The Great Chamber Debate
Archevil
Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20339Members
Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20339Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A topic 4 the sole purpose of ending it</div> Okay, here's wat I propose: Every1 (who can b bothered) posts wat chamber they like most and give GOOD reasons, bcos the only thing more annoying than a chamber war is an "X is betta than Y" war, so give us sum FACTS (e.g. 'I 1ce used sensory 1st and made a really good sens network and we made heaps of ambushes and won with only 1 hive' or sumthing similar). In order 4 this 2 work, there should b no flaming and the general forum rules need 2 b taken in2 account.
Early game is when only 1 hive is under control by the aliens, and none by marines.
Mid-game is when only 2 hives are under control, either both by aliens or 1 by marines.
End-game is when only 3 hives are under control, by either team (provided aliens have at least 1).
First, sum solid facts:
Defence Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Heals nearby structures and aliens at 5% health every 2 seconds
<li>Has a small range of effect equal to Movement Chamber
<li>Can be enhanced in range and speed with Movement Chamber
<li>Gives regeneration, carapace and redemption upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Regeneration heals 10% health every 2 seconds
<li>Carapace gives extra armour to aliens (about 1.4 times more)
<li>Redemption returns aliens to the nearest hive when they have less than a certain amount of health (not sure of numbers)
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit fades and oni (or whatever the plural of onos is) the most
<li>Upgrades benefit skulks and gorges the least
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the mid-game
</ul>
Movement Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Increases nearby alien energy restoring rates
<li>Has a small range of effect equal to Defence Chamber
<li>Gives Silence, celerity and adrenaline upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Silence causes aliens to make no noise
<li>Celerity increases movement speed
<li>Adrenaline increases alien energy restoring rates
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit all classes of aliens
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the end game
</ul>
Sensory Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Cloaks nearby structures and aliens fully even when moving
<li>Passive observatories can't uncloak a chamber-cloaked alien (possibly can with motion but I don't think so)
<li>Has a massive range of effect
<li>Can be enhanced in range and speed with Movement Chamber
<li>Gives cloaking, Scent of Fear and pheromones upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Cloaking fully cloaks non-moving aliens (can be uncloaked by passive observatories)
<li>Scent of Fear allows aliens to see through walls any marines not inside a comm chair
<li>Makes marines leave a bright "trail" behind them
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit skulks, fades and oni (or whatever the plural of onos is) the most (because of Scent of Fear, useful for ambushes AND rushes)
<li>Upgrades benefit lerks and gorges the least
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the early game
</ul>
There are only 6 possible combinations for chamber orders, and these are:
1. DMS
2. DSM
3. MDS
4. MSD
5. SDM
6. SMD
1. DMS can logically provide support for a growing alien colony, but this progress would be slow, adding a D or 2 at every outpost takes lost of resources, which a first hive often doesn't have. The M then increases the effectiveness of the D and gives essential upgrades, possibly allowing for an early win. But by the end of the game, S has lost it's usefulness and no longer provides much use with cloaking or scent of fear, but pheromones might help spot hiding marines.
2. D is the same as in DMS, but sensory second is unexpected. It means that the aliens can have increased protection and ambushing abilities. It is not as effective as DMS for an early win but could win because it is so unexpected.
3. MDS starts off with M, allowing rapid growth as it gives increased hive building speed, but is somewhat wasted as the only enhancement it gives is to the offence chamber. The D comes in and increases both D and M abilities, but once again the S is somewhat redundant in the end-game.
4. I personally think MSD is completely useless, as it gives you M upgrades, increased range on S, and faster energy regeneration. The D comes in at the end, and although it isn't useless at the end, D is somewhat more necessary as second chamber for strengthening outposts.
5. My preferred set-up, but I am always willing to adapt to my team. The S first allows incredibly fast expansion as the marines do not have the resources or the observatory energy to scan everywhere and systematically wipe out your chambers. This means aliens can set up easy skulk ambushes and get quick resources as well as hindering the marines. Then the D is built to make outposts stronger and ambush points more useful. Lastly, the M gives maximum benifits to D's and S's, thereby ensuring all chambers reach their potential. I have not lost a game using this set-up, partly because most people prefer M's first in casual games.
6.Similar to SDM, but completely useless in a hive lockdown game. Imagine trying to storm the enemies HA/HMG turret farmed hive, when you have a very concealed and fast onos? Sure you can do it, but good luck without 3 D chambers.
