Onos Hitbox

LoRDxDeMoN · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">and some pictas</div> we all know it was fux0rd in 1.0x, some of us thought it was fixed in 2.0x

long story short, i once said i thought the onos hitbox was that of a (or similar to that of a) one Gordon Freeman. people said that i was wrong, and posted pictures from HLMV to show the "real" onos hitboxes

sure, that was fine. however, as i found out, the onos hitboxes are really much smaller than its model

before you condemn me crazy, take a look at some of these screenshots

first, here is the original (edited to remove names/chat) screenshot of an onos in Central Processing (ns_caged): <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/onos/ns_caged0002.jpg' target='_blank'>ns_caged0002.jpg</a>

here is a smaller version of that same shot: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/onos/onos1.jpg' target='_blank'>onos1.jpg</a>

after i took that screenshot, i shot the onos from its arse to its head, while trying to keep the gun centered;
as many of you know, NS shows lots of purty green blood whenever an alien form/structure is shot

here are the results of those shots, after mr. onos has moved out of my way: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/onos/onos2.jpg' target='_blank'>onos2</a>

as you can see (hopefully, some of that shot is pretty dark), the registered hits and the bullet marks show where damage has been done

here's a modified version of the first picture, this time including a pretty red box around the area (NOTE: height hasn't been tested, hence it's irrelevant) of the approximate side hitbox of the onos: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/onos/onos3.jpg' target='_blank'>onos3.jpg</a>

and just to spice things up, here's a shot from HLMV: <a href='http://home.beld.net/~kamil/images/NS/onos/onosHLMV.jpg' target='_blank'>onosHLMV.jpg</a>

which also shows that while HLMV shows a nice outline, those hitboxes in no way represent the "hit" boxes

just something i was bothered by for a little while; hopefully it'll clear some confusion about this issue. which also brings me to another point:

best way to kill an onos is to shoot it in the arse, from behind <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

MrMojo · August 2003

It's good to get behind it either way.

Memran · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Aug 29 2003, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It's good to get behind it either way.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No comment <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

FrickenMoron · August 2003

Does this still apply for the skulk too?

Tryon · August 2003

Very interesting demonstration of the Onos hitbox. I like the way you displayed exactly where the damage was being dealt with respect to the enemy.

Do you think you could do the same thing for the other views on the Onos? Nine times out of ten, when an onos gets shot, it'll turn towards the attacker. Being able to see how <i>wide</i> the hitbox is would definatly help out so that players know where to shoot (not to mention showing if the onos has an advantage in how it's hitbox is configured).

Thanks again for taking the time to do these tests. I'm sure that people would love to see the true hitbox of the most powerful alien morph.

AjaxFisk · August 2003

Will the hit-box be the same for all Onos skins.
As, am using the ultralisk Onos skin.

MrKNifey · August 2003

So THATs why I never hit the onos anymore........

Oh yeah, ultralisk model still uses onos hitboxes.....I think. So yeah, this probably does apply.

Cheez1 · August 2003

Seems that in 2.0 only two things were fixed regarding hitboxes.

1) Marines are no longer un-attackable if ducking in a vent or on a ladder
2) Skulks can actualy bite above and below them

Onos and fades a little odd. I remeber once, as a fade, I was standing behind an arms lab slashing it and a marine came and shot at me from the other side. Oddly enough he missed entirely even though the bullets went right through me...he then said i was h4xing lmao.

Sarisel · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Aug 29 2003, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Seems that in 2.0 only two things were fixed regarding hitboxes.

1) Marines are no longer un-attackable if ducking in a vent or on a ladder
2) Skulks can actualy bite above and below them

Onos and fades a little odd. I remeber once, as a fade, I was standing behind an arms lab slashing it and a marine came and shot at me from the other side. Oddly enough he missed entirely even though the bullets went right through me...he then said i was h4xing lmao.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
As a fade, you can 'hide' between buildings so that your hitboxes are concealed by them. That way you take little to no damage. Very useful if a turret farm has the turret factory righe next to a resource tower.

