over a single block. This is less than desirable though, as it takes up resources the mapper could put to better use elsewhere, and has a bad effect on r_speeds.

Ollj · September 2003

Best railings are a mixture of all above.
This just need twice the editing and 6 times the compiling time:

The horizontal part is a solid world brush, skulks can climb it, bullets dont go trough, it increases clipnode count.
(it can be changed into a func_wall for less clipnodes but more entities and w_poly)

The vertical part is one func_illusionary with the railing texture so bullets can pass, invisible from above so the comm does not see them (less w_poly).
When the vertical part is thin enough you cant get stuck in it with precyse cliptype.

Add some wise usage of the NULL texture and you got a perfect, hell lot of work, railing.
Now take a close look at the railings of ns_nothings Readyroom <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Max · September 2003

This is fixed and will be in the next client patch we release.

Max

Witzner · September 2003

non-climable railings aren't usually that big a deal, unless you're trying to climb out of viaduct. Then you either have to go over to the sides and use the walls, or climb up the ladder like a normal human being. Which for a skulk is anathema.

Zel · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Max @ Sep 8 2003, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> This is fixed and will be in the next client patch we release.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
i was gonna say "why not make skulks be able to climb 'clip brushes'" but instead i will say "YAAAYYY!!!"

GoldenShadow · September 2003

sky brushes will be a bit weird then since they have to be clipped so you can't go into the sky brush. this will mean skulks will be able to walk on the sky in tanith if they can walk on clips in the next patch. maybe they should redesign it to have a glass shell or something

Gliss · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoldenShadow @ Sep 8 2003, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> sky brushes will be a bit weird then since they have to be clipped so you can't go into the sky brush. this will mean skulks will be able to walk on the sky in tanith if they can walk on clips in the next patch. maybe they should redesign it to have a glass shell or something </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ah, that should be good. Doesn't make sense for Marines to be on some planet and have open-air. I mean, how far have they traveled, it's only 100 years into the future, and I don't think any planets have oxygen other than Earth...

Zel · September 2003

there is a ceiling but its a red force feild. i see no reason to dissallow skulks running on it if that minor tweak will let me climb railings ffs.

Racer1 · September 2003

How about the ns devs implement a func_climbable entity? It would work like a func_illusionary, only there would be ns specific code allowing the skulks to climb it. Of course, mappers would have to change stuff on their maps, but thats not a huge problem.

Teflon · September 2003

Speaking of, why is the railing in ns_veil in the one hive invisible?

Cereal_KillR · September 2003

The most annoying thing is how ALL the railings have become like this, no matter what and not depending on the server (like sometimes ladders missing) while it was in 1.0x perfectly skulkable. Now I'm trying like an idiot to climb a little railing while I keep falling back down and my underbelly is in perfect LOS for the marine I was trying to ambush.

While it doesn't matter when you go from the ground to jump off, it's much more annoying when you're trying to get back up.

Lazer · September 2003

Pipeline has an invisible block randomly floating in there. Skulks can run under it, and to get on it you have to drop from the top. It is very werid...

Skulk Proof Railings

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