In summary, no chamber set-up is the best, but the aliens need to adapt to whatever strategy they can. Whether it means you don't get YOUR preferred set-up is irrelevant. Think ahead, what will advantage you over the marines if the commander likes to rush, or likes to systematically destroy your outposts. To paraphrase Darwin, in Natural Selection, only the smartest survive. (BTW I am aware sum of the facts may b wrong, just tell me and I will edit this.)
I declare the Great Chamber Debate <b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>OPEN</span></span></b>!
Early game is when only 1 hive is under control by the aliens, and none by marines.
Mid-game is when only 2 hives are under control, either both by aliens or 1 by marines.
End-game is when only 3 hives are under control, by either team (provided aliens have at least 1).
First, sum solid facts:
Defence Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Heals nearby structures and aliens at 5% health every 2 seconds
<li>Has a small range of effect equal to Movement Chamber
<li>Can be enhanced in range and speed with Movement Chamber
<li>Gives regeneration, carapace and redemption upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Regeneration heals 10% health every 2 seconds
<li>Carapace gives extra armour to aliens (about 1.4 times more)
<li>Redemption returns aliens to the nearest hive when they have less than a certain amount of health (not sure of numbers)
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit fades and oni (or whatever the plural of onos is) the most
<li>Upgrades benefit skulks and gorges the least
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the mid-game
</ul>
Movement Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Increases nearby alien energy restoring rates
<li>Has a small range of effect equal to Defence Chamber
<li>Gives Silence, celerity and adrenaline upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Silence causes aliens to make no noise
<li>Celerity increases movement speed
<li>Adrenaline increases alien energy restoring rates
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit all classes of aliens
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the end game
</ul>
Sensory Chamber:
<ul>
<li>Cloaks nearby structures and aliens fully even when moving
<li>Passive observatories can't uncloak a chamber-cloaked alien (possibly can with motion but I don't think so)
<li>Has a massive range of effect
<li>Can be enhanced in range and speed with Movement Chamber
<li>Gives cloaking, Scent of Fear and pheromones upgrades
At 3 of the chambers, these work out to:
<ul>
<li>Cloaking fully cloaks non-moving aliens (can be uncloaked by passive observatories)
<li>Scent of Fear allows aliens to see through walls any marines not inside a comm chair
<li>Makes marines leave a bright "trail" behind them
</ul>
<li>Upgrades benefit skulks, fades and oni (or whatever the plural of onos is) the most (because of Scent of Fear, useful for ambushes AND rushes)
<li>Upgrades benefit lerks and gorges the least
<li>Costs 10 resources
<li>Best (IMO) during the early game
</ul>
There are only 6 possible combinations for chamber orders, and these are:
1. DMS
2. DSM
3. MDS
4. MSD
5. SDM
6. SMD
1. DMS can logically provide support for a growing alien colony, but this progress would be slow, adding a D or 2 at every outpost takes lost of resources, which a first hive often doesn't have. The M then increases the effectiveness of the D and gives essential upgrades, possibly allowing for an early win. But by the end of the game, S has lost it's usefulness and no longer provides much use with cloaking or scent of fear, but pheromones might help spot hiding marines.
2. D is the same as in DMS, but sensory second is unexpected. It means that the aliens can have increased protection and ambushing abilities. It is not as effective as DMS for an early win but could win because it is so unexpected.
3. MDS starts off with M, allowing rapid growth as it gives increased hive building speed, but is somewhat wasted as the only enhancement it gives is to the offence chamber. The D comes in and increases both D and M abilities, but once again the S is somewhat redundant in the end-game.
4. I personally think MSD is completely useless, as it gives you M upgrades, increased range on S, and faster energy regeneration. The D comes in at the end, and although it isn't useless at the end, D is somewhat more necessary as second chamber for strengthening outposts.
5. My preferred set-up, but I am always willing to adapt to my team. The S first allows incredibly fast expansion as the marines do not have the resources or the observatory energy to scan everywhere and systematically wipe out your chambers. This means aliens can set up easy skulk ambushes and get quick resources as well as hindering the marines. Then the D is built to make outposts stronger and ambush points more useful. Lastly, the M gives maximum benifits to D's and S's, thereby ensuring all chambers reach their potential. I have not lost a game using this set-up, partly because most people prefer M's first in casual games.