Vri · August 2003

I try not to think about it too much, Ive seen so many instances where an onos who had regeneration would run into some corner in the next room while marines start to chase it, only to use up half of their ammo on the "invinsible" head sticking out, then they get closer to actualy hit it only to get gored... lolz, it looks so retarded when the onos just sits there getting shot at and knows hes not getting hit while using regen, such a great game with such a huge flaw, my suggestion is, dont think about it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>, unless ofcourse ppl nag enough to have it changed.. I probably just jinxed that from happening, oh well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>.

Rat · August 2003

shooting an onos is like shooting a fade is like shooting a gorge is like shooting a skulk is like shooting a normal body:

always aim center mass. if you shoot for the middle, which gives you the greatest percentage of hitting anyways, from any angle, you'll do more damage than if you aim at one end or another.

SimonS · August 2003

That sucks,But I still get blood out of the sucker when I shoot an Onos, So does that mean I'm not damaging him? Even though blood is coming out.

RyoOhki · August 2003

I really wish this would change. It's quite annoying to still have to deal with bugged or very small hitboxes. But by the same token I get the impression that if Flay could have fixed them, he would have, which leads me to believe that perhaps this can never be resolved.

Sarisel · August 2003

My question is... why does Half-Life Model Viewer <b>lie</b> about the hitboxes?

Onkel_Dittmeyer · August 2003

Hitboxes on models don't apply to players in this case due to a limitation of the Half-Life/Quake engine that is. They do apply to NPC's but players have a maximum of 3 collision/hit hulls. Everything out of these hulls (which are roughly cuboids in the geometry of a human) is not registered as a hit. So it's technically impossible to fix it so far. I know someone mentioned a mod where it is possible to shoot someone between the legs and don't hit him: You can tell that it didn't hit but not that it hit if the model is bigger than the the biggest hull. Would be a bit difficult to explain without coding knowledge and experience with the sdk.

Vri · August 2003

Edit: replied while I was typin, deleted previouse stuff*

Sorry Onkel but your explanation has me completely lost... is it something along the lines of, the hit box cant be larger than the model (I doubt) or the cube can only grow in equal diameter on all sides so if it grows too big some part of the hit box may be sticking out of the model?.. I need a little help here <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

LoRDxDeMoN · August 2003

well, i also did height tests with that same onos ( <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> ), but the height is pretty dead-on (disregard the head, as it never gets hit anyway);

as for width (frontview), it's pretty much as wide as the width of the length (sideview), simply much easier to center (since the model is symmetric).

(argh... i hate the spelling of those words, strength, height, width, length... sooo annoying)

MMZ_Torak · August 2003

Try <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=39177&hl=' target='_blank'>this</a> thread. There is a good pic on the first page that can help explain it, even tho much of what they are talking about is supposed to be fixed in 2.0.

snozzle · August 2003

try testing with mp_drawdamage on. youd be surprised on where the onos takes more damage. When we playtested we had mp_drawdamage on sometimes and if you shot an onos on top of it, ie its "back" then it takes more damage than any other area pointblank.

Windelkron · August 2003

yeah; everyone says "dude it only takes 30 HMG shots to kill an onos" or something like that, when in reality it's nothing like that because none of your shots are hitting. Oh, and try hitting an onos with a grenade :|

Come to think of it, that's probably why gorges and lerks are also NEVER dying to my shots ... I'm just not aiming at the right imaginary hitbox. I kill fades fine.

Warfare · August 2003

This does explain alot of the quoting from Resident Evil: "I got it XX times. How was it still standing?"

And from the guy behind with the shotgun: "**** isn't standing now..."

There are times I swear I hit that skulk, and I also noticed how terrible people are at hitting me the few times I play an Onos.

Gorges, however. They're the easiest to hit of all.

kavasa · August 2003

Shoot the udders.

