Ive seen seen those with there hands down there pants sya its easy to counter by:
A: Sending out packs of rines walking around the map (lmg vs ambushing skulks ne1? No? who guards the res rines get up? Electrify? But you say its n00b to drop a tf at spawn?)
b: Leave one rine at spawn building. Yip one rine no tf vs skulk rush. Yip. Brilliant.
Easily coutnered, you guys are so right.
Alien ownage = 4 gorgs at start + 4 skulks. Havent decided which chamber is better as they all can own.
(a sens os best but only with skulks who lie in ambush)
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
Early shotguns will kill Gorges, Lerks or Skulks in one or two shots. They'll kill a Res node in about 10 shots.
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance.
<!--QuoteBegin--Grendel+Aug 17 2003, 08:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Aug 17 2003, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Early shotguns will kill Gorges, Lerks or Skulks in one or two shots. They'll kill a Res node in about 10 shots.
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Shh!
You'll give them ideas. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Tempus+Aug 17 2003, 05:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tempus @ Aug 17 2003, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hunting down these gorges before they put up their res nodes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no no no, just after <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Grendel+Aug 17 2003, 08:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Aug 17 2003, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Early shotguns will kill Gorges, Lerks or Skulks in one or two shots. They'll kill a Res node in about 10 shots.
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never seen a comm give out even a single shotgun with only one res node. Though the idea seems sound.
Comms always seem to give out guns and HA in big clumps, probably because it prevents bitching. "You gave him a shotgun!!! Why not me!?! Wahhh!!!!"
I like my little LMG. I'm probably better with that useless hunk of junk than I am with anything else. I don't mind being cannon fodder either, if it'll get us some res nodes. I'd like to see a plan like that work.
Just a quick point, alien rts cost less becuase they cannot be electrified, thus they require an oc for static defence or some skulks to keep an eye on them. Also aliens get a res advantage so that if one person or more decides they want an onos rather than 3 hives, it doesn't #$%^ the ame for the entire team.
Don't like it? Kill those RTs with a shotty, it takes only six or so shots.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Aug 17 2003, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Aug 17 2003, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just a quick point, alien rts cost less becuase they cannot be electrified, thus they require an oc for static defence or some skulks to keep an eye on them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Electrifying an rt costs more than an OC. I think elec is 25 per building, with an OC being 10. It's only automatic on modded servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also aliens get a res advantage so that if one person or more decides they want an onos rather than 3 hives, it doesn't #$%^ the ame for the entire team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->This seems akin to Marines going Rambo. Except they DO #$%^ the game for us, because your extra res still goes towards strong units, while we don't have the organization we <b>need</b> to win.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't like it? Kill those RTs with a shotty, it takes only six or so shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maybe I've been REALLY unlucky in games lately, but when I'm on RT-Killing teams, we always seem to get repeatedly slaughtered by Skulks, with those things pumping aliens res all the while.
I really just dont get why marines have such a hard time with skulks. Your looking at a critter that takes 11 hits with a basic LMG to kill. Marines have had a RoF increase and the muzzle flash dramticly cut.
The problem I see is that marines allow skulks to "set em up". They dont clear corners, vents and arches. They dont practice keeping good clear fireing lanes and most marines like to cut in front of each other thuse blocking each others shots.
<!--QuoteBegin--Trojan2+Aug 17 2003, 11:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Aug 17 2003, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem I see is that marines allow skulks to "set em up". They dont clear corners, vents and arches. They dont practice keeping good clear fireing lanes and most marines like to cut in front of each other thuse blocking each others shots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I ALWAYS check corners. I liked being a skulk and I'd like to hide on the other side of archways, I know to look <b>there</b>. We don't LET them set us up, they have the advantage. Take the balconies you pass on the way to triad in, skulks cling to the walls and wait for you to pass through the narrow halls. A large group of marines would all have to walk single file (which would be the most useless tactic if the aliens made a frontal assault instead) to even get a lead on them, and they'd all have to be very wise to know to do this without instructions. We can't see them unless we peer over, and then we're dead, what am I supposed to do? Type in a little message saying things like "Walk single file guys", "look in my direction, pay attention, I'll look over the rail and if they kill me, shoot them" ? It takes too long, and it's just not feasible.
By the way, how can we "clear" a vent? They are dark, they are almost always above our line of sight, and skulks can easily hide around a corner and be on you only a fraction of a second later for it.
