End Game
hames
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8293Members
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8293Members
Yes another post!
I had the pleasure in playing in a great end game a few moments ago. It consisted on ns_nothing and the marines located in the power silo. However, they put EVERYTHING on top, out of the reach. They had 4 guys with gls spamming each entrance constantly, while other people had jet packs and shotguns flying around protecting everything.
The aliens had two hives and control of the map. Sadly nothing could be done due to many reasons.
The main reasons where the grenade spam and then when anyone went into the area they got blasted by 20 turrets, and all the marines flying around with jetpacks. I decided it was due to a lack of long range weapons. The only class that had long range weapons was the lerk and it did not have splash damage so you couldn't really pick anything off. At least with acid rocket you are able to shoot in the general direction and cause damage to a wide array of structures, however because we only had two hives we could not do that.
The alien team sent 5 onos and a few other units into the power silo (Their command chair was ontop of the resource.) to try to destroy their resource tower and command chair (They had 2 other chairs I believe). I think that 3 onos died and the other 2 redeemed. In short, it was not very productive - the marines just replaced the tower in no time and we where at square one.
A few possible solutions:
1.) Limit the amount of turrets a factory can make. However, if they really wanted to hole up they would need more factories, this would just slow them down.
2.) Switch acid rocket with metabolism, so they can have a decent attack at long range. Reduce the damage to 30-40 for 2nd hive, but raise it back up to 50 when the third hive arrives.
3.) The shotgun has been toned down in the beta patchs, so I will not comment on that. It's a great weapon, but I think its a little to powerful.
4.) The half damage from turrets to onos is good.(Beta patch)
I think it was just due to a lack of long range weapons, since everyone was up high. This would also make 'normal' end game turret farms easier to take down. It was obviously that aliens won, but it wasn't nesscary for it to drag on.
Post up your thoughts.
I had the pleasure in playing in a great end game a few moments ago. It consisted on ns_nothing and the marines located in the power silo. However, they put EVERYTHING on top, out of the reach. They had 4 guys with gls spamming each entrance constantly, while other people had jet packs and shotguns flying around protecting everything.
The aliens had two hives and control of the map. Sadly nothing could be done due to many reasons.
The main reasons where the grenade spam and then when anyone went into the area they got blasted by 20 turrets, and all the marines flying around with jetpacks. I decided it was due to a lack of long range weapons. The only class that had long range weapons was the lerk and it did not have splash damage so you couldn't really pick anything off. At least with acid rocket you are able to shoot in the general direction and cause damage to a wide array of structures, however because we only had two hives we could not do that.
The alien team sent 5 onos and a few other units into the power silo (Their command chair was ontop of the resource.) to try to destroy their resource tower and command chair (They had 2 other chairs I believe). I think that 3 onos died and the other 2 redeemed. In short, it was not very productive - the marines just replaced the tower in no time and we where at square one.
A few possible solutions:
1.) Limit the amount of turrets a factory can make. However, if they really wanted to hole up they would need more factories, this would just slow them down.
2.) Switch acid rocket with metabolism, so they can have a decent attack at long range. Reduce the damage to 30-40 for 2nd hive, but raise it back up to 50 when the third hive arrives.
3.) The shotgun has been toned down in the beta patchs, so I will not comment on that. It's a great weapon, but I think its a little to powerful.
4.) The half damage from turrets to onos is good.(Beta patch)
I think it was just due to a lack of long range weapons, since everyone was up high. This would also make 'normal' end game turret farms easier to take down. It was obviously that aliens won, but it wasn't nesscary for it to drag on.
Post up your thoughts.
Comments
1) I certainly agree that turret factories should have a limit of how many turrets that can be created within a Turret Factory's radius. If the limit is exceedeed, the turret factory could possibly shut down and another turret factory would need to be created. Or like you said, just not enable the commander to drop any more turrets within that radius.
2) If acid rocket was switched with metabolism, metabolism would probably never even be used, because at three hives, there would be so many other ways to take out the marines, mostly xenocide. Also, Flayra designed fades to be close-quarters infantry aliens. I'm guessing Acid Rocket was forcefully put as the 3rd hive skill because only then, are fades fully evolutionized.
3) Shotguns are very powerful but also run out of ammo very quickly and take forever to reload. Of course you can let one bullet reload and shoot the gun again but it will only handicap you again when you need to reload that one bullet or the whole 10-shotgun clip. Also, be sure to keep updated on 2.1, as I understand the shotgun will be reduced to a 8-shotgun clip.
4) Definitely a great idea to reduce the damage the turrets do on Onos. Gives the onos some chance to attack turret farms, taking at least one turret down.
What do 10 aliens do against 10 marines with 3-3 upgrades + 15 turretts that wont take 90 minutes? All the nade launchers do is keep pressing their use key on the armory so they can spam nades...the other guys just chill around the res tower and horridly destroy any approaching onos. Since an onos with carapace dies at mach 6, you cant really do anything with the fade class. Acid rocket doesnt do enough damage to players, and even if you use blink and slash effectivly you die too fast to do any real damage. By the time you slash maybe once or twice, you already have to blink away...Onos can stay in the fight longer, but not really long enough to do any real damage...thats a problem.
