Just Played A Great Game On Tanith
wlibaers
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The Mother of all Turret Farms (TM)</div> Tactic: The Mother of all Turret Farms
I wasn't there when it started. When I joined (using the name WL, on the marine team, for those who were there, hi!) the marines has a base in waste handling. The marine start was lost quickly. we then proceeded what any sane marine team would do: turret farm the hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keeping the aliens out of the base was relatively easy. Even if they got in, they didn't live long with all those turrets. There wasn't much GL use, usually no more than 2 at a time (it was mostly a 8 vs 8 game). The turrets and being in a good position was enough to keep them out. Most of the time people were using LMG, with few HA.
Now, people don't like boring stalemates. So we tried to get out, managed to build a turret factory about halfway down the green coridor next to waste. That expansion wasn't succesful. Also, going out of the base was tried repeatedly, but always turned out to be suicide. The aliens had the rest of the map, and cloaking and defence everywhere. Redemption oni were lurking at every corner.
So, while we really did want to break the stalemate, we couldn't get out of the base. And the aliens couldn't defeat us. Solution: extend the base. We started expanding to the resource tower in west access corridor below waste handling. that was a bit too far, and the aliens defended well. we did eventually take it, but only after turret farming the vent room between the hive and the resource, and getting sieges there. This success provided us with two resource towers (even though holding them wasn't easy). Then we started to move up the ladder. Turret farming both the lower and upper side of the ladder turned out to be necessary. We then had the option of going towards the marine start or reactor room. We picked rr, putting a turret farm with sieges near the top of that small ladder first. Then we got a turret farm next to the double res at rr, and another one on the upper level.
We now had lots of resources to build more turret farms, and more weapons too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
At this point, about one third of the map was quite thorougly turret farmed, with phasegates near most tf's, and everyone had pings higher than 300 (and rising, it would go up to about 500). So we started to push towards the fusion hive, but the room in front of it (cargo) had lots of chambers, and alien resistance was pretty strong. We had success turret farming our first vent, so we decided to try turret farming another one near fusion. Getting a phasegate in there too allowed our HA guys to get to fusion easily. We then turret farmed fusion and took down the hive (mostly in that order, primarily because the hive was cloaked and we kind of forgot to shoot it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). The aliens'reliance on redempting oni with very few gorges helped a lot. The aliens did manage to take back reactor room, partly because bilebombing was more feasible there than in most other places.
Killing the second hive made thigns a lot easier: no more stomp, umbra or bilebomb.
We then turret farmed the eastern corridor leading to fusion to siege cargo, and took that too. Then a walk to acidic solution processing followed. This one wasn't turret farmed properly, the aliens took it back once before we firmly established our grip on that location and moved to chemical transport room. (before you start thingking the marines were exaggerating a little bit, keep in mind that the aliens also built quite a few walls of lame)
By this time we had good weapons, HA and jetpacks. An armoury at chemical transport room allowed some grenade spam into the entrances while the local turret farm was strenghtened. The aliens had taken back west access corridor, but as long as we kept waste itself that was not considered a major problem. Deciding to break the trend, we did not turret farm all the way into satcom but instead marched towards the hive from chemical transport room, where our heavy weaponry quickly destroyed the hive.
In the end, it took us more than 4 hours to finish the job. Except for the part where we lost marine start and everyone expected a boring stalemate at waste handling, it was pretty good. Lots of fighting, hundreds of casualties,...
And stalemate jokes, of course. I'm still surprised the server didn't crash with all those turrets. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Trench warfare can be fun after all... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wasn't there when it started. When I joined (using the name WL, on the marine team, for those who were there, hi!) the marines has a base in waste handling. The marine start was lost quickly. we then proceeded what any sane marine team would do: turret farm the hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keeping the aliens out of the base was relatively easy. Even if they got in, they didn't live long with all those turrets. There wasn't much GL use, usually no more than 2 at a time (it was mostly a 8 vs 8 game). The turrets and being in a good position was enough to keep them out. Most of the time people were using LMG, with few HA.