Skulks don't need to know about fireing lanes and crap. Why should marines require constant vigilance to win while the aliens only need small teams of average players?
Yes... electrified RTs. 20 res for the RT, 30 for the electricity. How totally affordable. Besides, by the time you get your 4th electrified RT, they'll have 2 hives and they'll be bile bombing them already. Then you'll send marines to kill the gorge(s) and they'll be ambushed by fades. I know, it happened to me. 50 res for 1 freaking RT. How will you upgrade, tech up, drop better weapons and keep your men alive on the field with ammo/health at the same time? It's simple: you won't.
Just think about it. You need to to spend a total of 50 res on a tower just so 1 bloody skulk won't chew it down on his own. A gorge basically needs to drop the RT, and perhaps 1 OC (if it's somewhat close to marine start), total of 25 res. Hive sight, hive warnings and self-heal will do the rest.
It's amazing how many people in this thread say how it's almost easy to stop the ultra fast alien expansion. People, if it were, Flayra probably wouldn't have started working on the 2.01 patches so soon now would he?
Also: stock marines don't own gorges anymore, it's the other way around. Ditch the heal spray, try the new spit on steroids.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flash(Frog)+Aug 17 2003, 11:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flash(Frog) @ Aug 17 2003, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe I've been REALLY unlucky in games lately, but when I'm on RT-Killing teams, we always seem to get repeatedly slaughtered by Skulks, with those things pumping aliens res all the while. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Probably becuase you knife the tower right? Don't bother, shoot it, and never kill an rt alone. Always bring someone to cover, and someone to shoot the rt/knife it with you. If that still doesn't work well then you need some new marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Remember, if you increase the cost of RTs on the aliens side, you're going to be back to the point where the ENITRE alien team is popping out of vents in your base to chew on marines to get the RFK necessary to start the alien expansion. And for those of you who weren't around in early 1.x to see what entire team skulk rushes could do - its a nasty and very bloody thing, and if you don't have a comm in the chair right away, you're in a lot of trouble. Against experienced skulk rushes, the game might well be over right then and there.
The fact that the aliens have something to do other than rush you is a good thing. Be thankful for it, because it lets you take the initiative more often than not.
<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Aug 17 2003, 01:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Aug 17 2003, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Blah blah extending game blah blah lamer blah blah nub <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> After that rush, the Marines put up one of the best ffights I've seen. We were perfectly matched. We were in danger of losing more than one hive at several points in the games. It was being tossed back and forth. It was like a good ol' 1.04 game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact that the aliens have something to do other than rush you is a good thing. Be thankful for it, because it lets you take the initiative more often than not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I know exactly what you are talking about, and in case you are wondering, that has a great deal to do with why I am a whiny little "b" tonight. It was a four on four game in bast, one guy took comm, one guy wisely decided to guard, me and the other guy built the ip. We didn't even get the damn thing up. The skulks came in through the vent. I barely got a couple shots off, I would've been better off running.
If in every game, the entire alien team decided to rush you as skulks, they could conceiveably win every game. I think the only reason people don't is because they want to win as Onos and Fade and junk, it's not as much fun. I personally like building as a gorge. This feels alot like the aliens are LETTING THE MARINES WIN.
I can't see why every clan game with organized groups doesn't end this way. They must be MUCH better shots as marines than me or any average player.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember, if you increase the cost of RTs on the aliens side, you're going to be back to the point where the ENITRE alien team is popping out of vents in your base to chew on marines to get the RFK necessary to start the alien expansion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That arguement is kinda flawed, if they can decimate you that way, why bother to expand? I think that ultimately goes with what I said before: Skulk Rush == Own you seem to be saying that making stuff more expensive would make all players more likely to realize that this is the way to win. You are probably right. But I may have misinterpreted your point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you don't have a comm in the chair right away, you're in a lot of trouble.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The comm chair is like the proverbial hot potato, like I said before, nobody wants it, its a big responsibility, and even if a new player wants to learn it, the learning curve is bloody STEEP.
Knife the tower? Hell no. I don't even bother trying that anymore, but since I've NEVER had a comm give me ammo in the field, I'm forced to armory-hump to even stand a chance. I don't even settle for filling my LMG. The pistol get filled too.
I've had teams of FIVE die to two skulks: two build, three guard. Sometimes... it works for the guards to scatter in the room and get the skulks from afar, but in places like horseshoe, and ENTIRE MAPS like lost, it's just not feasible.