Onkel_Dittmeyer · August 2003

Ok I'll try to explain the thing a bit more detailed:
The Half-Life engine has a _very_ basic traceline* detection what concerns the player (also on NPCs but they can be traceline-ed correctly with hitboxes on their models). 3 different sized hulls exist for a player - standard is standing, crouched and point size (0). This is also used for collision detection but that's another story. So you have only hits registrated within these 2 possible hulls which is the rough part of the process. The second is to determinate the more exactly hit position with the hitboxes of the according model. So now you got the problem with the onos - the model is bigger than the standing player tracehull is. Hence no shots will be registered on the outern part of the model as it lies out of the tracehull.
Now let's look at the skulk, why isn't he hit when you aim high above him - the tracehull has after all the size of a standing player!? There comes the second part: The model doesnt have hitboxes there, so no damage is applied at all.
Conclusio: Everything in the tracehull CAN be registered as a hit if the hitboxes are implemented but NOTHING outside the tracehull can be registered as a hit.
* a traceline is a line, in this case traced from the player's aiming vector to the next entity in front of him
This is used in the SDK when a weapon is fired

Rat · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (snozzle @ Aug 29 2003, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> try testing with mp_drawdamage on. youd be surprised on where the onos takes more damage. When we playtested we had mp_drawdamage on sometimes and if you shot an onos on top of it, ie its "back" then it takes more damage than any other area pointblank.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
which makes sense, because the top of that rectangle would be the head area of any human shaped model based on the gordon-freeman HL model. Head hitboxes usually come with hefty damage multipliers.

Catpoker · August 2003

so that is why the onos is hard to kill....

maybe thats why it owns so much....

Necrosis · August 2003

But NS apparently doesnt have location based damage. So no headshots.

Anyhow............

I'm new, and I noticed the hitboxy stuff fairly fast. Now I know where to shoot aliens, and that the trick is always to be in front or behind.

Maus · August 2003

And people think my biped onos replacement model is a silly idea <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

RotA_Plague · August 2003

The issue here is not hitboxes, they are fine. The issue is bounding boxes. Your bounding box is what stops the bullet from passing through you(I believe the bounding has to be hit for the hitbox to record it). It also is how big your character is. Sadly bounding boxes aren't really made to be changed in HL.

SinSpawn · August 2003

Wow ya learn new thinds everyday <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>, I'll remember if I face the onos form the side, I'll shoot it in the tummy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

taboofires · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Aug 29 2003, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Seems that in 2.0 only two things were fixed regarding hitboxes.

1) Marines are no longer un-attackable if ducking in a vent or on a ladder
2) Skulks can actualy bite above and below them

Onos and fades a little odd. I remeber once, as a fade, I was standing behind an arms lab slashing it and a marine came and shot at me from the other side. Oddly enough he missed entirely even though the bullets went right through me...he then said i was h4xing lmao. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
As long as people are no longer invincible, that's good enough for now. Massive improvement.

edit: All of the hitable areas are rectangular like that. It's rather annoying. Fades and onos have the same areas as a standing marine.

lazygamer · August 2003

Ok the thing is, the hitbox problem can't be that significant. The reason is, Onos die plenty in NS 2.0. Think of this small human sized target area on the Onos. Most people don't know about hit detection problems, and of those that have heard of it, alot of them would forget in the heat of battle. Now when aiming at the Onos from the side, most people just let loose a spray of bullets, making sure to keep the Onos properly targeted. Since the Onos is moving, most of the shots would be spread out on the Onos, outside of the valid hit area(even when it's standing still heat of battle means emptying the gun into the Onos, not calmy remembering a hit detection issue).

These are terrible anti-onos odds, so most of the player population should be complaining about Onoses that rarely go down, and how unattaching evolutions from hives has severely unbalanced the game. This does not happen, those Onos are constantly going down(or redeeming, doesn't matter), so there be must be some explanation.

Onos Hitbox

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