Mod theories
<div class="IPBDescription">Add your own!</div>BUTTHEAD:Heh Heh hey Beavis, we need a mod.
BEAVIS:Huh huh yeah, a mod that r0x0rs.
BEAVIS:Ya, one that has 1337 d00dz in ski masks.
/smacks beavis
BEAVIS:ARGH!
BUTTHEAD:No #######! That has been done like so many times before.
BEAVIS:Buttmunch, show me one CS-like half-life mod that was actually released in beta.
BUTTHEAD:Uhhhhh, well...
BEAVIS:Heh heh cuz like there was none, cuz CS-wannabe mods are only a myth, they don't actually exsist.
BUTTHEAD:Uhhh you mean like a ph33r tactic to prevent people from making one...
Errr nice introduction, anyways the point of this thread is to consider what could make a truly unique and awesome mod.
Ok that's vague alright, my principles.
1:Unique to Half-life mods and possibly games in general.
2:Plenty of violence, none of that boring whacked out "original ideas". Original doesn't mean no PvP.
3:The mod meticulously(sp) blends fine tuned, hardcore deathmatching machines, and methodical, strategic, camping, laid back, poor reflex strategists. It doesn't allow either style of play to truly rule the other. You either strategize or deathmatch, use your calling to give you the best performance. Or perhaps your calling is neither and you learn to straddle the fence.
4:There is no ##### weapons because each weapon vastly excels in one special way compared to the other weapons. A weapon is only unbalanced when it doesn't suit the player, thus if a weapon seems "underpowered", your not suited for the weapon and should try another one.
5:Teamplay is encouraged, and there is some built in teamplay HUD things to make it easier. However, unline NS marines, a player can still rock without teamwork. What players will find though is that they simply become much more powerful in mobs, thus the concept of sticking together to further personal goals is introduced.
6:NO REAL-LIFE WEAPONS(doesn't mean no guns or violent, destructive stuff. Just no m16's or glocks) OR SITUATIONS! Im imagining the mod as feeling abstract somehow or a vaccuum reality. What is vaccuum reality? It means the setting of the game is realistic and normal only to those inside the game. To the real-life players it is not. No, CS is not vaccuum reality. Just because it's not like GR or OFP realism doesn't make it vaccuum reality. Now you ever heard of Water Wars for Half-life? That's an example of vaccuum reality.
BEAVIS:Huh huh yeah, a mod that r0x0rs.
BEAVIS:Ya, one that has 1337 d00dz in ski masks.
/smacks beavis
BEAVIS:ARGH!
BUTTHEAD:No #######! That has been done like so many times before.
BEAVIS:Buttmunch, show me one CS-like half-life mod that was actually released in beta.
BUTTHEAD:Uhhhhh, well...
BEAVIS:Heh heh cuz like there was none, cuz CS-wannabe mods are only a myth, they don't actually exsist.
BUTTHEAD:Uhhh you mean like a ph33r tactic to prevent people from making one...
Errr nice introduction, anyways the point of this thread is to consider what could make a truly unique and awesome mod.
Ok that's vague alright, my principles.
1:Unique to Half-life mods and possibly games in general.
2:Plenty of violence, none of that boring whacked out "original ideas". Original doesn't mean no PvP.
3:The mod meticulously(sp) blends fine tuned, hardcore deathmatching machines, and methodical, strategic, camping, laid back, poor reflex strategists. It doesn't allow either style of play to truly rule the other. You either strategize or deathmatch, use your calling to give you the best performance. Or perhaps your calling is neither and you learn to straddle the fence.
4:There is no ##### weapons because each weapon vastly excels in one special way compared to the other weapons. A weapon is only unbalanced when it doesn't suit the player, thus if a weapon seems "underpowered", your not suited for the weapon and should try another one.
5:Teamplay is encouraged, and there is some built in teamplay HUD things to make it easier. However, unline NS marines, a player can still rock without teamwork. What players will find though is that they simply become much more powerful in mobs, thus the concept of sticking together to further personal goals is introduced.
6:NO REAL-LIFE WEAPONS(doesn't mean no guns or violent, destructive stuff. Just no m16's or glocks) OR SITUATIONS! Im imagining the mod as feeling abstract somehow or a vaccuum reality. What is vaccuum reality? It means the setting of the game is realistic and normal only to those inside the game. To the real-life players it is not. No, CS is not vaccuum reality. Just because it's not like GR or OFP realism doesn't make it vaccuum reality. Now you ever heard of Water Wars for Half-life? That's an example of vaccuum reality.
