Ns Dont End?
Geronimo
Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11056Members
Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11056Members
<div class="IPBDescription">well..</div> How many of the games you play actually ends? Alot more games ended in total defeat in the 1.x version...
Today people just f4 cuase they know when they lost and know its a 1 / 100 win situation, but it will usually take another 1-2 hours to loose...
We need better enders...
Today people just f4 cuase they know when they lost and know its a 1 / 100 win situation, but it will usually take another 1-2 hours to loose...
We need better enders...
Comments
Today people just f4 cuase they know when they lost and know its a 1 / 100 win situation, but it will usually take another 1-2 hours to loose...
We need better enders... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah shut up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->, Marines should work together > endings... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then again, I did have a good team, so that is why.
first of all, those turrets, while deadly are not the first prority.
This is exactly what we did.
First wave. 10 vs 8 marines(two quit from marine team)
5 fades, 1 lerk, 3 gorges, 1 onos
lerk umbra main route fades took, and umbra GL's area as onos lead the charge. Onos took blast, and died within 20 seconds of attempting to enter.
Fades blink in at GL's. Begin attacking them. Lerk umbras fades and covered them. Four fades die to blast. 3 marines die. Their GL's drop to the ground. The lerk dies to turret and GL blast.
Gorges took out 7 turrets and armory with bilebomb during charge. All three died.
Second wave(had to be fast to make gap).
3 gorges, 1 onos, 5 skulks, 1 lerk(the first fade or onos that died in wave 1 goes onos again).
All charge. Onos dies almost as quickly. 5 turrets were rebuilt. The skulks xenocided doing the most damage they can , they had some minor umbra support. Skulks managed to finish off the HA and get rid of most troops and distrupt GL fire.
Gorges take out 6 turrets and the tF as well as the arms lab.
Third Wave
6 onos. 1 Lerk, 3 gorges.
The lerk lays some ubra as the onos charge in in divisions of two each. Two...wait 4 seconds, two more.
this helps to seperate GL blast radius damage. The umbra helps the majority of onos stay alive as the gorges bilebim the res of the base. Their TF goes down as do the turrets and now the base is ours.
GG.
It worked for me, and it was all done in under 10 minutes.
It's a lot easier in D, though, as a pack of oni can clear anything short of a heavy squad.
Re: Ben128's tactic -- Note the consistant part of his strategy... 3 gorges and a lerk in every attack. Everyone thinks Onos is the way to go, but the simple fact is that nothing tears a base apart like Bile Bomb.
In 2.0, aliens KNOW marines are going to use gl spam, but there is nothing they can do about it, short of a very co-ordinated rush (as above) which is pretty much impossible to organise on the average pub.
Something is fundamentally wrong there.
I'm not saying onos should be invincible, i'm just saying that there should be a more effective ani-structure weapon. As it stands, bilebomb is not too handy, since you have to be a gorge in order to use it and gorges, as we know, are not the tougthest of creatures.
By the same token, increasing the power of BB could lead to lone gorges taking out marine outposts before the marines have chance to react, which again, is not a good thing.
I'm glad I don't have to balance 2.0.... good luck devs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
best comment ever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So he made shotguns 10 res that are available with the simple drop of an armory WHY? What the hell can you do to stop a shotgun rush against marines that can AIM and a commander who drops medpacks?
So he made shotguns 10 res that are available with the simple drop of an armory WHY? What the hell can you do to stop a shotgun rush against marines that can AIM and a commander who drops medpacks? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its called teamwork, there are enough counters against shotties and medpacks, JP HMG was totally different
one example is that the best counter against JP HMG was always too late, wich was web.
umm, coordinate attacks on single members of the group? shotties have never been more than a mild annoyance to me (and I play on servers where the people have good aim). I may die a few times, but I get 2-3 other skulks to rush in and focus their attack, and by sheer attrition (usually they're too far away from base to rescue that shotty) you can win easily. Vary your attack speeds and your hopping, insert a little wall running, and VIOLA, problem solved.
<!--QuoteBegin--Geronimo+Sep 4 2003, 08:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Sep 4 2003, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->15 lvl 3 turrets and 4 lvl 3 GLs? please do tell... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no such thing as level 3 turrets bud. Turrets don't upgrade with your weapons anymore (added before 2.0 release because of the increased turret accuracy).
<!--QuoteBegin--dizzy.souls+Sep 4 2003, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dizzy.souls @ Sep 4 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->one example is that the best counter against JP HMG was always too late, wich was web.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where did you play? Even in 1.04 I almost never saw marine wins except in clan play. They were always too disorganized, and at least when I gorged, we had a hive going up by the 3 minute mark. JP/HMG strat never worked against me or the people I played with except in some scrimms.
first of all, those turrets, while deadly are not the first prority.
