The fade is a very strong skulk. It has great flexibility due to blink, but need adrenaline to work properly. A solo fade can take out up to 3-4 marines if used correctly, but only LA marines. If you encou8nter more than one marine with HWs youre dead. If you encounter more than one HA, youre dead. Lvl 3 wpns and SG = 1 shot kill.
The fade needs an ability to reduce the amount of damage given to him while fighting stronger enemies, but not while fighting many enemies(teamwork should be a good way to kill all aliens). It can already kill LMG/LA marines in small groups. The problem is, what tier 2 skill can make the fade able to kill ONE HA or SG marine?.
1. Disarm in some way Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns.
2. Meatshield The old metabolize skill, greatly reducing damage taken. Alows you to get close to heavy units, still, it will result in fade becoming an immortal tank with regen, if marines dont have super uber stuff.
3. Ability to separate. If you can lead a pack of marines in different ways, they can be taken out. a hmg ha marine can be killed by a fade and some skulks, but 5 cant.
4. Decoy 2 fades one is real, you get the point...gotta go...
<!--QuoteBegin--Geronimo+Aug 21 2003, 09:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Aug 21 2003, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 4. Decoy 2 fades one is real, you get the point...gotta go... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Geronimo, I actually suggested this before 2.0 even came out, and listed the 3 primary methods it could be best achieved.
If You guys havent seen this suggestion, have a look: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=37586&hl=mirror+image' target='_blank'>What is a Marine to do, When one Fade, Becomes Two!</a>
acid rocket was moved to hive 3 because blink + long range weapon was very overpowered.
Fades can be very useful throughout the entire game. Even against HA fades can be used as a distraction, you can blink about a room and the marines will likely go after you, not the skulks. Marines also go after oni 1st, so use that to your advantage!
I, too, would like to see some kind of offensive skill for the fade's third spot. Just a more damaging swipe, or paralyze, anything useful in battle would be nice.
Part of the reason I think fade's aren't as useful as other classes is because their mid-game abilty is pretty much crap.
To prove this, look no farther than at most NS games:
Every class on the alien team pretty much needs to be used. The onos is a real nessesity to wrap up a game(you need something that can withstand massive amounts of abuse), the lerk is nessesary if they have big guns(umbra, spores break up big formations) the gorge is a requirement(duh), you start as a skulk... but getting a fade doesn't help to guarentee much, other than the fact that he can... kill stuff... uh yeah.
Getting the fade before the marines start to get a lot of research is useful, but only against bad teams... as marine teams learn to adapt marine tech comes faster, 1-2 shotties happen to be in every squad, and as a result, fades die <b>very</b> fast against unless you are good with the fade. I'd say the fade is the hardest class in the game to play well at the moment.
I think fade's should do stuff like focus on causing confusion within marine ranks. That's one role that isn't fufilled by other classes, and the fade already has 2 abilities which are geared towards confusion and allowing others to live longer due to this confusion:
- Blink, hard to hit, blinking fades also pose a real threat; they could pop in your face and kill you if you choose to ignore them. - Acid Rocket, hard to kill the enemies close by when being nailed from afar by an attack which can kill you very fast. Although, Acid Rocket could use a *slight* boost to it's power at the moment.
The fade's midgame ability, metabolize, is pretty useless. It doesn't help you live longer in the majority of most situations, the healing is slow, and it's redundant(regenerating HP is already an upgrade..).
So this pretty much sums up the problem.
One solution I see towards making Fade's a larger threat at the midgame level is to replace metabolize, and to give them a new ability that would promote confusion and allow other classes to make use of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Disarm in some way Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone else has stated, I happen to agree with this in all of it's entireity. The idea behind this is simple; it causes confusion, giving all nearby aliens increased survivibilty. This attack would operate as follows:
- The attack takes little adren to use(so usuing it and blink won't be impossible to do). - Has a one second cooldown, similar to bite (this way it can't be used on large squads of marines). - The marine it hits has his gun randomally placed on the ground around him. - Deals 10 damage(it hits the gun, not the marine) - If some diehard wants an explantion of why only the fade can knock away guns, it's because only the fade has strong arms to do so...) <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> - It can't knock away your knife. - The marine hit with this attack will have his view 'skewed' similar to how the knife used to back in 1.0x. (Promote the confusion)
Against a lone shotgunner, he will be toast; the pullout time of the SG will be enough for a lone fade to continually knock away his gun while beating him senseless. Against a lone HMG/HA, the fade will have a hard time winning by himself, but even with skulk backup the skulks will have enough time to get in the bites nessary to kill the HA marine.