6.Similar to SDM, but completely useless in a hive lockdown game. Imagine trying to storm the enemies HA/HMG turret farmed hive, when you have a very concealed and fast onos? Sure you can do it, but good luck without 3 D chambers.
In summary, no chamber set-up is the best, but the aliens need to adapt to whatever strategy they can. Whether it means you don't get YOUR preferred set-up is irrelevant. Think ahead, what will advantage you over the marines if the commander likes to rush, or likes to systematically destroy your outposts. To paraphrase Darwin, in Natural Selection, only the smartest survive. (BTW I am aware sum of the facts may b wrong, just tell me and I will edit this.)
I declare the Great Chamber Debate <b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>OPEN</span></span></b>!
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Has a range of effect equal to Movement Chamber and Sensory Chamber<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure about this one, though I think movement chamber range is very small compared to the otheres.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regeneration heals 20 health every 2 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'fraid not, it's a percentage. Level 3 Regen will heal an onos at 50 units per beat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Speeds building time and effectiveness of nearby structures (inc. hives)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not in 2.0 or future versions AFAIK.
</artfag>
Didnt mean to **** but I just though I'd set some of the facts straight <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Theyre all good, they all have their uses, and those uses depend on what strategy you as a team want to take...
No one chamber is superior to the other in its entirety. Its possible to win now matter what chamber you put down first.
This has been argued to death, resurrected, argued right past undeath, and into the spirit realm...
Comm, we need a thread exorcist, Stat.
Edit: Good summary though.
I don't think movement speeds building time and effectiveness of nearby structures (inc. hives). During the 2.0 playtesting I think it was tried that movement chambers made offense chambers fire faster. This was taken out and as far as I know it wasn't put back in.
I'm pretty sure the passive observatory uncloaks any alien, chamber-cloaked or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I've gleaned from the forums, as well as my own experiences:
There should be no "best" chamber order. It's more balanced than it used to be.
Sensory first used to mean no really good upgrades 'till 2nd hive. You can win with sensory first now, but marines seem to be able to negate too many of the abilities with the observatory. The main argument seems to be that move and defence upgrades aren't really negated by anything, and all of their upgrades are very useful. Movement then defence, or vice versa, seems to be the order of the day. Celerity and silence seems to benefit the skulk more than the defence upgrades. I know that defence upgrades can be great for a skulk, but the movement chamber upgrades seem to do much more. Movement is also useful for later aliens in the form of adrenaline and celerity. Defence provides more for the larger aliens. Hence it is often found that the order is move, defence, sensory.
MDS or DMS is largely due to the opinion of the players. Always ask before you place that first chamber and go with the general team consensus. It doesn't really matter if you know defence is better if the rest of the team thinks move is better. This game is a team effort, and it's bad for a team to have low morale when they get a chamber they believe is inferior. That said, don't be afraid to vote for sensory first. It's only through trying new things that you will be able to determine how you win best.
Archevil: I'm sorry if I seemed to be opposing you all the way through my post. After those two corrections, I was simply stating my opinion, which at points does coincide with what you have said. So yes, I was agreeing with you where I repeated what you said. I hope I edited out the confusion.
Huntsman! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> I KNOW there is no "best" chamber order, it IS more balanced. I'm saying that you need to adapt to enemy strategies, and to suit your teams abilities and preferences. If it comes down to it, just ask your team what chamber they want. When you learn to adapt to everything that goes on; then, and only then, shall you no longer be a Natural Selection newbie, but a professional.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Theyre all good, they all have their uses, and those uses depend on what strategy you as a team want to take...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... That's what I said.
And thanks to th0r0n^ for telling me what was wrong.
"Really now... I'll try to say this from an unbiased view (Which could be true, because I don't particularly have a favorite starting chamber)
Sensory: Everyone has to admit that this IS a primarily defensive chamber. Although it has offensive priorities, what is it most often used for? Guarding/Ambushing. If you can get near the marine start without running into marines and putting a sensory there, such as a room like Laser Drilling, then you could say you've locked down one marine path early game(Considering you have actual attacking life forms accompanying the sensory). Although calling that an offensive tactic is stretching it.
Cloaking- One of the least used skills because all this does is give you what the chamber does-and the chamber does it a heck lot better. This is great for ambushes, and is probably the primary offensive trait. Unfortunately, without Scent of Fear, unless you have great sound and the marines aren't walking stealthily, you will have a hard time figuring out where to ambush someone.