Umbra can help yes, but not to the point where its going to dramatically change the end game scenario. It doesnt last long enough, and even in the next patch, its not going to be as effective. Umbra used to be so manditory if you were killing marines...now its like, 'i'm in umbra....ok thats cool I think'
Bile bomb could be a solution...but wait. Not enough range...and if an onos dies so quickly, what is a lonely fatt3h to do against all those big heavy shotguns that attack so fast the reload animation doesnt even finish?
I read that these issues were going to be addressed. I hope they are solved in the upcoming patch. If the marines lost, they should lose, not sit there for an extra 40-50 minutes prolonging a game, its just fruitless..
Acid rocket does alot of dmg against players, a lvl 3 LA marine dies in exactly 5 shots, and if u include the splash dmg u might be able to kill more than one marine.
This end game scenario could be solved by switching metabolize and acid rocket, and giving acid rocket some of its 1.04 attributes. I dont like firing 6 or 7 rockets and doing unnoticable damage. I would rather fire 3-4 and watch structures drop. Also, having charge earlier on in the game could prevent this type of turtling...just a suggestion
Thank God it's nothing like 1.04, I remember when people barely BOTHERED to use an Onos, it was just a kick in the teeth of the Marine players.
Usually, when this happens, it's the aliens own fault. They have been leaning back after taking a hive, killing the odd rambo, laming up the map, saving for Onos... in the meantime, Marines get entrenched. One RT doesn't give much, but with the skulks that keep dropping by it masses up.. enough for another upgrade or a couple of more turrets. Not until the place is so fortified that the above scenario of Aliens not getting through the door without dying, as Onos, do the aliens seem to realise what's going on.
What I am saying is that the easiest way to beat this is to pull your team together *before* this happens. Once Marines are reduced to one base, every minute you leave them alive is another minute where every res will be spent *in* that area, making it harder and harder to take down. I'm kind of sick of Aliens whining about how lame turretfarms or GL spam is when it's their passivity and complacentnes that get the Marines into that position.
Also, Fades. Blink through the GL spam and kill the GL:ers. Even if the GL is picked up, it will take a few moments before the spam begins again, this is the time for the rest of the Aliens to move in.. with *umbra*. Umbra is so incredibly powerful right now. Oh, and *regen* on the cows.
I see stupid redemption cows *without* umbra moan about not being able to take down Marine bases or outposts, well duh. A regen cow with umbra will stay alive indefinetely, staying in there, dealing damage and soaking up bullets. A redemption cow isn't going to do any of the above. Congratulations, you redeemed and saved your 100 res, your team still isn't making any progress though.
In this case, you have only 4 aliens to work with, the onos can't help much. Gorges? Not enough range for bile, and spit is too weak. Building isn't recommended either, a good team will have sieges. Lerk? Spikes are too weak, gas might help against jetpackers though. Umbra could help against the turrets, but not against the grenades.
What's left? Melee attacks. Skulks and fades blinking up and slashing the base, while lerks provide umbra support. Assuming it is possible to get those aliens through the grenade rain, of course.
How did the aliens manage to get to the point where the marines were forced to turret farm themselves in,but yet,had enough res to do this effectively?
Aliens take hive. Aliens wait around for 10-20 minutes without attacking together since they've "won" already, instead eating the occasional low tech Marine. Marines have one RT and get RFK for all the skulks that run into Marine base.
Done this several times as Marine.
Even though that it may be the aliens fault that this happened, it should never happen anyways. We KNOW that the aliens won, we KNOW that the marines could never break out, we KNEW it was the end. The marine team was even saying things (Who happened to own the server by the way), "OH aliens having some trouble?" " LOL I wish I got a demo of that onos rush!". I'm not whining, I'm just trying to provide some information and some solutions to this problem. If they want to be lamers, then let them be lamers and waste their time in a hopeless and fruitful attempt.
What changes went to the acid rocket between 2.0 and 1.04? I stopped playing NS at 1.02 I believe, or maybe 1.03 so I do not remember it.
I hate these end-games more than a cocky alien player that thinks he owns simply because he did nothing, and I really mean nothing, except sit around and save res for onos, and then all of a sudden he thinks he owns the server when he did nothing to benefit his team.
Unfortunately, you can't end the end-game before all the loser aliens want it to end. Because god forbid that the marines might not actually want to sit there for an extra 90 minutes getting killed by onos, and the onos unable to do anything against the fully teched + grenade spammed marine start.
People who weren't actually admins who think they have powers in the server administration simply because they can get kills have threatened to ban me for ending thier pointless time-wasting fun. I mean, why would the marines quit when they could be subjected to painful deaths for 2 hours?
I'm not there to boost anyone else's ego in any game unless they deserve it. I'm there to have fun. Therefore, I will quit when I see that the marines have lost and the long end-game has begun, because it is not fun.
2.1 will fix annoyingly long end-games hopefully. However, I can't really say anything definite about it until I've actually played it.
Can't wait for 2.1......
Edit: Clarification....
Actually one team wins by destroying the others chance to spawn. Doesn't look like you were able to do that and neither were they, so it would be a draw or a stalemate. Just because you have the whole map lamed up and a bunch of cows doesn't mean you've "won". This is as it should be, the punishment for fooling around isntead of trying to finish/win is the fact that you *don't* win.