In large fights between aliens and marines, several things could happen in the choas plus a fade:
- A marine who looses his gun may not be able to find his gun admist the frenzy - A marine who looses his gun may have it picked up by another marine, who could be slowed down or confused by the aspect of picking up a GL or HMG dispite the fact none of the marines died; the weapon may fall into the hands of a weaker marine(a LA marine, or a marine who's aim isn't as good). - The gun may fall into a spot that is hard to reach without some good footwork; i. e. at the bottem of a pit, in water, next to your friendly onos, etc.
But, anyhow, something needs to be done with metabolize, currently it's a really craptacular ability.
EDIT:
Also, swipe should be stronger at 85 points of damage, this way, a marine can't get lv. 1 armor and get a 50% life expectancy against a fade. He will need lv. 2 armor.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Aug 21 2003, 11:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 21 2003, 11:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Part of the reason I think fade's aren't as useful as other classes is because their mid-game abilty is pretty much crap.
To prove this, look no farther than at most NS games:
Every class on the alien team pretty much needs to be used. The onos is a real nessesity to wrap up a game(you need something that can withstand massive amounts of abuse), the lerk is nessesary if they have big guns(umbra, spores break up big formations) the gorge is a requirement(duh), you start as a skulk... but getting a fade doesn't help to guarentee much, other than the fact that he can... kill stuff... uh yeah.
Getting the fade before the marines start to get a lot of research is useful, but only against bad teams... as marine teams learn to adapt marine tech comes faster, 1-2 shotties happen to be in every squad, and as a result, fades die <b>very</b> fast against unless you are good with the fade. I'd say the fade is the hardest class in the game to play well at the moment.
I think fade's should do stuff like focus on causing confusion within marine ranks. That's one role that isn't fufilled by other classes, and the fade already has 2 abilities which are geared towards confusion and allowing others to live longer due to this confusion:
- Blink, hard to hit, blinking fades also pose a real threat; they could pop in your face and kill you if you choose to ignore them. - Acid Rocket, hard to kill the enemies close by when being nailed from afar by an attack which can kill you very fast. Although, Acid Rocket could use a *slight* boost to it's power at the moment.
The fade's midgame ability, metabolize, is pretty useless. It doesn't help you live longer in the majority of most situations, the healing is slow, and it's redundant(regenerating HP is already an upgrade..).
So this pretty much sums up the problem.
One solution I see towards making Fade's a larger threat at the midgame level is to replace metabolize, and to give them a new ability that would promote confusion and allow other classes to make use of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Disarm in some way Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone else has stated, I happen to agree with this in all of it's entireity. The idea behind this is simple; it causes confusion, giving all nearby aliens increased survivibilty. This attack would operate as follows:
- The attack takes little adren to use(so usuing it and blink won't be impossible to do). - Has a one second cooldown, similar to bite (this way it can't be used on large squads of marines). - The marine it hits has his gun randomally placed on the ground around him. - Deals 10 damage(it hits the gun, not the marine) - If some diehard wants an explantion of why only the fade can knock away guns, it's because only the fade has strong arms to do so...) <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> - It can't knock away your knife. - The marine hit with this attack will have his view 'skewed' similar to how the knife used to back in 1.0x. (Promote the confusion)
Against a lone shotgunner, he will be toast; the pullout time of the SG will be enough for a lone fade to continually knock away his gun while beating him senseless. Against a lone HMG/HA, the fade will have a hard time winning by himself, but even with skulk backup the skulks will have enough time to get in the bites nessary to kill the HA marine.