Scent of Fear-Scouting intelligence that is great for setting up ambushes, which is why you need either a cloaked ally or a sensory chamber around. Or, you could do it the old fashioned way and stick to the roof and hope you won't be noticed.
Pheromones-This is like Scent of Fear, but it's not for you, it's for your friends. If there's a marine on the other side of the wall, and your friend is there too, he might see the trail left by the marine. Of course, he should hear the marine too, so this is more like a noob helper than anything else. Actually, it's pretty much useless.
Conclusion: Sensory is used to stop marine expansion. It is not used to stop marines once they are done expanding. In other words, if you let the marines lock down your hives, you didn't use the chamber right, and you're probably going to die.
Movement: The most offensive chamber. (No, I don't count Offense Chambers ) Primarily used to confuse or support.
Celerity-When marines see skulks with this, they become a little nervous. Excellent for melee combat, because it allows you to get close to marines faster, and allows you to dodge bullets easier. Very handy on gorges, provided the gorge is a reasonable distance from the marine and a corner or another haven of some sort. Also allows any alien to expand quickly early game.
Silence-The substitute for cloaking early game. This allows you to ambush marines in a different fashion, although you're much more easily detectable. However, silence strikes as much fear into marines as cloaking does, because sound is a marine's best friend. Besides Motion Tracking. Good only on skulks, but occassionally can save the gorge.
Adrenaline-If you're going to rush the marine base, this is what you're looking for. This allows you to spore spam and keep the marines holed up in their base, as well as giving gorges the ability to heal chambers nearly indefinetely. The primary use is for the spore spamming. VERY offensive early game.
Conclusion:This is the chamber for rushing. You hole them in with spores/adrenaline if they have turrets in their main base, if they don't you use celerity. If they do get out, hunt them down with silence.
Defense: Defensive chamber, who would have guessed that?
This chamber is used to hold territory and for hit-and-run tactics, although spore-and-run is more viable. Great for suicide attacks, but early game, none of these tactics are very appealing. You don't have enough territory to hold, and skulks do poorly in hit-and-run because of their low hp. Suicide is the only rushing tactic this is chamber offers.
Carapace-Put this on a a gorge and make him a tank. Gorges are quite dangerous provided they have a good aim, as two spit hits will nearly match the damage of a skulk's bite. Great on skulks for suicide rushes early game. Doesn't do much on a lerk.
Regeneration-Makes the gorge a tank yet again. Allows lerks to do spore-and-run attacks. If a skulk survives an encounter, allows him to return to front lines quickly. This trait is used to repel marines from a desired location.
Redemption-As alien's specialty is expanding, this is not a trait you would normally want early game. The only time to consider this trait is if the marines are rushing your hive-you run out, take a bite, and teleport a few feet away safely under the hive. In three seconds, you rush again, instead of having to die like nothing. Sensory chamber, however, is still more useful as marines rushing your hive is considered expanding.
Conclusion:Defense is viable on lerks for spore-and-run, and decent on gorges, however it is not highly offensive nor defensive early game, making it less of a good choice for a first chamber."
Having said this: If you want to stop marine expansion first thing in the game, go sensory. If you just want to see if you can kill em faster than they can kill you or go anywhere, or just feel like doing a spore spamming rush, use movement. Defense is a viable starting chamber but it only holds a so-so position in terms of rushing AND defending while you have hive one abilities only, and not enough res for onii. Regen fits nicely on a lerk though.
After you get your first chamber, be it movement or defense, it's usually not best to pick sensory as the second, as hive two abilities (and onii) tend to benefit MOST from movements and defense. Defense for front line self-healing, or in the case of the fade or daring carapaced onii, metabolism or a gorge can fix that up. (Redemption Onii work as well.)
Adrenaline is a must on lerks (well, celerity and silence occassionally works too, but you're a support unit, so use adrenaline to help you do your job, support <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Sensory's use in mid game is limited because of the commander's ability to now put more observatories down. However, Scent of Fear goes quite justifiably on the fade, who is the ideal hit-and-run kharaa, and great on skulks (skulks can set ambushes nearly anywhere). Lerks also can detect oncoming marines and either spore the hallways before the marines make a turn or umbra himself and prepare to roll.
