Building A Strategic Mind
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Old Fogie Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12052Members, Constellation
Old Fogie Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12052Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Armchair Generals apply within.</div> We all have a sense of what a good commander should be and what a good commander can do, but what does it take for someone to develop the mindset of thinking things through constantly? What makes somene always take note of your failures and successes, observations and such, and put them all in action? This question is directed toward those of you who are always posting strategies and are always in the comm chair: what does it take to make a strategic mind?
Of course, this isn't just for NS, but all strategy games and even many aspects of life. What are some tricks of the trade? I made a long post a while back on Sun Tzu and George Patton -- learning from the great commanders of the past is a great place to start. So is chess. But what are some of the things you armchair generals do that always keep you thinking of new strategies and tactics?
Fire away.
Of course, this isn't just for NS, but all strategy games and even many aspects of life. What are some tricks of the trade? I made a long post a while back on Sun Tzu and George Patton -- learning from the great commanders of the past is a great place to start. So is chess. But what are some of the things you armchair generals do that always keep you thinking of new strategies and tactics?
Fire away.
Comments
I find the success of my comming almost entirely depends on how willing the my team is to follow way points. I use wierd strategies that work but sound daft, (mostly relocating to stupid places) and so nobody listens. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Still, logic skills, confidence, and maybe a good strong voice that scares the s*** out of marines who haven't muted you.
Those are the skills for the comm.
I think there's three different sides to being COM.
1. Communication. This is about being able to get people to do what you want, make them feel part of the team, explain stuff etc etc. I'm obviously at a disadvantage here since english is my second language (even though NS is making me better at speaking it). This is probably the one thing that is most lacking in pub COM's.
2. Tactics/Strategies. Having a plan, knowing the map, anticipating the enemies moves and your own, responding to changes etc. This is what most people think being a COM is about, and they are right, it is a big part. (I'm pretty good at this I think).
3. Skill. This is just about being able to drop stuff quickly and effectively, and know all the functions of the game. It's not as vital as the first two. Basically this is the Marine equivalent of aim, moves and reflexes, but since you're in a chair it's not *that* important. (I've yet to use the com hotkeys and my low fps and lag makes my healt and ammo drops a bit inaccurate, so this is definetely my weak spot.)
#3 can be practised against bots or alone, #2 is improved by experience but also by looking at maps, reading strategies and just spending time thinking about it. #1 is a skill that you have already developed IRL, but of course you can tweak it for gaming purposes (unless you have a speech impediment like me).
u think a shotgun costs 10 res
me thinks a shotgun will take something like 5 seconds to be paid with 1 rt and with 5rts its just a second waste to a great damageoutput
a shotgunrush for example moves the aliens to build off chams a hive
today we made it to kill the 4 offs but we surely faild killing hive
the aliens wasted their res and got feary little aliens
they got 4 rts up vs 1, but we ceept the pressure vs them
we build 4 rts to and sieged double res
(omg noobish comm why u need 3 sieges for it and 7 sentrs)
we endet the game by 6 rts vs 3rts with a 9x marine ha-train
Mines Mines Mines - best to protect base if relocated in early beginning
to suspect what can be in future: onos cant kill jps, onos needs long to walk up a ladder to ur base *+1lmg magazine in it*
controle the movment of ur skulks and build next safest to the hive,
make them to attack where u want them to attack
(omg they taked our 3rd hive pos,all attack there!!!,
later: omg they taked double res, all attack there!!!)
Devensive make Weapon ups
Movment Armor
Sensory Observatory and SCAN <-- need a good comm
but generates a easy lockdown
pub marines dont know most time how to handle with the weapons they have, u must show them where their attack can be sucessfull, but if they dont want to, its not ur fault
I think I can tell when I made a mistake and whenever I make one I think about it and try to think of what else I might have done. So now I still just 'do what seems like the best idea at the time' but am more likely to make the right choice.
As for new strats - almost none of them are new BUT they are modified old ones. If I see a new strat on a map the first thing I do is think how best to apply it to other maps.
So I'd say you need an open mind and a good memory.
You need the open mind to make sure that you don't attribute your mistakes to others. If your marines failed you may have set your aims to high, its not always their fault they cant fulfil orders.
You need a good memory to rememer pretty much all the mistakes you have seen and done and also to remember new strats you learn on forums etc.
The best laid plans frequently go wrong. Perhaps a target of opportunity emerges midbattle. Perhaps the enemy only faked their retreat in order to draw you on.
IMHO, you wanna win, you wanna be Observant.