In large fights between aliens and marines, several things could happen in the choas plus a fade:
- A marine who looses his gun may not be able to find his gun admist the frenzy - A marine who looses his gun may have it picked up by another marine, who could be slowed down or confused by the aspect of picking up a GL or HMG dispite the fact none of the marines died; the weapon may fall into the hands of a weaker marine(a LA marine, or a marine who's aim isn't as good). - The gun may fall into a spot that is hard to reach without some good footwork; i. e. at the bottem of a pit, in water, next to your friendly onos, etc.
But, anyhow, something needs to be done with metabolize, currently it's a really craptacular ability.
EDIT:
Also, swipe should be stronger at 85 points of damage, this way, a marine can't get lv. 1 armor and get a 50% life expectancy against a fade. He will need lv. 2 armor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know about you but i don't even get hit by shotty's :/ just blink, bunny and swipe with celerity <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Disarm in some way Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL
Dude... providing the marines are good shots, they will hit you, and you will die in 3 shots...
<!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Aug 21 2003, 06:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Aug 21 2003, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People used to think in 1.0x that the lerk sucked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It was only a matter of time before people realized that umbra was god damn invincibility, and that his spikes were hit-scan, not what the animation showed. And yeah, he could bite if someone got close.
Nice to see I wasn't going crazy, metabolize doesnt stack with regen.
Fades are hardly useless. A fade early game absolutely DEVASTATES any marine groups trying to advance and mid game with umbra support a fade can basically keep marines pinned in their spawn.
I put this in the suggestions forum, but it looks like it may fit here too:
I have heard a lot of talk about 2 different aspects of the fade. 1st of all, the aliens dont get an effective long range counter to HA until hive 3. Second of all, Metabolize (though a useful hive 2 ability) when given as a healing option creates an almost useless slot for the regeneration fades.
My solution involves a new skill for the Fade - a life leaching swipe. Against early marines, the Fade would have blink and swipe. for mid game he could have a (perhaps slightly toned down) acid rocket, and for end game he could have a weaker swipe that takes a portion of damage done and converts it into health. Of course it could only convert "life" of a marine (not damage done to armour) so a heavy marine wouldn't give near as much life to the attacking fade, but it would give the fade an advantage in the event of a med spam, without necessarily making him overpowered. I could invision attacking HA's with regular swipe, and saving the chewey morsel LA's for mid battle regen purposes. Just an Idea - might make the fade a little better to play again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Aug 21 2003, 07:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 21 2003, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Aug 21 2003, 06:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Aug 21 2003, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People used to think in 1.0x that the lerk sucked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was only a matter of time before people realized that umbra was god damn invincibility, and that his spikes were hit-scan, not what the animation showed. And yeah, he could bite if someone got close.
Got any neato tricks with the fade? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah try playing the fade like a 1.0x lerk (fly+bite/blink+slash)
First of all, I don't think Fades are underpowered at all and I don't intend to get into that debate yet again on this forum... Anyone who has seen a good one in action knows how extremely powerful they are. Fades are great and I love playing them. However, I do think they could use a more defined purpose in the game before 3 hives. Metabolize is very useful at times, but it doesn't really fit the pattern of the rest of the 2-hive abilities in that it only slightly enhances the Fade's 1-hive role by decreasing downtime(and, as mentioned, it's not uncommon that it's faster to blink back to a hive or D farm, particularly if you don't have Adrenaline).
I was really curious how the old Metabolize would work out when I heard about it on beta(one-second invurnerability which transfers damage to energy). Fades could bypass grenade spam, take out mines, and close the distance easier. I heard it was very bugged though so I don't know if Flayra ever got it working properly before replacing it... If it works, I would really like to see it tried again for a 2.1 beta version just to see how it fits in now.
At any rate I think the Fade's one true problem is a lack of purpose in the non-3-hive late game if you ask me. Against HAs it's just too dangerous to attempt a real attack and turret farms with at least one marine defending them are a risky proposition at best. Leap, Umbra, Bile Bomb, and Stomp are all very important abilities for the aliens yet Metabolize sticks out because it primarily enhances the Fade's early/mid game purpose. I'm not honestly sure how much the old Metabolize would help that but I think something should be done to Metabolize to give Fades a role to play later on if 3 hives aren't possible(though hopefully not make them more powerful in what they already do).