Last chamber, well, I don't have to get into that, do I? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you think about it, if you have 3 D or M chambers before the second hive... why didnt you save 5 more res for the hive? the time saved building the hive first can be a life saver! Skulks can just use leap instead of getting cerelity. Lerks can umbra, thus increasing the life of all aliens, Fades get metabolize, and it is like getting Regen for free, and onos gets stomp... and i know how much noobish onos love stomp + devour. not to mention the most devestating thing... BILEBOMB! With bilebomb i can take out many marine strongholds by myself most of the time(vents are my friend ^_^)
Also consider the time it takes to build a hive compared to building 3 chambers. i could fire 3 off bing bang boom they are up and running in under a minute, the hive takes much longer. If my team is getting whooped, ususally one of the skulks saving for onos gorges and drops 3 of whatever he deems nessesary at the moment (it IS his res....)
If i DO drop chambers before the second hive it is almost ALWAYS movement first, it's upgrades are just to awsome for EVERYTHING barring onos. I dont need Defense because i love to battle gorge, i am often inside a huge **** fight healing the biggest lifeform we have then running out a few seconds before the big guy lumbers out (rines are always to busy to notice little ole me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) By the time i die or am done fighting, i have enough res for more stuff!
Of course using that same strat over and over gets boring, another strat i like to use involves me going with the rushing team as gorge, building a sensory outside theiir base with O chambers scattered around the perimiter. the skulks outside the base are cloaked, and just tear the rines apart if they leave (getting more RFK for us and less for them). I also am right outside the base cloaked, so i can heal at a moments notice. Depending upon the map and my sensory placement, i have had skulks sneak in cloaked to nearly the IPs to kill marines.
All of that causes the marines to do one (or a couple) of several things:
1.) they build an observatory, res gone that could have went to nodes
2.) they build TF + turrets to turtle, then get siege to take out my chambers so they can LEAVE the base
3.) Get frustraighted and often rambo in suicide runs into my chambers/teammates to try and take them out
4.) Drop Shotties, but even with them, a cloaked skulk in the right place can take out 2-3 marines with shotties
i would say 3 times out of 10 using this strat my base does NOT get razed outside thiers, thus there is a 3 outta 10 chance that the remaining gorges are all by their lonely selfs building res nodes and hives. With the right combination of skilled skulks and good chamber placement the rines really lose out at the beginning of the round, even in the best possible senerio (sp?) going for them. Yes this is easily countered with scans and shottie rushes...but what kind of pub commander is going to do THAT for his marines? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Usually if there is someone willing i ask for a lerk, not only for the spores to harrase marines in their base, but to counter the enevitable shottie rush.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
agree with all of it, but on the upper quote u forget to mention that dc's are fades and oni best friend, regen makes them more of a tank then a hit n run race ;p
My favourite is MDS, basicly becuz the hive can heal but celerity can kill and who needs to cloak when u can run anyway >:] <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Movement - The BEST skulk chamber. Cara is no longer the super upgrade it once was, and has been nerfed to the EXTREME. Celerity on the other hand, hehe poor rines <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Defense - The BEST onos chamber. At second hive, you're guaranteed to have some onos around, and they'll want DCs, bad. There are some other advantages over sensory, but onos are just nothing w/o dcs.
Sensory - Uh ya. Do w/e you usually do with it, although if you have 3 hives, gg rines.
Maps with alien friendly terrain (maps with claustrophobic little corridors and lots of ladders and railings and different altitudes, i.e. mineshaft, nothing, perhaps caged etc):
SDM:
With 2.01d, the cloak upgrade is pretty powerful. On pubs, where most comms cant be bothered to scan constantly, it takes care of those rines very well. This is a MUST HAVE on mineshaft.
hey, someone used my word
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=44408' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=21&t=44408</a>
personally, i use whatever my team agrees on for whichever reasons they agree on
the thing is
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='color:red'>ALL THE CHAMBERS ARE EQUAL</span></span></span>
except for thier use, and the ability of the players to utilize thier use
ALL CHAMBERS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.
^^ How true...
Come to any South-East Asian server any day (PAGN, Singnet, Beta) and see d chambers used first in every single game.
Despite the incredible lag, I've started to play on American servers lately because of the fact that most players there have a more flexible mindset.
[/rant]
BACK ON TOPIC
I must say that the dev team has done a good job in making each chamber viable. However, I must say that the DMS/MDS is incredibly useful in the long run if the marines manage to lock down a hive. (This will be fixed in 2.0 with the implementation of light damage).