Now, people don't like boring stalemates. So we tried to get out, managed to build a turret factory about halfway down the green coridor next to waste. That expansion wasn't succesful. Also, going out of the base was tried repeatedly, but always turned out to be suicide. The aliens had the rest of the map, and cloaking and defence everywhere. Redemption oni were lurking at every corner.
So, while we really did want to break the stalemate, we couldn't get out of the base. And the aliens couldn't defeat us. Solution: extend the base. We started expanding to the resource tower in west access corridor below waste handling. that was a bit too far, and the aliens defended well. we did eventually take it, but only after turret farming the vent room between the hive and the resource, and getting sieges there. This success provided us with two resource towers (even though holding them wasn't easy). Then we started to move up the ladder. Turret farming both the lower and upper side of the ladder turned out to be necessary. We then had the option of going towards the marine start or reactor room. We picked rr, putting a turret farm with sieges near the top of that small ladder first. Then we got a turret farm next to the double res at rr, and another one on the upper level.
We now had lots of resources to build more turret farms, and more weapons too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
At this point, about one third of the map was quite thorougly turret farmed, with phasegates near most tf's, and everyone had pings higher than 300 (and rising, it would go up to about 500). So we started to push towards the fusion hive, but the room in front of it (cargo) had lots of chambers, and alien resistance was pretty strong. We had success turret farming our first vent, so we decided to try turret farming another one near fusion. Getting a phasegate in there too allowed our HA guys to get to fusion easily. We then turret farmed fusion and took down the hive (mostly in that order, primarily because the hive was cloaked and we kind of forgot to shoot it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). The aliens'reliance on redempting oni with very few gorges helped a lot. The aliens did manage to take back reactor room, partly because bilebombing was more feasible there than in most other places.
Killing the second hive made thigns a lot easier: no more stomp, umbra or bilebomb.
We then turret farmed the eastern corridor leading to fusion to siege cargo, and took that too. Then a walk to acidic solution processing followed. This one wasn't turret farmed properly, the aliens took it back once before we firmly established our grip on that location and moved to chemical transport room. (before you start thingking the marines were exaggerating a little bit, keep in mind that the aliens also built quite a few walls of lame)
By this time we had good weapons, HA and jetpacks. An armoury at chemical transport room allowed some grenade spam into the entrances while the local turret farm was strenghtened. The aliens had taken back west access corridor, but as long as we kept waste itself that was not considered a major problem. Deciding to break the trend, we did not turret farm all the way into satcom but instead marched towards the hive from chemical transport room, where our heavy weaponry quickly destroyed the hive.
In the end, it took us more than 4 hours to finish the job. Except for the part where we lost marine start and everyone expected a boring stalemate at waste handling, it was pretty good. Lots of fighting, hundreds of casualties,...
And stalemate jokes, of course. I'm still surprised the server didn't crash with all those turrets. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Trench warfare can be fun after all... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
O_o o_O o_o O_O O_= =_O x_x <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: Then again, I've heard of 8 hour games.
I agree, this is one fo the reasons why i'm for max # of turrets in a area
It is counterrable... it just may take a few HOURS to crack the marines (sometimes by letting them overextend themselves, or simply 4xOnos rushing them.
[edit] oh yeah, 2 hives means lerks had umbra. GG aliens, see how helpful your sensory is now?[/edit]
if I notice them trying to lame until they're teched, I inform them that I know how to counter it, and that this is a waste of everyone's time.
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if I notice them trying to lame until they're teched, I inform them that I know how to counter it, and that this is a waste of everyone's time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what is that counter? You sure seem fairly smug for someone who has not given any solid details.
Anyway, that sounds like an awesome game wilbaers. I also would much rather have the marines attempt at breaking out rather than sitting there with gl spam.
WRONG! [/Willy Wonka]
seriously, I didn't want to list it, it's probably listed in kharaa strats already.
Step 1: Identify problem.. That's easy, the marines have holed themselves up in a hive
Step 2: Assess the situation.. That's easy, they want resnodes/hives.