So, fellow Commanders, what do u do with ure initial 100 res at the start of a round?
I usually get:
-1 IP -1 armoury -2 packs of mines -1 Obs -1 RT (close to base)
i havent remebered the 2.0 costs off by heart, but i think thats about 100 res, give or take. i like the idea of shottie rushies, but i dont know what to forgo on that list to get them.
(i cant really loose the mines cos im a nice com - i wont ask a marine to cover the base for the length of the game. video games are meant to be fun, defending my sorry **** and the comm chair isnt)
<!--QuoteBegin--Garet Jax+Aug 17 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Aug 17 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is all because the aliens start with a whopping 25 res, so on a relatively smal 8x8 game, the alien team starts with 200 res points - twice as much as the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there is no point is debating this with you, because you don't understand the res pool system, so making any attempt would be a waste.
<!--QuoteBegin--Garet Jax+Aug 18 2003, 02:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Aug 18 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> some good replys coming in.
So, fellow Commanders, what do u do with ure initial 100 res at the start of a round?
I usually get:
-1 IP -1 armoury -2 packs of mines -1 Obs -1 RT (close to base)
i havent remebered the 2.0 costs off by heart, but i think thats about 100 res, give or take. i like the idea of shottie rushies, but i dont know what to forgo on that list to get them.
(i cant really loose the mines cos im a nice com - i wont ask a marine to cover the base for the length of the game. video games are meant to be fun, defending my sorry **** and the comm chair isnt)
-Seraph <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 IP 1 TF 4 Turrets Some Res nodes
<i>then</i>, when things have settled down, I will get an armory. You don't need it until then, and people spend too much time humping it instead of out hunting gorges.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 18 2003, 02:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 18 2003, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Garet Jax+Aug 17 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Aug 17 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is all because the aliens start with a whopping 25 res, so on a relatively smal 8x8 game, the alien team starts with 200 res points - twice as much as the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there is no point is debating this with you, because you don't understand the res pool system, so making any attempt would be a waste. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oooh have you! (/waves hand in a camp manor)
i know how the res system works.
that wasnt the point. it was that marines (usually) spend all initial res on buildings, and dont have any upgrades in the 1st couple of minutes. the aliens, only have to drop 3 chambers, then can use their res on the (cheaper) alien RTs.
using this method they can have Rocket Skulks (via MCs) at the start, with an 8 res income per tick. they also gain more res when slaughtering the vanilla marines.
there's one (twofold) reason Jax's original post is right: the marines don't KNOW what strategy the aliens are gonna use. The 2 usual scenarios are these:
1) The aliens mostly go gorge and drop RTs.
a) Defensive com: He TFs base/goes after close by res nodes. He'll lose the res battle, and soon will be seeing "3 vs. 6" in the upper-left corner of his screen.
b) Offensive com: He sends out a gorge hunting party, they pwn, the res flow soon turns out in their favor.
2) The aliens mostly stay skulk and rush marine start:
a) Defensive com: His turrets and armory humpers score a nice wave of free RFK.
b) Offensive com: His gorge-hunting party comes up empty-handed, and the 2 men he left at base to guard are overrun with skulks they can't possibly fight off.
in other words, it's a gamble, and it's not weighted toward the marines, to say the least...
Offensive com - armory, 7 shotties. Marines rush hive, hive dead in 20 seconds.
Strategic com - observatory, scans hives / etc while marines defend base and 1 res node - plans rest of game based on intel. (Or sends out 1-2 marines to scout.
<!--QuoteBegin--Garet Jax+Aug 18 2003, 02:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Aug 18 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, fellow Commanders, what do u do with ure initial 100 res at the start of a round?
I usually get:
-1 IP -1 armoury -2 packs of mines -1 Obs -1 RT (close to base) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 IP, 1 armoury, 1 obs, 1 shotgun (for base def), phase tech, the rest on nodes.
a bit more risky can be to use shotguns for gorge hunting and RT demolishing, a shotty can tear a good chunk of HP out of most chambers before it has to reload, but this comes with the danger of losing the shotgun(s) and the res invested.
Overall, i don't think the game needs rebalancing, maybe slow the speed with which aliens can get new lifeforms a little or speed marine teching up a bit, although this is more likely to cause marines becoming unbalanced.
Comments
A: Sending out packs of rines walking around the map (lmg vs ambushing skulks ne1? No? who guards the res rines get up? Electrify? But you say its n00b to drop a tf at spawn?)
b: Leave one rine at spawn building. Yip one rine no tf vs skulk rush. Yip. Brilliant.