Generally I like to know the enemy's abilities, and the map layout, but other than that you just wing it.
someones been spying in #log.nstactics again
It pays to know exactly who is on your team, and to be able to assign them jobs. "You guys are going to hunt res, you guys will guard base, you guys will go build RTs and expansions." Knowing who's doing what, and as the game progresses (or as you come to play with a set of regulars) knowing who is good at what, who can be relied upon, who is a moron who will runoff and lose the GL the second you give it to him, is extremely important.
Of course if your entire team is absolutely determined to rambo, running off and getting killed, there's little you can do about it, but then that's life on a pub server for you.
Your organization skills are a direct multiplier to the effectiveness of your strat. Work on organizing first, and if you can do that, then you can worry about coming up with an uber strat.
Knowledge- You need to know the maps, you need to know where the res nodes are, where the hives are, and where good choke and relocation points are. If you've have at least 1/2 of a map memorized it gives your a team a large advantage. I'ts also a good thing to have a comm that knows about the buildings; if he doesn't then you're in for serious trouble. "OMG, what the! 5 CC's!"
Originality- This is also very important, and one of the rarest traits a comm has. I f you keep doing the same old tried and true methods used by thousands of comms before you you will get nowhere. Come up with new ideas, new strats to keep the aliens on their toes. Don't always relocate to a double res or hive point, come up with new spots and suprise your enemy, even if that means relocating to a vent, having an onos proof base is a very good +.
Drop an ip/tf/whatever your plan starts out with.
Ask everyone who wants to hunt for res to stand next to the starting resource tower.
Ask 3-4 people, depending on the number of marines, to stand near the ip if they want to rush the hive.
Ask 1-2 (your choice, really) people to stand somewhere else if they want to guard base.
Usually people crowd around the hive rushing, and if they do, either rush, or if it's not very viable for you plan, remind them that only 3-4 are needed.
Pass 2 shotties out to 2 of the rushers. To get the res for this, don't build two ips; you can build the second one when it's needed. (It's not needed until you start setting outposts and aliens start killing marines around it, usually)
Make sure you set the res hunting squad, the rushing squad, and the protecting squad as different squads.
Execute plan.
Organizing this takes but a few seconds, if you start telling your marines to organize while they're still building ips or whatever. And it helps a whole lot. If you need more specialized squads for your plan, ask them to stand next to the comm chair/elevator/door/pillar, whatever.
I have an insane adoration for warfare ranging from late Bronze Age to Diocletian and Constantine, though I am a less avid strategy gamer. But, having read through, with a critical eye trained by seveal years in history courses, Vegetius, and Xenophon, etc, I have a wealth of... data, I guess, to use. Throw in an emotional orientation towards strategy, it seems to result in someone who at least pretends to be a strategically minded person.
Also, guys, I don't think he wants build orders so much as what separates a thinking/adapting commander from a build order, repetition commander.
Personally I always delve into my HL mod folders asap.
If you have a sprite viewer there are also some minimap style ones...
First, you need to be intelligent in a strategic kind of way - you must be able to look at a map or screenshots and see chokepoints, ambush spots and whether a place is hard or not to defend. You have to foresee enemy countermeasures to your own actions and be able to handle several different strings of actions and reactions for every step of the way. Chess is a good way of learning this skill, and so is any strategic war game or military training.
Second, you need to be creative - you must be able to think out of the box and have original ideas. You can get a long way with variations of known themes, but if you *really* good, you will be the one to think the theme up in the first place. I think it's hard to acquire this trait if you don't have it to begin with, but you can hone it by forcing yourself to use it often. Try cooking without using a recipe or doing something you did before. Or try thinking up a colour that isn't a mixture of existing colours or a new style of music that doesn't exist already (the former is impossible and the latter very hard, but they are good ways of training anyway).
Last, but not least, you need to have experience. It is very hard to fiigure out if a strategy will work, if you haven't tried playing the game. You need to have a keen understanding of what is possible in real life - not just in theory, and the more strategies you have tried out and failed with, the better. The only way you get this experience is through training, training and training.
Have a plan
Adapt to the aliens
Make sure you have a backup plan
No freaking out ( kills the moral of your soldiers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Have a plan
Adapt to the aliens
Make sure you have a backup plan
No freaking out ( kills the moral of your soldiers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is a very succinct and excellent list of points <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> i find stoney's to be quite good too.
i'd say i'm a solidly mediocre comm, so take my 'advice' with a grain of salt.
ALWAYS be thinking of money. most comms forget this mid way into battle.
#1 is a skill that you have already developed IRL <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's were you are wrong. True nsplayers don't have a real life.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
yes we do! it consists of spawing in the morning, then chomping some breakfast, then then going off to the hive to work and build things. After a light lunch, we may scout around, until the next class, where we upgrade our skills and evolve our talents. After the ending bell we may decide to rambo around teh beach looking for marine life (but not if your Fatteh).