I rarely see teamwork on those servers....EVER*coughsingnetcough*
And light damage is already implemented in 2.01d beta
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to heavy armor and Oni.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for chambers....I go with whatever the team says,but if I feel like being evil I drop an MC and wait for the whining....
If you don't go sensory first, it goes third.
You should try to convince your entire alien team to take redemption as skulks. Provided you know what you're doing, its incredibly annoying to the marine team.
And i can either he is the worlds <span style='color:white'>Language Please</span> lerk or he has never lerked before.
If you are playing against good players, on a small map, SC is definately the best choice, especially on large games. The advantage of SC is very strong on a small map because it is easy to cover all area's in stealth, which can make any marine expansion completely impossable, the downside is it limits your offensive ability a lot early game. On large maps, SC has little use beyond guarding the occasionnal OC wall, prime combat area's and hive's.
MC would be my personal favourite, as every class can use any of its upgrades,
1st is silence, then celerity, then adrenaline
Skulk: the ultimate low cost hunter, a great troops in general combat, great at finishing off a base or an RT
Gorge: Useful for an escape, good in cobat and they can run away if needed, unlimited heal spray and strong bile bomber a very good upgrade if you have backup
Lerk: Can gas marines in silence and hard to lock down, fasst as hell good shock troop, gas r us
Fade: Great hunter, good when you get in close to swipe, blink in kill all blink out.
Onos: Very funny and surprisingly strong too, the ultimate hit and run, base cruncher and a very long charge with 3hives up.
MC's under the hive will also increase spawn rate, which is very useful early game when the fighting is fierce for territory, and in large games where theres a constant spawn que.
DC is almost compulsary as a 2nd upgrade, if marines take one of your hives, if you only have SC and MC, attacking is VERY hard without regen or forward healing posts, and it also has very powerful upgrades.
and the chamber itself doing little means you dont need 100res to put enough of this chamber to gain full benefit (like you do with SC),
I like having 3 D chambers right away, so I can go fade without the need of a second hive and can still heal with regen. Once the second hive is up, I like movement so I can get celerity so it's easier to catch up to marines that are next to me, and it speeds up blink. I still keep regen, because with regen and celerity marines have a very hard time hitting a good Fade who is blinking every which way - rarely does my health drop below 100 against a group of marines. Regen Celerity Fades rock.
Movement and Sensory compliment Defense in a variety of ways so you can mix and match them any way you like. But Defense is your meat and potatoes. By the middle of the game if you don't have Defense, the marines will take their pretty little time killing you with little effort.
I rarely see teamwork on those servers....EVER*coughsingnetcough*
And light damage is already implemented in 2.01d beta
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to heavy armor and Oni.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for chambers....I go with whatever the team says,but if I feel like being evil I drop an MC and wait for the whining.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, everyone SHOULD be happy with Movement.
I like having 3 D chambers right away, so I can go fade without the need of a second hive and can still heal with regen. Once the second hive is up, I like movement so I can get celerity so it's easier to catch up to marines that are next to me, and it speeds up blink. I still keep regen, because with regen and celerity marines have a very hard time hitting a good Fade who is blinking every which way - rarely does my health drop below 100 against a group of marines. Regen Celerity Fades rock. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yay, yet another person who doesn't like dropping things for his team *sighs*
Good thing I haven't seen you on my server.
Movment compliments the 3 cheapest evolutions, and makes Oc's fire faster (im pretty sure this is still implimented....)
Skulks - Clerity or silence
You can shorten distance faster, or wait for them to run past and bite there arses.
Gorges - Adrenalin or clerity
What could help a gorge support his team more then having an almost unlimited heal spray
Or if you like to battle gorge, You can retreat and fire with decent results.
Lurks - adrenalin or silence or clerity
Adrenalin - its obvious, early spore fields to keep the marines fixed on that vent instead of the skulk with silence running for there toes.
Silence - You can spike down those marines without there team mates even knowing hes dieing. Not to mention you can fly above there heads and they wont even know it, just screaming 'spore us please!'
Clerity - I havent tryed this myself, but many lurk 'tutorials' say clerity actualy makes lurk harder to manuver, but once you get it it gives each wing flap more push power, and that can help dodge lmg fire as you do drive bys with spikes.
