<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerks behind boxes u get 3 rines to stand on each other and that guy gets owned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or more likely, the lerk spores the lot of them and gets three amusing kills.
Most Hera games I've played when the COMM didn't relocate usually results in 3-4 lerks spamming spores and spiking the marines from the outside area. Then you get a few marines who <i>never</i> leave marine start because they're too busy trying to kill the lerks. Hera is prolly the only map where it is practically manditory to relocate. As pretty as it is I think that the marine start could use some changes.
I do like the upper catwalk in marine start though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hera is prolly the only map where it is practically manditory to relocate<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think hera's the only map that fits that catagory.
I agree with the guy who pointed out that the vent in bast's marine start is a death trap. I also agree that the airlock is no different - as aliens seem to always be waiting on the other side - preventing the only semi-safe relocation (atmospheric being way too risky especially if the aliens have feedwater).
Now, I really do like bast if the marines can get some sort of a foothold as the map looks and feels great, but maybe the marines need more breathing room - maybe push engine room and feedwater back a little bit. Otherwise aliens can just rush in much too quickly 2/3 of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Merkaba+Aug 27 2003, 07:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Aug 27 2003, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I apologise for these problems with the map, I personally put it down to the fact that I actually played very little NS over the last year, because I couldn't (university connection prevented it), and also because the map got extremely little playtesting done before the 2.0 release.
Unfortunately I always underestimate the ability for people to be extremely annoying and to exploit the smallest of problems.
But if the door was closable, would there be problems with commanders building all buildings which marines dont need to access out on the landing pad? Would that be a problem?
I'll probably be adding another resource node in the fog corridor too, to make it a bit more attractive for commanders to try and conquer (and because resource nodes are scarce around the marine start).
I resign to the fact that you guys know more about what I should do here than I do, so feel free to make suggestions, but bear in mind I'm not prepared to do any major overhauls when smaller solutions will work just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well there you have it ppl, the Hara maker sees the problem and is going to make a change or two for 2.1 (hopefully). This thread is now done! Its purpose has been served
<!--QuoteBegin--Merkaba+Aug 27 2003, 07:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Aug 27 2003, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I resign to the fact that you guys know more about what I should do here than I do, so feel free to make suggestions, but bear in mind I'm not prepared to do any major overhauls when smaller solutions will work just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about this:
1. Simply disallow any buildings on the tube walkway, on top or in it. Without oc or dc support there, it is not much of a problem.
2.If the above is not possible, relocate the boxes on the landing pad so that it completely covers the res node from the tube. You may also choose to build the boxes so high such that the marines can climb up it and be able to have a clear shot at whatever is built up there. So give res node cover from tube, and possibly give marine clear shot at tube, both simply by moving the boxes on the pad.
-closing and opening the door is avoiding the problem and may lead to worse annoyances. -if youre going for the 'dome' make it such that it LOOKS like you can open it for incoming ships.
GL does not apply to killing 1-hive lerks. Pistol works in most places, but the hera start isn't one of them. It's just too hard to hit a lerk when he has than many places to hide, you have no cover, and lerks are so mobile. Because any lerk with sense wouldn't stand still enough to empty your pistol into, the lmg is usually a better weapon for killing them. It just does not function at that range. NS physics do not function well in really big open areas.
In the current version of hera, it's probably best to just leave the lerk alone. The damage it can do from that far away is better than the damage it will do if you chase it or stay in base. It will spike your rt, and you will lose it. Place the rest of your buildings well, and the lerk will be unable to get them. Spores only work when your marines are there.
As for possible fixes: anything that results in the marines having a vulnerable starting res will be too exploitable for fair gameplay. It's just like the vent in marine start of bast; it basically forces you to relocate because the resources required to counter the issue are greater than just moving away to a better place. In the case of hera, there is no good reason for that area to be so open. I'd suggest closing off the top of the glass tunnel and putting a clip brush around the landing pad that prevents kharaa from getting there the long way.
Ignore the lerk. Just leave your base, doing whatever you need to do. If the lerk wants to spike to death your RT node, let him have fun, that's 1 alien player that will not be on the field for <b>5 minutes</b> keeping you from hives and nodes. In actuallity, what you guys consider overpowered is actually incredibly weak. If the marines just leave the base defended with some turrets, the lerk will not be able to do crap to the turrets(turrets chew lerks), and if the lerk wishes to kill your node then let him. Don't waste manpower on a non-existing threat.