Easily coutnered, you guys are so right.
Alien ownage = 4 gorgs at start + 4 skulks.
Havent decided which chamber is better as they all can own.
(a sens os best but only with skulks who lie in ambush)
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance.
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shh!
You'll give them ideas. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
no no no, just after <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's pretty swift. Just send some LMG equipped guys out to cover him and destroy their nodes and gorges. With no res flow Kharaa become little more than a nuisance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never seen a comm give out even a single shotgun with only one res node. Though the idea seems sound.
Comms always seem to give out guns and HA in big clumps, probably because it prevents bitching. "You gave him a shotgun!!! Why not me!?! Wahhh!!!!"
I like my little LMG. I'm probably better with that useless hunk of junk than I am with anything else. I don't mind being cannon fodder either, if it'll get us some res nodes. I'd like to see a plan like that work.
Don't like it? Kill those RTs with a shotty, it takes only six or so shots.
Electrifying an rt costs more than an OC. I think elec is 25 per building, with an OC being 10. It's only automatic on modded servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also aliens get a res advantage so that if one person or more decides they want an onos rather than 3 hives, it doesn't #$%^ the ame for the entire team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->This seems akin to Marines going Rambo. Except they DO #$%^ the game for us, because your extra res still goes towards strong units, while we don't have the organization we <b>need</b> to win.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't like it? Kill those RTs with a shotty, it takes only six or so shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maybe I've been REALLY unlucky in games lately, but when I'm on RT-Killing teams, we always seem to get repeatedly slaughtered by Skulks, with those things pumping aliens res all the while.
The problem I see is that marines allow skulks to "set em up". They dont clear corners, vents and arches. They dont practice keeping good clear fireing lanes and most marines like to cut in front of each other thuse blocking each others shots.
I ALWAYS check corners. I liked being a skulk and I'd like to hide on the other side of archways, I know to look <b>there</b>. We don't LET them set us up, they have the advantage. Take the balconies you pass on the way to triad in, skulks cling to the walls and wait for you to pass through the narrow halls. A large group of marines would all have to walk single file (which would be the most useless tactic if the aliens made a frontal assault instead) to even get a lead on them, and they'd all have to be very wise to know to do this without instructions. We can't see them unless we peer over, and then we're dead, what am I supposed to do? Type in a little message saying things like "Walk single file guys", "look in my direction, pay attention, I'll look over the rail and if they kill me, shoot them" ? It takes too long, and it's just not feasible.
By the way, how can we "clear" a vent? They are dark, they are almost always above our line of sight, and skulks can easily hide around a corner and be on you only a fraction of a second later for it.
Skulks don't need to know about fireing lanes and crap. Why should marines require constant vigilance to win while the aliens only need small teams of average players?
Just think about it. You need to to spend a total of 50 res on a tower just so 1 bloody skulk won't chew it down on his own. A gorge basically needs to drop the RT, and perhaps 1 OC (if it's somewhat close to marine start), total of 25 res. Hive sight, hive warnings and self-heal will do the rest.
It's amazing how many people in this thread say how it's almost easy to stop the ultra fast alien expansion. People, if it were, Flayra probably wouldn't have started working on the 2.01 patches so soon now would he?
Also: stock marines don't own gorges anymore, it's the other way around. Ditch the heal spray, try the new spit on steroids.
Probably becuase you knife the tower right? Don't bother, shoot it, and never kill an rt alone. Always bring someone to cover, and someone to shoot the rt/knife it with you. If that still doesn't work well then you need some new marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The fact that the aliens have something to do other than rush you is a good thing. Be thankful for it, because it lets you take the initiative more often than not.
After that rush, the Marines put up one of the best ffights I've seen. We were perfectly matched. We were in danger of losing more than one hive at several points in the games. It was being tossed back and forth. It was like a good ol' 1.04 game.
If in every game, the entire alien team decided to rush you as skulks, they could conceiveably win every game. I think the only reason people don't is because they want to win as Onos and Fade and junk, it's not as much fun. I personally like building as a gorge. This feels alot like the aliens are LETTING THE MARINES WIN.