At second hive you grab defence chambers, specificaly so the higher up evolutions can last longer, If your getting fades and onos BEFOR hive 2, they should have droped a hive instead of risking that 50 res investment for a skulk with blink. And since you already have movments, suddenly your Defence chambers are pumping out health alot faster! Movment and Defence compliment eachother perfectly. I dont see any reason to drop SC accept maybe for SOF. But if your skulks do there jobs right parasite will work just as good.
Good thing I haven't seen you on my server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--the first line in the thread+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the first line in the thread)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Every1 (who can b bothered) posts wat chamber they like most <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I posted which chambers I like most, and why. Where do you get the idea that I don't work with the team?
If the team will benefit most from dropping sensory, I'll drop sensory.
If the team will benefit most from dropping movement, I'll drop movement.
From my experience, Defense has been the most beneficial, and the reason why it has been the most beneficial is because I (and one other person, teams consist of 6 we usually have 4 people gorge and 2 for defensive/offensive) can go fade and get regeneration and usually not die. As fade, with the help of the gorges, we're capable of taking out the marine base and acheiving victory. Isn't the point of the game to win?
I'm not talking about public servers, I'm talking about clan matches where everyone knows their part.
In pubs I still tend to go with defense chambers first, but if someone wants something else I'm all for it.
DCs and MCs are both good starters so I just ask what people want... either way it's still fun. SCs can be a giggle too but it makes for a harder earned victory thanks to the super amazing uber ob with scans and MT, though if the comm isn't up to speed it tends to be a very calm 3 hive victory by the end of it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
course, only one person has mentioned the other option and that's to save your res by not make a 'first' chamber and using them instead to go grab the 2nd hive =D
Yea that gets me thinking abit more about my choices..
You could go straght for the second hive IF your skulks are already kicking marine booty.
If there doing average, id drop out a MC to boost the kill rates..
If there doing poorly.. Definatly Dc's, nothing worse then being pinned to 1 hive and your onos and fades only have movment upgrades to push the enemy back..
I try to make most of my strategys dynamic like this, especialy since im stuck playing pub servers <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Id love to get into a clan to do some organised games.
If their commander doesn't seem too up on the whole observatory thing, and especially if he's locked down the third hive without an obs in it, sensory is the way to go. By midgame you're bringing in resources quickly enough to lay down a reasonable sensory network, and nothing beats sneaking the third hive up while the marines still think they have it locked down. It's just a laugh.
Otherwise, I'll generally go movement, as silence is nearly as good for sneaking around and building chambers without marines getting curious about the glug-glug sounds, and it also makes your fades and lerks love you.
Good thing I haven't seen you on my server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--the first line in the thread+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the first line in the thread)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Every1 (who can b bothered) posts wat chamber they like most <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I posted which chambers I like most, and why. Where do you get the idea that I don't work with the team?
If the team will benefit most from dropping sensory, I'll drop sensory.
If the team will benefit most from dropping movement, I'll drop movement.
From my experience, Defense has been the most beneficial, and the reason why it has been the most beneficial is because I (and one other person, teams consist of 6 we usually have 4 people gorge and 2 for defensive/offensive) can go fade and get regeneration and usually not die. As fade, with the help of the gorges, we're capable of taking out the marine base and acheiving victory. Isn't the point of the game to win?
I'm not talking about public servers, I'm talking about clan matches where everyone knows their part.
In pubs I still tend to go with defense chambers first, but if someone wants something else I'm all for it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm speaking of people who go early fade instead of dropping things for their team, not your build order.
Precisely.
I'm trying to figure out why Sense has gone back down to 1.04 status as the last chamber. The only argument I've heard is that's useless because marines can just scan and see what was cloaked. This is a poor argument because in the early game few marine teams have Obs right away and, besides that, it has to build up energy before it can scan. Furthermore, what comm would respond to a marine saying something to the effect of, "Um, comm can you ping such'n'such room...I think I heard a skulk muckin' about." Even furthermore, what marine uses his ears? It seems like every game I play I am the only one aware of aliens before they appear because I recognize their movement sounds.
So what I say is this: sensory is just as effective as Movement or Defense because cloaking is just as effective as celerity/carapace/silence when used effectively. It has an even greater use in cloaking rooms full of OCs and confuses inexperienced marines who would say "No RT in here." without even noting that there's no puffy nano smoke coming from the vent. So I say we start standing up to the jerks who call sense the "noob" tower to begin with.