Comments
I don't actually think that MODs need to be original. There will always be players who are looking for that same experience, and as long as it is done well, it does not matter if the idea is amazingly original or not. For instance, there were quite a few WW2 mods out before DoD, but because DoD was the one that was polished and nicely coded, it succeeded.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->2:Plenty of violence, none of that boring whacked out "original ideas". Original doesn't mean no PvP.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No no no! I believe you can have a fun mod that does not even include weapons. In fact, to prove this, I have already started making one, and it is fun. The only reason violent mods succeed is that the general gaming public seems to have a gun fetish.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->3:The mod meticulously(sp) blends fine tuned, hardcore deathmatching machines, and methodical, strategic, camping, laid back, poor reflex strategists. It doesn't allow either style of play to truly rule the other. You either strategize or deathmatch, use your calling to give you the best performance. Or perhaps your calling is neither and you learn to straddle the fence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be describing every game in the world, either total strategy, total deathmatch, or a mix of the two.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->4:There is no ##### weapons because each weapon vastly excels in one special way compared to the other weapons. A weapon is only unbalanced when it doesn't suit the player, thus if a weapon seems "underpowered", your not suited for the weapon and should try another one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isnt so much a Mod theory, as common sense. Most mod developers are not stupid, they will not unbalance weapons because it is fun to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->5:Teamplay is encouraged, and there is some built in teamplay HUD things to make it easier. However, unline NS marines, a player can still rock without teamwork. What players will find though is that they simply become much more powerful in mobs, thus the concept of sticking together to further personal goals is introduced.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Common sense. 'Two heads are better than one' comes to mind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->6:NO REAL-LIFE WEAPONS(doesn't mean no guns or violent, destructive stuff. Just no m16's or glocks) OR SITUATIONS! Im imagining the mod as feeling abstract somehow or a vaccuum reality. What is vaccuum reality? It means the setting of the game is realistic and normal only to those inside the game. To the real-life players it is not. No, CS is not vaccuum reality. Just because it's not like GR or OFP realism doesn't make it vaccuum reality. Now you ever heard of Water Wars for Half-life? That's an example of vaccuum reality.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Realism mods are far too overrated. There is no way you can fully define your vision when you are also bound to the real world. Break away, do your own thing. Most of all, have fun with what you are making or playing! If you cannot have fun, there is no reason for you to continue, not for 'skills', not for 'commitments', especially not for boredom.
Oh, and I wished you had picked an example mod that wasnt Water Wars. I for one am definately not a fan, and for specific reasons too. Monkey Strike, Half-Life Rally and NS seem to be great examples of ideas well done.
Gameplay: Squad-based teamplay, with deathmatch/ffa available.
Theme: Large, powerful machines. Robots, if you will. I was thinking kind of hybrid Total Annihilation K-Bots, designed for smaller-scale combat (i'll refer to them as mechs for convenience, but think much more versatile than the battlemechs of Mechwarrior). eg: battling through dense cities & jungle. This lends itself to some sort of storyline too.
Gameplay: Choose a side, choose a mech, each has variable degrees of armor, weapons, radar and visual enhancements available. Equip your mech by selecting from a list of different upgrades and weapons systems that use the equipment slots available to you. Be aware that larger/more complex systems will weigh you down and cause other systems to become unavailable. When you are kitted out join the fray.
I should re-write my design doc for this one. I did have a *gasp* realistic weapon mod planned, but the weapons were the only realism <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Heh, Jedisar had a very similar concept to this. You may like to have a word with him sometime. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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I don't actually think that MODs need to be original. There will always be players who are looking for that same experience, and as long as it is done well, it does not matter if the idea is amazingly original or not. For instance, there were quite a few WW2 mods out before DoD, but because DoD was the one that was polished and nicely coded, it succeeded.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally true, but original is interesting.
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No no no! I believe you can have a fun mod that does not even include weapons. In fact, to prove this, I have already started making one, and it is fun. The only reason violent mods succeed is that the general gaming public seems to have a gun fetish.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BUT GUNS ROCK! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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You seem to be describing every game in the world, either total strategy, total deathmatch, or a mix of the two.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, I suppose. Think of this. Imagine playing Counter-strike a semi-realistic mod. You(not everyone, just some players) always seem to get broiled in gun battles. The only way you ever seem to be able to kill someone is by just happening to be behind him and firing alot of shots into his back. It doesn't matter how good your tactics are, there is a tremendous amount of skill in simply killing someone and avoiding being kiled during a CS gunfight. Obviously it seems that CS is more inclined to the "hardcore warrior" mentality in the end(even though it's not Quake). You can't get much strategy in without having this killing ability first.