I can't see why every clan game with organized groups doesn't end this way. They must be MUCH better shots as marines than me or any average player.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember, if you increase the cost of RTs on the aliens side, you're going to be back to the point where the ENITRE alien team is popping out of vents in your base to chew on marines to get the RFK necessary to start the alien expansion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That arguement is kinda flawed, if they can decimate you that way, why bother to expand? I think that ultimately goes with what I said before:
Skulk Rush == Own
you seem to be saying that making stuff more expensive would make all players more likely to realize that this is the way to win. You are probably right. But I may have misinterpreted your point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you don't have a comm in the chair right away, you're in a lot of trouble.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The comm chair is like the proverbial hot potato, like I said before, nobody wants it, its a big responsibility, and even if a new player wants to learn it, the learning curve is bloody STEEP.
Knife the tower? Hell no. I don't even bother trying that anymore, but since I've NEVER had a comm give me ammo in the field, I'm forced to armory-hump to even stand a chance. I don't even settle for filling my LMG. The pistol get filled too.
I've had teams of FIVE die to two skulks: two build, three guard. Sometimes... it works for the guards to scatter in the room and get the skulks from afar, but in places like horseshoe, and ENTIRE MAPS like lost, it's just not feasible.
So, fellow Commanders, what do u do with ure initial 100 res at the start of a round?
I usually get:
-1 IP
-1 armoury
-2 packs of mines
-1 Obs
-1 RT (close to base)
i havent remebered the 2.0 costs off by heart, but i think thats about 100 res, give or take. i like the idea of shottie rushies, but i dont know what to forgo on that list to get them.
(i cant really loose the mines cos im a nice com - i wont ask a marine to cover the base for the length of the game. video games are meant to be fun, defending my sorry **** and the comm chair isnt)
-Seraph
This is all because the aliens start with a whopping 25 res, so on a relatively smal 8x8 game, the alien team starts with 200 res points - twice as much as the marines.
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there is no point is debating this with you, because you don't understand the res pool system, so making any attempt would be a waste.
So, fellow Commanders, what do u do with ure initial 100 res at the start of a round?
I usually get:
-1 IP
-1 armoury
-2 packs of mines
-1 Obs
-1 RT (close to base)
i havent remebered the 2.0 costs off by heart, but i think thats about 100 res, give or take. i like the idea of shottie rushies, but i dont know what to forgo on that list to get them.
(i cant really loose the mines cos im a nice com - i wont ask a marine to cover the base for the length of the game. video games are meant to be fun, defending my sorry **** and the comm chair isnt)
-Seraph <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 IP
1 TF
4 Turrets
Some Res nodes
<i>then</i>, when things have settled down, I will get an armory. You don't need it until then, and people spend too much time humping it instead of out hunting gorges.
This is all because the aliens start with a whopping 25 res, so on a relatively smal 8x8 game, the alien team starts with 200 res points - twice as much as the marines.
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there is no point is debating this with you, because you don't understand the res pool system, so making any attempt would be a waste. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oooh have you! (/waves hand in a camp manor)
i know how the res system works.
that wasnt the point. it was that marines (usually) spend all initial res on buildings, and dont have any upgrades in the 1st couple of minutes. the aliens, only have to drop 3 chambers, then can use their res on the (cheaper) alien RTs.
using this method they can have Rocket Skulks (via MCs) at the start, with an 8 res income per tick. they also gain more res when slaughtering the vanilla marines.
-Seraph
1) The aliens mostly go gorge and drop RTs.
a) Defensive com: He TFs base/goes after close by res nodes. He'll lose the res battle, and soon will be seeing "3 vs. 6" in the upper-left corner of his screen.
b) Offensive com: He sends out a gorge hunting party, they pwn, the res flow soon turns out in their favor.
2) The aliens mostly stay skulk and rush marine start:
a) Defensive com: His turrets and armory humpers score a nice wave of free RFK.
b) Offensive com: His gorge-hunting party comes up empty-handed, and the 2 men he left at base to guard are overrun with skulks they can't possibly fight off.
in other words, it's a gamble, and it's not weighted toward the marines, to say the least...
Strategic com - observatory, scans hives / etc while marines defend base and 1 res node - plans rest of game based on intel. (Or sends out 1-2 marines to scout.
I usually get:
-1 IP
-1 armoury
-2 packs of mines
-1 Obs
-1 RT (close to base) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 IP, 1 armoury, 1 obs, 1 shotgun (for base def), phase tech, the rest on nodes.
Overall, i don't think the game needs rebalancing, maybe slow the speed with which aliens can get new lifeforms a little or speed marine teching up a bit, although this is more likely to cause marines becoming unbalanced.