This is exactly what we did.
First wave. 10 vs 8 marines(two quit from marine team)
5 fades, 1 lerk, 3 gorges, 1 onos
lerk umbra main route fades took, and umbra GL's area as onos lead the charge. Onos took blast, and died within 20 seconds of attempting to enter.
Fades blink in at GL's. Begin attacking them. Lerk umbras fades and covered them. Four fades die to blast. 3 marines die. Their GL's drop to the ground. The lerk dies to turret and GL blast.
Gorges took out 7 turrets and armory with bilebomb during charge. All three died.
Second wave(had to be fast to make gap).
3 gorges, 1 onos, 5 skulks, 1 lerk(the first fade or onos that died in wave 1 goes onos again).
All charge. Onos dies almost as quickly. 5 turrets were rebuilt. The skulks xenocided doing the most damage they can , they had some minor umbra support. Skulks managed to finish off the HA and get rid of most troops and distrupt GL fire.
Gorges take out 6 turrets and the tF as well as the arms lab.
Third Wave
6 onos. 1 Lerk, 3 gorges.
The lerk lays some ubra as the onos charge in in divisions of two each. Two...wait 4 seconds, two more.
this helps to seperate GL blast radius damage. The umbra helps the majority of onos stay alive as the gorges bilebim the res of the base. Their TF goes down as do the turrets and now the base is ours.
GG.
It worked for me, and it was all done in under 10 minutes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay... it took 3 hive 3 alien waves to break a bunch of camping marines...
It only takes 1 fully upgraded marine wave to kill the last alien hive.
And what's worse, is that if the marines relocate to a hive, you have hive 2 abilities to their hive 3 stalemates are truely impossible to kill in anything less than half an hour.
I'm not talking from a clan play perspective, I'm talking pub perspective. Statemates truely <b>kill</b> the fun out of pub play.
I find it hilarious that the marine base is often times the hardest spot on the map to defend vs. an alien hive which is extreamlly easy to defend given that the aliens won't get hive 3 material to attack with and that at most alien hives the layout is <i>extreamlly</i> similiar to most marine bases.
I wonder if the mapmakers read all of Flay's guidelines for making a map, because apparently they forgot the part where the marine base is supposed to be marine friendly and the alien base is supposed to be alien friendly. Most alien maps have their hive hanging in the open to a hallway so they can be shot from outside of the room, are big and open with relativly little to no cover for aliens. I find it strange that at most alien hives the res node is easier to defend than the actual hive itself... which is just odd, considering that this makes it more easy for a marine team to stalemate if their node can't be destroyed. Whereas at a marine base, the node is always vulerable and open, and is usually positioned across from the comm chair, making it hard to defend.
The marines are by nature more defensive. They are better at securing and holding and are supposed to be tougher to take out once they take root.
Hence the fact aliens are faster to move and respond, but marines have seige and GL's.
Yes it took three waves, but its not a big deal really, because those three waves were fairly quick.
I cant really agree that it only takes 1 wave of marines to kill a hive. I will say that <b>IF</b> it works it will only take 1 wave. But its a riskier shot for marines. Because if they dont take the hive in a single wave it becomes the difficult process of taking on the now retaliating alien team.
I will also take a minor disagreement on the hive two versus marine hive relocation idea. What it does is confine the aliens to their midgame technology abiliy wise. But the plan that I tossed out is still very viable with only second hive abilities. (umbra, bilebomb, stomp, gore, blink)
I will very readily agree with you about level design. A LOT of maps decide the gameplay and how well the marines can defend a hive or their main base.
For instance I joined a random server. Marines had a base in biodome and nothing else. Aliens controlled the entire map. Marines with a little teamwork could have broken out but we did not. I saw that the marine team needed a serious tactical attitude overhaul and decided not to waste any effort and instead just wait out the stalemate.
Y? B/C altho if marines did everything right they could break out with time, aliens could have finished us whenever they wanted. But they sucked too much. They kept sending one or two onos or one or two gorges in, then bitching that they were getting bored. I told my marine team to wait it out b/c it was the aliens' own fault they couldn't win. We didn't even have any nade spammers or turrets later on.
Excuse me if I don't make any sense. Even I think I don't make sense; I'm too tired to. But allow me to condense it to this: Aliens suck too much, it's their fault the game is not over and I will make them suffer. Except that I get bored and go to a better server next and never come back <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->