The Jetpack Is Overpowered

Ollj · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">the same way the shootgun is...</div> ... in NO WAY.

BUT as soon as comms drop jetpacks regulary and ppl stay together, even in mixed teams, and leran to fly out of umbra and hunt oni, people will scream that the jetpack is overpowered !!!

Its both overpowered <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> simply because it defeats sensory chambers and onoses (alien expansion) just by attacking it in a group.
All it needs is a few comms that defend with turrets and attack with jp/gl/shootgun and we will have masses of players that moan "the jp is as overpowered as the shootgun" just when they learned to use it.
Trust me, it took some time till NSPlayers learned to use the JP in 1.04, they will learn and they will moan.
You might say JP is too expensive? The simple reason why JP so expensive is, that it counters oni, wich is so expensive, too.

btw jetpacks and shootguns get counted by defense chambers, lerks and healpray, its called defense, might be something new for most of the new aliens around here.
Really, Shootguns aint overpowered, lerarn to ..... defend!

Spazmatic · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>btw jetpacks and shootguns get counted by defense chambers, lerks and healpray, its called defense, might be something new for most of the new aliens around here.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Jetpacks are countered by certain maps, where the unique architecture gives lots of opportunities for oni to jump devour, or jump gore. They're also countered by webs, WoLs (which are risky since to block a jetpacker you'd have to block oni), lerks, blinking fades (honestly), kinda by gorges... Xenocide, acid rocket, and cloaked onos who stomp when you land.

That said, the problem with groups of jetpackers is that they get utterly annihilated by OCs... It seems to me (and probably most people!) that if it's an option, screw HA trains and screw jetpacker squadrons... Combined arms. If you think raw jetpacks are bad, imagine using them as scouts/support for a heavy armor train...

GoldenShadow · August 2003

the last game i commed I handed out an equal number of jetpacks and heavy armors

Juchel_Zero · August 2003

Nice golden, I want to be one of your marines <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

pardzh · August 2003

I think the real problem with shotties is their cost.

They're kind of easy to counter if you have the res to go lerk, but the problem with that is that the Marines can have 5+ shotties heading to your hive by the time you have one single lerk to spore them. That's not enough to keep them back, especially when that lerk gets pounded by your Marines in two shots.

Maybe a boost of the shotgun cost to 15 but not touching rof/damage would be a good change.

FlashFrog · August 2003

Hmm. I never felt like the shotgun gave me any extra advantage, except maybe against small numbers of skulks... If the comm was handing out shotguns to everybody, I'd usually prefer to keep my LMG, since that's the only thing I'm even average with. I believe that it is possible to have too much of a good thing, like Spazmatic said, there's alot to be said for a diverse team of marines.

Lucid · August 2003

Jetpacks might be more fun and useful if the boost was increased but the feul decresed. As it is now you cannot manuver with a jetpack. And its not a counter to an onos unless you are in a room with really high ceilings. Here's an example: I was playing a game where a fellow jetpacker was sitting in the vent that leads to red room and overlooks viaduct hive. An onos jumped up and devouered him. Then I was hovering close to the ceiling in the hallway right next to that, and the onos jumped up and gored me to death.

Sirus · August 2003

Well Duff, that certainly makes sense, but you're forgetting something. You're saying that 5 shotgun marines can't be countered by just one lerk. The marines are pretty much sacrificing all their resources in one squad, and one alien player just isn't enough. It makes sense. Out of the usual 6+ players, 2 people have to sacrifice their resources in order to counter it. It's not that much to ask.

So if you're trying to counter the entire marines resource pool, it should take more than just one alien using 30 res.

ATI · August 2003

Sirus is right, one lerk vs. 5 marines with shotguns isn't ever giong to get the lerk anywhere. Shotguns are good and i don't see why they need to be changed as of right now. Shotguns don't really seem to turn tides all that much from what I have played. Try using more diverse tactics, and don't use vacuum sealed tactics as proving a point. Your right that one lerk can't beat 5 marines with a shotgun.....one lerk can't beat 5 marines with only pistols. That doesn't prove that shotguns are bad, it proves that the alien team should even those numbers. The aliens if they have 3-5 lerks could probably take down the 5 marines. Now that resource wise isn't even from 0 resources (30 i think to go lerk) but the aliens start with 25 res each alien (from what I read at leats ) meaning that you only need 5 res for each alien to go lerk. Thats only 5 per alien. Each marine for a shotgun from teh beginning needs 10 res per marine. THe res trade-off now is more scaled against the marines. That might have been really confusing, but think about it for a second it makes sense. Either rate, shotgun isn't really over powered, and the aliens can solve that problem quickly.