<!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Aug 21 2003, 08:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 21 2003, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all, I don't think Fades are underpowered at all and I don't intend to get into that debate yet again on this forum... Anyone who has seen a good one in action knows how extremely powerful they are. Fades are great and I love playing them. However, I do think they could use a more defined purpose in the game before 3 hives. Metabolize is very useful at times, but it doesn't really fit the pattern of the rest of the 2-hive abilities in that it only slightly enhances the Fade's 1-hive role by decreasing downtime(and, as mentioned, it's not uncommon that it's faster to blink back to a hive or D farm, particularly if you don't have Adrenaline). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Zek, this is exactly the point I have been trying to make.
I never said Fade's were terribly underpowered, in the early game yes they can rock, but the fact of the matter is that you really don't <b>need</b> fades to win in most instances. A guy could go fade or save up for onos, which isn't too far away... on large servers, to compliment the fact that skulks have jack crap for HP, you can get gorge gangs + lerk... Fade's are useful, but at the same time they are not useful. I think of them as a luxury that can be used to pound down a team that doesn't have a lot of tech, or a last resort tatic if you really need extra firepower against rushing marines.
I do think that fade's would be a hell of a lot more useful if their basic attack was stronger (the fact they are so weak doesn't help to define them seperatly from skulks), and if metabolize was replaced.(Disarm!)
Comments
The fade needs an ability to reduce the amount of damage given to him while fighting stronger enemies, but not while fighting many enemies(teamwork should be a good way to kill all aliens). It can already kill LMG/LA marines in small groups. The problem is, what tier 2 skill can make the fade able to kill ONE HA or SG marine?.
1. Disarm in some way
Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns.
2. Meatshield
The old metabolize skill, greatly reducing damage taken. Alows you to get close to heavy units, still, it will result in fade becoming an immortal tank with regen, if marines dont have super uber stuff.
3. Ability to separate.
If you can lead a pack of marines in different ways, they can be taken out. a hmg ha marine can be killed by a fade and some skulks, but 5 cant.
4. Decoy
2 fades one is real, you get the point...gotta go...
/until next time
2 fades one is real, you get the point...gotta go... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Geronimo, I actually suggested this before 2.0 even came out, and listed the 3 primary methods it could be best achieved.
If You guys havent seen this suggestion, have a look:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=37586&hl=mirror+image' target='_blank'>What is a Marine to do, When one Fade, Becomes Two!</a>
Fades can be very useful throughout the entire game. Even against HA fades can be used as a distraction, you can blink about a room and the marines will likely go after you, not the skulks. Marines also go after oni 1st, so use that to your advantage!
To prove this, look no farther than at most NS games:
Every class on the alien team pretty much needs to be used. The onos is a real nessesity to wrap up a game(you need something that can withstand massive amounts of abuse), the lerk is nessesary if they have big guns(umbra, spores break up big formations) the gorge is a requirement(duh), you start as a skulk... but getting a fade doesn't help to guarentee much, other than the fact that he can... kill stuff... uh yeah.
Getting the fade before the marines start to get a lot of research is useful, but only against bad teams... as marine teams learn to adapt marine tech comes faster, 1-2 shotties happen to be in every squad, and as a result, fades die <b>very</b> fast against unless you are good with the fade. I'd say the fade is the hardest class in the game to play well at the moment.
I think fade's should do stuff like focus on causing confusion within marine ranks. That's one role that isn't fufilled by other classes, and the fade already has 2 abilities which are geared towards confusion and allowing others to live longer due to this confusion:
- Blink, hard to hit, blinking fades also pose a real threat; they could pop in your face and kill you if you choose to ignore them.
- Acid Rocket, hard to kill the enemies close by when being nailed from afar by an attack which can kill you very fast. Although, Acid Rocket could use a *slight* boost to it's power at the moment.
The fade's midgame ability, metabolize, is pretty useless. It doesn't help you live longer in the majority of most situations, the healing is slow, and it's redundant(regenerating HP is already an upgrade..).
So this pretty much sums up the problem.