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This isnt so much a Mod theory, as common sense. Most mod developers are not stupid, they will not unbalance weapons because it is fun to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! Try telling that to mod developers. Even notice how some mods must constantly tweak weapons? They don't do it on purpose, my guess is that the over abscence or under abscence of realism to the is the main reason. My concept is to say "screw realistic proportioning, each weapon should be very special in it's own way". Realistic styled mods still have weapons which are unique compared to the other weapons in the game, but not quite...
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Common sense. 'Two heads are better than one' comes to mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Common sense that isn't too common. My guess is that you can still own in most mods without any help. The key is to have something that you still do great without help, but it's virtually impossible to totally rock the server alone.
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Oh, and I wished you had picked an example mod that wasnt Water Wars. I for one am definately not a fan, and for specific reasons too. Monkey Strike, Half-Life Rally and NS seem to be great examples of ideas well done.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok well my concept of vacuum realism is hard to explain. So NS and HL rally woulden't count, Water wars and Monkey Strike would count. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Oh come on, Water Wars will r0x0r. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Ok I should add something here. The point of this thread is both your concepts, and to take these l33t concepts I listed here and make a well fleshed out mod idea with it. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
It's the same way with NightWatch, a SP episode I'm working on right now. A good chunk of the arsenal is real weapons, but the damage and effects of the weapons aren't realistic at all. Real weapons can, in the right settings, establish the surroundings and general locale of things without actually being 'realism.' Same with multiplayer mods.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and I wished you had picked an example mod that wasnt Water Wars. I for one am definately not a fan, and for specific reasons too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. There's a reason I got out of there when I could.
The only thing I need is fun; this is extremely vague so I shall elaborate further; For me there must be a clear winner and a clear loser. If I’m playing a teamplay game it may be the team with the most flag captures who wins. If it's a deathmatch game, my name slapped at firmly at the top of the scoreboard is a win. I can have fun losing, but a clear objective is needed, in addition to this, to "win" the game, be it by myself or with a team, it must take skill, none of this "point and click" or "roll the die and see how much damage he took" tosh.
CS (merely an example) for me takes little skill, I point a gun, hold fire for a few seconds and watch the top right of the screen to see when he dies and whether the random recoil gave me a headshot, wow, so hard, whereas in TFC/Q3A, I can bounce of 5 walls with the rocket launcher, flip over somebody’s head as he helplessly fires plasma bullets miles wide with pinpoint accuracy, score a headshot in mid-flight with the railgun and switch to the shotgun by the time I land to finish him off if he survived... ok, I can’t, I suck, and in a way that is my point, there is a much more varied scale of good players and bad players.
Objective and skill, that is all I ask.
I'm a big fan of action movies, and I think a mod based on style, in anything, would rock!
Or maybe I need to go to bed.
Hee hee. He is silly though, aint he. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I jumped for joy at Poke646 (sadly, I completed it in but a few hours). It wasn't totally original, but it was good fun nonetheless.
Realistic weapons aren't always fun... realism can only go so far in a game anyway. In Half-Life I couldn't help but notice the odd reload system - you don't have seperate clips (for, say, the mp5) but you have a 'pool' of bullets which you reload from. For some reason I felt this was really wierd.
I like a <i>bit</i> of realism (like, say, gravity) but that's all.
You and some buddies are teleported to the ghey pokemon world. You realize the horror of what has occured but soon adapt(after all, you must be hallucinating right?). Starting out with simple melee implements(weapons get better later on...) you must slaughter all these wild pokemon left and right. As you progress you get to assault a few cities and gib some of those retard poke-world humans. Half-way through the game, you find a way back to earth(and realize it's not a dream!<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->, but decide to return to finish the job. After assaulting an earth military base(very hard part of the game), you steal l33t military weapons and return to wreak horrid havoc!
The game gets even more wierd though, as you discover the pokemon world is actually in an alternate dimension. The pokemon craze is really a brilliant tool to brainwash everyone so people from this alternate dimension can possess the brainwashed kids and teens. Then they can band together and create a reliable dimension portal and the pokemon can cross. Then the alternate dimension people can prove to the world that pokemon is real and are gods(well they are not actually)! This will shock everyone and after displaying some awesome powers, convert a mass amount of people to worship them! It would work, cuz how can a video game turn into a real-life anomoly(sp) that defies logic and such! After gettings followers the evil pokemon dudes would conquer earth!
Lol funny plot, well anyways you and your buddies can't allow this totally retarded fate to befall earth and must save the day! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
look at hlrally <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--> its not a violent mod and its really popular