EighteenTwelve · August 2003

K, while I agree with your topic.. shotguns. Seriously man, let's try spelling this right. Shotguns. Not shoot, shot. Ok? Thanks for your time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Shockeh · August 2003

Yeah, JP being the official Onos counter is all well & good, but by & large, the JPer can't get any further away than a LA can.

This isn't due to the JP in any way, just simply by virtue of what NS maps are <b>like</b>

Spazmatic · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This isn't due to the JP in any way, just simply by virtue of what NS maps are like </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

My point exactly. Some maps are much worse than others (ones with lots of ceiling architecture).

Eplekongen · August 2003

if you have 6 marines with shotguns, you should be required to have 6 aliens to kill them. A lerk to spore and sume skulks to eat.

MrKNifey · August 2003

The people whining about JPs being overpowered obviously have NO idea how hard it is to stay airborne for long with the 2.0 flight model. Go try using JPs in a game, and come back and say it's overpowered then.

And BTW, it's Jumppacks, not jetpacks. You can't really fly anymore per se.

Haze · August 2003

What is this shootgun?

Cry_Havoc · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (#Ha.Ze- @ Aug 16 2003, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What is this shootgun?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Any gun.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

MrKNifey · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cry Havoc @ Aug 16 2003, 10:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (#Ha.Ze- @ Aug 16 2003, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What is this shootgun? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Any gun.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
OMG! THET MAENS AL GUNZ R OERPWERD!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

pardzh · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 16 2003, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well Duff, that certainly makes sense, but you're forgetting something. You're saying that 5 shotgun marines can't be countered by just one lerk. The marines are pretty much sacrificing all their resources in one squad, and one alien player just isn't enough. It makes sense. Out of the usual 6+ players, 2 people have to sacrifice their resources in order to counter it. It's not that much to ask.

So if you're trying to counter the entire marines resource pool, it should take more than just one alien using 30 res.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'm a tad late here, but you're missing my point.

Aliens can either use their res early game or save it. Generally ~4 skulks use up their res early game, 1 skulks to Onos, one skulks for the Hive. Along comes our 40 RP shotty rush. They rip through the defenses outside the Hive with not nearly enough trouble as they should have. Those two skulks that have the res to go lerk do so and save the hive, woopie for Aliens. Note that this would be an optimal situation, let's not get into what happens when selfish pub players don't want to save their hive and want to go Onos instead.

Well okay, that's over. The Marines are down probably 60 res, what with the 40 for shotties, some RP's for medspam, some ammo, but also taking into account the 900 skulks they probably blasted and got res for kills. While all this was happening on one side of the map, the commander's nodemonkey just capped every other res node avaliable to Marines and the 60 RP deficit is suddenly nothing. The Aliens are down probably a res node, 3 or so oc's, and an RT. In addition to that, they no longer have the reliable Onos support for the endgame or the guarrantee that they're going to get that hive up in time to counter the Marines rapid teching.

I know we all think Aliens are a little overpowered at the moment, and that can be the case. But I've seen the above happen too many times on pubs, pugs, and scrims, and it's annoying that one set of four shotguns can impact the game so much when in the hands of decent players.

KaMiKaZe1 · August 2003

I have never in any way noticed shotguns to be overpowered. They have, however, become the new swiss army knife of the marines. I think that the lowering of shotgun ammo to 8/40, along with the removal of piercing damage on the HMG will remove this problem completely.

I don't see jetpacks used much at all, I think the 35 research and 15 per jp costs might be a tad too high.

Meh, my two Canadian cents. (worthless)

Electrical_Tape · August 2003

double post

Electrical_Tape · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I have never in any way noticed shotguns to be overpowered. They have, however, become the new swiss army knife of the marines. I think that the lowering of shotgun ammo to 8/40, along with the removal of piercing damage on the HMG will remove this problem completely.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The HMGs piercing damage was not removed, it was reinstated.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I don't see jetpacks used much at all, I think the 35 research and 15 per jp costs might be a tad too high.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes, Nerfpacks are indeed to expensive. Hell, if the prices were reduced to 1.04 values (25/9) with the 2.0 functionality remaining, it would still be overpriced. Those who have been lucky (or maybe unlucky?) enough to have tryed the 2.0 JP, know that its more of a toy than a real piece of tacticle equipment. If the JPs were lessened to 20/5... maybe we would start to see them played more often... but unlikely.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Meh, my two Canadian cents. (worthless)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

The Jetpack Is Overpowered

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