One solution I see towards making Fade's a larger threat at the midgame level is to replace metabolize, and to give them a new ability that would promote confusion and allow other classes to make use of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Disarm in some way
Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone else has stated, I happen to agree with this in all of it's entireity. The idea behind this is simple; it causes confusion, giving all nearby aliens increased survivibilty. This attack would operate as follows:
- The attack takes little adren to use(so usuing it and blink won't be impossible to do).
- Has a one second cooldown, similar to bite (this way it can't be used on large squads of marines).
- The marine it hits has his gun randomally placed on the ground around him.
- Deals 10 damage(it hits the gun, not the marine)
- If some diehard wants an explantion of why only the fade can knock away guns, it's because only the fade has strong arms to do so...) <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
- It can't knock away your knife.
- The marine hit with this attack will have his view 'skewed' similar to how the knife used to back in 1.0x. (Promote the confusion)
Against a lone shotgunner, he will be toast; the pullout time of the SG will be enough for a lone fade to continually knock away his gun while beating him senseless. Against a lone HMG/HA, the fade will have a hard time winning by himself, but even with skulk backup the skulks will have enough time to get in the bites nessary to kill the HA marine.
In large fights between aliens and marines, several things could happen in the choas plus a fade:
- A marine who looses his gun may not be able to find his gun admist the frenzy
- A marine who looses his gun may have it picked up by another marine, who could be slowed down or confused by the aspect of picking up a GL or HMG dispite the fact none of the marines died; the weapon may fall into the hands of a weaker marine(a LA marine, or a marine who's aim isn't as good).
- The gun may fall into a spot that is hard to reach without some good footwork; i. e. at the bottem of a pit, in water, next to your friendly onos, etc.
But, anyhow, something needs to be done with metabolize, currently it's a really craptacular ability.
EDIT:
Also, swipe should be stronger at 85 points of damage, this way, a marine can't get lv. 1 armor and get a 50% life expectancy against a fade. He will need lv. 2 armor.
To prove this, look no farther than at most NS games:
Every class on the alien team pretty much needs to be used. The onos is a real nessesity to wrap up a game(you need something that can withstand massive amounts of abuse), the lerk is nessesary if they have big guns(umbra, spores break up big formations) the gorge is a requirement(duh), you start as a skulk... but getting a fade doesn't help to guarentee much, other than the fact that he can... kill stuff... uh yeah.
Getting the fade before the marines start to get a lot of research is useful, but only against bad teams... as marine teams learn to adapt marine tech comes faster, 1-2 shotties happen to be in every squad, and as a result, fades die <b>very</b> fast against unless you are good with the fade. I'd say the fade is the hardest class in the game to play well at the moment.
I think fade's should do stuff like focus on causing confusion within marine ranks. That's one role that isn't fufilled by other classes, and the fade already has 2 abilities which are geared towards confusion and allowing others to live longer due to this confusion:
- Blink, hard to hit, blinking fades also pose a real threat; they could pop in your face and kill you if you choose to ignore them.
- Acid Rocket, hard to kill the enemies close by when being nailed from afar by an attack which can kill you very fast. Although, Acid Rocket could use a *slight* boost to it's power at the moment.
The fade's midgame ability, metabolize, is pretty useless. It doesn't help you live longer in the majority of most situations, the healing is slow, and it's redundant(regenerating HP is already an upgrade..).
So this pretty much sums up the problem.
One solution I see towards making Fade's a larger threat at the midgame level is to replace metabolize, and to give them a new ability that would promote confusion and allow other classes to make use of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Disarm in some way
Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone else has stated, I happen to agree with this in all of it's entireity. The idea behind this is simple; it causes confusion, giving all nearby aliens increased survivibilty. This attack would operate as follows:
- The attack takes little adren to use(so usuing it and blink won't be impossible to do).
- Has a one second cooldown, similar to bite (this way it can't be used on large squads of marines).
- The marine it hits has his gun randomally placed on the ground around him.
- Deals 10 damage(it hits the gun, not the marine)
- If some diehard wants an explantion of why only the fade can knock away guns, it's because only the fade has strong arms to do so...) <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
- It can't knock away your knife.