It's amazing some people consider a lerk 'spiking' to death your RT node overpowered. It's incredibly weak and by the time the node is killed, all you have to do is build a new one, for a mere 15 res which will stay for another 5 min before the lerks kill it again. Meanwhile, your marines can happily steal the rest of the nodes on the map and lock down a hive or two with the distinct advantage of one less alien player to fight.
Comments
Or more likely, the lerk spores the lot of them and gets three amusing kills.
I do like the upper catwalk in marine start though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't think hera's the only map that fits that catagory.
I agree with the guy who pointed out that the vent in bast's marine start is a death trap. I also agree that the airlock is no different - as aliens seem to always be waiting on the other side - preventing the only semi-safe relocation (atmospheric being way too risky especially if the aliens have feedwater).
Now, I really do like bast if the marines can get some sort of a foothold as the map looks and feels great, but maybe the marines need more breathing room - maybe push engine room and feedwater back a little bit. Otherwise aliens can just rush in much too quickly 2/3 of the time.
I apologise for these problems with the map, I personally put it down to the fact that I actually played very little NS over the last year, because I couldn't (university connection prevented it), and also because the map got extremely little playtesting done before the 2.0 release.
Unfortunately I always underestimate the ability for people to be extremely annoying and to exploit the smallest of problems.
But if the door was closable, would there be problems with commanders building all buildings which marines dont need to access out on the landing pad? Would that be a problem?
I'll probably be adding another resource node in the fog corridor too, to make it a bit more attractive for commanders to try and conquer (and because resource nodes are scarce around the marine start).
I resign to the fact that you guys know more about what I should do here than I do, so feel free to make suggestions, but bear in mind I'm not prepared to do any major overhauls when smaller solutions will work just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there you have it ppl, the Hara maker sees the problem and is going to make a change or two for 2.1 (hopefully).
This thread is now done!
Its purpose has been served
How about this:
1. Simply disallow any buildings on the tube walkway, on top or in it. Without oc or dc support there, it is not much of a problem.
2.If the above is not possible, relocate the boxes on the landing pad so that it completely covers the res node from the tube. You may also choose to build the boxes so high such that the marines can climb up it and be able to have a clear shot at whatever is built up there. So give res node cover from tube, and possibly give marine clear shot at tube, both simply by moving the boxes on the pad.
-closing and opening the door is avoiding the problem and may lead to worse annoyances.
-if youre going for the 'dome' make it such that it LOOKS like you can open it for incoming ships.
In the current version of hera, it's probably best to just leave the lerk alone. The damage it can do from that far away is better than the damage it will do if you chase it or stay in base. It will spike your rt, and you will lose it. Place the rest of your buildings well, and the lerk will be unable to get them. Spores only work when your marines are there.
As for possible fixes: anything that results in the marines having a vulnerable starting res will be too exploitable for fair gameplay. It's just like the vent in marine start of bast; it basically forces you to relocate because the resources required to counter the issue are greater than just moving away to a better place. In the case of hera, there is no good reason for that area to be so open. I'd suggest closing off the top of the glass tunnel and putting a clip brush around the landing pad that prevents kharaa from getting there the long way.
Ignore the lerk. Just leave your base, doing whatever you need to do. If the lerk wants to spike to death your RT node, let him have fun, that's 1 alien player that will not be on the field for <b>5 minutes</b> keeping you from hives and nodes. In actuallity, what you guys consider overpowered is actually incredibly weak. If the marines just leave the base defended with some turrets, the lerk will not be able to do crap to the turrets(turrets chew lerks), and if the lerk wishes to kill your node then let him. Don't waste manpower on a non-existing threat.
It's amazing some people consider a lerk 'spiking' to death your RT node overpowered. It's incredibly weak and by the time the node is killed, all you have to do is build a new one, for a mere 15 res which will stay for another 5 min before the lerks kill it again. Meanwhile, your marines can happily steal the rest of the nodes on the map and lock down a hive or two with the distinct advantage of one less alien player to fight.