Step 3: Take necessary measures.. Fairly simple, but I'll require a few household items to get this job done. First it'd be nice to have..
A team with at least 2 decent and smart human beings
A team with at least 2 people to keep watch for marine movement
Perhaps 1 lerk support just in case they do get on top of the hive before you do. Whoops, I'm getting ahead of myself.
Defense Chambers.
Movement would be preferred, but if you went sensory and they locked down a hive you probably are an idiot anyway and should just F4.
Know how a turret farm works? Inverse turret farm. Build 3 O-chambers, 2 D chambers, and Another O-chamber. Maybe a movement chamber every other lame station (just in case they sneak by and you need to get to a hive, quick). Rinse, repeat.
HIVE DEFENSE. This is very important. If you let joe Q. Dolt build your base defense at the hive.. you're screwed. Try and build any O-chambers in places where Jetpackers would like to be to shoot the hive. Try to build D chambers to heal both those O-chambers AND the hive. 3 movements at each hive is a minimum.
CHOKE POINTS. Very important that you get a bunch of chambers up all over the place (sieges take longer to kill things if you spread them out, but they'll be less efficient as well).
[edit]MARINE START. Lame it up, people, they can use beacon just as easy as you can use their first resnode for target practice once they've relocated![/edit]
Total Res cost-about 30 minutes of 2-3 people's time.
Important factors to not forget:
Onos. The Onos is a very fat cow. That said, remember that the Onos is big, very big. Very very big. Do you know what that means? You need to build the lame so that Onos can get by without getting trapped, or stalled long. <b>Don't completely block important hallways off!</b>
Lerks: Lerks can do more than just gas.. they have umbra, and it is a ranged weapon.. Use it. Movement chambers help, but watch out for nasty Mr. Siege crawl!
Gorge: Don't let other people lame for you, if you know how to do it. Try to show them where and how to do it right.
Fade: meh, if they can be a good fade, so be it.
Skulk: Leave them out of the marine hidey-hole. They'll just give free res. Save for Onos, you dirty dirty skulk!
Vents: Lame up large spaces in vents, but don't forget about movement. If you prevenet one team from moving through an area.. you might be stopping yourself as well.
Defense Defense Defense. Large amounts of D chambers placed near the final stand of Custer help the Onos go in, eat an HA, come out, and heal up to max again, regardless of what upgrade they take. Just watch out for <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> !
[edit]almost forgot.. Don't bother suiciding against the marines unless you're a rambo alien (then you're useless anyway), they get free res, and you lose res. So just sit and wait (it's what they're doing!)[/edit]
Things to watch out for:
HA trains leaving their base.. That means there are fewer marines defending, leaving the primary base RIPE for plucking (with a 2-5 Onos rush, or something smaller but better coordinated)
JP. Eventually they'll figure out they can JP past most of your lame.. into more lame. But they can JP past that into.. that's right, more lame. But if they get past that, they'll run into.. wow! More lame. Don't give them ANY places that will be safe to TF/Siege from outside of directly next to their base. Smart OC placement, people... Another threat from the JP is a direct hive assault. If you forgot to properly lame your Hives, you'll be short a hive quickly, and if the same is true for your last hive.. better hope you're close to a movement chamber, missy!
Mistake to avoid: Don't waste your time with sensory in late-game. Unless you plan on rebuilding lame without either D or M, you really shouldn't do that.. You really need D lategame. M really helps. S.. just cloaks things? Scent of Fear could be useful, but not at the risk of trapping yourself with no D>M to defend yourself against the cruel marines.
Are you happy now?
[edit]This accounts for a siege-crawl expansion strat. If the marines are gung-ho'ing it across the map, it should be even easier for you to break them. And when the comm panics and beacons.. free res for the aliens (OC's will finish them off before they can escape). Siege-crawling is the ONLY way for the marines to reclaim land possessed by aliens.. if they don't have to crawl, they won't, which means they'll come faster. Don't forget that every res node they pick up, the faster they'll be coming. It's all about slowing the marines down, and taking them out from behind (killing their base while they're away)[/edit]
The mistakes they made were sensory second (and some of them did realize it was a mistake) and lack of combined units. Sensory second (they took def first) may be a good idea if you're sure you can get the third hive quickly, but they couldn't. Generally, sensory isn't something you should get as second chamber. It's something to use before the marines can build much, and to prevent them from building, or to use when it's the last remaining upgrade.