- The marine hit with this attack will have his view 'skewed' similar to how the knife used to back in 1.0x. (Promote the confusion)
Against a lone shotgunner, he will be toast; the pullout time of the SG will be enough for a lone fade to continually knock away his gun while beating him senseless. Against a lone HMG/HA, the fade will have a hard time winning by himself, but even with skulk backup the skulks will have enough time to get in the bites nessary to kill the HA marine.
In large fights between aliens and marines, several things could happen in the choas plus a fade:
- A marine who looses his gun may not be able to find his gun admist the frenzy
- A marine who looses his gun may have it picked up by another marine, who could be slowed down or confused by the aspect of picking up a GL or HMG dispite the fact none of the marines died; the weapon may fall into the hands of a weaker marine(a LA marine, or a marine who's aim isn't as good).
- The gun may fall into a spot that is hard to reach without some good footwork; i. e. at the bottem of a pit, in water, next to your friendly onos, etc.
But, anyhow, something needs to be done with metabolize, currently it's a really craptacular ability.
EDIT:
Also, swipe should be stronger at 85 points of damage, this way, a marine can't get lv. 1 armor and get a 50% life expectancy against a fade. He will need lv. 2 armor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know about you but i don't even get hit by shotty's :/ just blink, bunny and swipe with celerity <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Like swipe, just throws enemy wpn away, slow attackspeed, like onos devour. Works if you get close to one of two marines with big guns.
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LOL
Dude... providing the marines are good shots, they will hit you, and you will die in 3 shots...
It was only a matter of time before people realized that umbra was god damn invincibility, and that his spikes were hit-scan, not what the animation showed. And yeah, he could bite if someone got close.
Got any neato tricks with the fade?
Fades are hardly useless. A fade early game absolutely DEVASTATES any marine groups trying to advance and mid game with umbra support a fade can basically keep marines pinned in their spawn.
I have heard a lot of talk about 2 different aspects of the fade. 1st of all, the aliens dont get an effective long range counter to HA until hive 3. Second of all, Metabolize (though a useful hive 2 ability) when given as a healing option creates an almost useless slot for the regeneration fades.
My solution involves a new skill for the Fade - a life leaching swipe. Against early marines, the Fade would have blink and swipe. for mid game he could have a (perhaps slightly toned down) acid rocket, and for end game he could have a weaker swipe that takes a portion of damage done and converts it into health. Of course it could only convert "life" of a marine (not damage done to armour) so a heavy marine wouldn't give near as much life to the attacking fade, but it would give the fade an advantage in the event of a med spam, without necessarily making him overpowered. I could invision attacking HA's with regular swipe, and saving the chewey morsel LA's for mid battle regen purposes. Just an Idea - might make the fade a little better to play again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It was only a matter of time before people realized that umbra was god damn invincibility, and that his spikes were hit-scan, not what the animation showed. And yeah, he could bite if someone got close.
Got any neato tricks with the fade? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah try playing the fade like a 1.0x lerk (fly+bite/blink+slash)
I was really curious how the old Metabolize would work out when I heard about it on beta(one-second invurnerability which transfers damage to energy). Fades could bypass grenade spam, take out mines, and close the distance easier. I heard it was very bugged though so I don't know if Flayra ever got it working properly before replacing it... If it works, I would really like to see it tried again for a 2.1 beta version just to see how it fits in now.
At any rate I think the Fade's one true problem is a lack of purpose in the non-3-hive late game if you ask me. Against HAs it's just too dangerous to attempt a real attack and turret farms with at least one marine defending them are a risky proposition at best. Leap, Umbra, Bile Bomb, and Stomp are all very important abilities for the aliens yet Metabolize sticks out because it primarily enhances the Fade's early/mid game purpose. I'm not honestly sure how much the old Metabolize would help that but I think something should be done to Metabolize to give Fades a role to play later on if 3 hives aren't possible(though hopefully not make them more powerful in what they already do).
Zek, this is exactly the point I have been trying to make.
I do think that fade's would be a hell of a lot more useful if their basic attack was stronger (the fact they are so weak doesn't help to define them seperatly from skulks), and if metabolize was replaced.(Disarm!)