That sensory did allow them to give us a few nasty surprises when the comm wasn't scanning. But it never was very useful for killing turrets.
Lack of combined units: few lerks, and they used spores more often than umbra. Not that they could afford much umbra without adrenalin. Few gorges. That's understandable as we tended to build in places that are hard to bilebomb, especially in waste handling. Loads of redemption oni trying to devour us. Those were dangerous, and they occasionally managed to take down a few turrets or even a TF. They also killed many marines. Annoying, as they're hard to kill, but most of the time they redeemed before much damage could be done, and attacking in large groups wasn't common either.
Of course, gettting THAT level of cooperation on pubs is just about impossible. Hard enough to get ppl to stop saving for onos or early fade.
Of course, gettting THAT level of cooperation on pubs is just about impossible. Hard enough to get ppl to stop saving for onos or early fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
matso, I've learned that a 4 Onos suicide charge is something to be feared by all.. Get at least 2 with carapace, preferrably all (it's a suicide rush, you're going to lose 1-2). I assume they had celerity. They bumrushed the TF, the IPs, the Armory.. it was over in less than 45 seconds, and with only 1 onos dead from the turrts and GL'ers.
Unless this was before 2.0
Yes, with that light damage thing we'd need twice the amount of turrets <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(just kidding)
Oh, and lagging the server wasn't the intention, merely an unfortunate side effect. There were downsides for the marines too. For example, the combination of lag and lots of buildings on the resource platform in waste handling made it pretty hard to get away from the IP. Getting to the first armoury was difficult.
One of the aliens asked us (open discussion of tactics over global chat) if they might be able to kill the arms lab, to get rid of the upgrades. Reaction: "good luck, WE can't even get there anymore."
I do agree that this isn't theway the game should be played. But if it doesn't happen too often, it can be fun too. Not everyone agrees, obviously. Some people quit and joined again an hour or more later. Reaction: "What? Is this still going on?"
Everyone seemed to be bored and wanted the game to end, but neither side was willing to give up, so we ended up fighting for 246 minutes. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
What was especially funny was listening to the alien team **** at "Max" for building sensory second, and watching wave after wave of redemption onos fail to do anything at all.
lol, i ban people for turret farming main base
Um I saw almost the exact same thing happen just yesterday when I played on the map (forget the name of it) that has the 3 hives named sub sector 5 (or something like that), cargo, and pipeline.
The exact same thing happened.... except the aliens had movement and defencive chambers and the marines relocated to sub sector 5 hive. They already had level 3 weapons and since sub sector offers good feilds of fire for marines we couldn't get in on them... plus they had their turret farm all up just infront of the res node on the elevated platform. With nade spam and a few sieges we couldn't get any chambers of any sort even remotely close.
They slowly managed to push out to overlook and take it, we then took it back, turned into quite a back and forth battle untill they turret farmed virtually all of overlook and had a phase... they then managed to push to double res's useing turret farms the entire way and we couldn't take it back due to massive turrets and continual nade spam in the vents and out the doors.
I won't continue the story but the point I am trying to make is that it really doesn't matter what chambers you have, marines can do this. HOWEVER, in order for marines to do this it requires alot of unorganization by the aliens and lack of communication. Even just a little bit of communication (like just letting us know they are attacking overlook) would have made it impossible for marines to win.
I would say the reason that aliens loose any games where they have the entire map and 2 hives and the marines have 1 hive and a dinky 1 res node is because of alien inadequacy. All a remotly good team of aliens would have to do is kill 1 turret every 49 seconds and the marines would not be able to get enough res to support that rate of building loss.
Don't try and blame the reason the game was won for marines on the chamber selection that you (obviously) don't like. Instead blame it on what it really was. Alien inadequacy.