One Reason Why Aliens Could Be Winning So Much...

HuntyHunty Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The infamous 12 minute mark.</div> Now i cannot say this is the case for all servers.Ive just noticed this for my local servers.In most cases,the marines take a downturn around the 12 minute mark where the most pro skulk will go onos and pick redempt.This renders the onos pratically invulnerable.

I just played a scrim game,3 rounds on veil,1 round on origin with a 13 regulars.These people are not newbies.In all 4 rounds,aliens won.The first round on veil saw the mariines coming within minutes of HA/shotty squads but at the 11:30 mark the onos came in and wiped out all our rts and kept goring the marines and redemping.We ended up not having res to do the ha rush.The 2nd round had marines getting owned by cara skulks till onos at about 11-12 minute mark,GG.3rd round had celerity skulks totally demolish the marines,game over in 4 minutes.The round on origin was the most interesting though.It got me thinking about the onos.Ive seen this happen all the time on the pubs.Marines would start to own aliens with high tech,then at the 11-12 minute mark they would get owned in 3-4s by the singular onos with redempt.On that round the marines were able to hold their own against the skulks.Their RTs werent attacked very often by the skulks,helping them some.They took vent hive down with level 3 weapons about the 10-11 minute mark.Shortly after that,someone went onos with redempt.At this point i was in laser drill securing the rt.The marines discovered it and rushed what seemed to be their entire team over.6 marines with level 3 weaps vs 2 ocs?Then the onos came along.From that point on it didnt matter what the marines did.They would take a hive down with seiges...and the onos just went along and wiped it out.We had enough res flowing in to do whatever we wanted.They jet our hive down,we got it back up as soon as the gorg went there and 8 ocs in our 2 hives rendered jets useless.

Has anyone else noticed this on their servers?The "marines are winning then the onos comes along and they cant do anything" scenarios?
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Comments

  • WindelkronWindelkron Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
    I am telling you it is redemption. I don't care about redeeming while devouring, it's redemption IN GENERAL. A 90% success rate, especially spread over the Onos' longer lifespan under fire, makes redemption Onos nigh invincible. Which means RFK starts working only one way! I think the unbalance of 2.0 is redemption, there I said it, because the marine team simply doesn't have anything INVULNERABLE.
  • Cheez1Cheez1 Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12900Members
    Yes, and oddly enough i discovered it on ns_origin as well. We had everything in the game researched. FULL tech. We had every single res node electrified with about 3 turrets around it just to keep gorges away, we had like 1000 resources that we had nothing to spend on. We took down two hives but then the game became a stalemate because 3 onos rushed our base and took EVERYTHING out. Luckily we emergency relocated to the double node room, cargo storage, which had about 4 elec TF and a kazillion turrets in it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    After rebuilding all essential upgrades we took a look around to see if we lost anything while we were relocating. Guess what. ALL our res nodes but the ones in cargo were GONE. Gored to death. ALL your hives had been taken back and they had 3 again. needless to say, we were ****. We were not nubs, we had used lots of teamplay. We had enough res to do anything we wanted for as long as we wanted. Heck we had blocked off the doors of cargo with elec TF walls!!

    So it went on for about half an hour of GL/Turrets/HA keeping an entire team of onos at bay. I snuck into ventilation with a GL/HA and took it out while a HA/HMG kept the skulks that spawned at bay (this was our third attempt to get ventilation down BTW, we tried a HA train and seiging before, both got run over by charging onos). We were about to seige furnace when the server finally crashed form the 2 1/2 hour game. It just seemed like no matter what we did, we couldn't do anything to stop those redemption onos. Unless of course they devoured us, becuase this was 2.01b. It was just stomp, gore, dead.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    I wonder if making the marines get res when an alien redeems would help the balance.
  • Sgt_DoompySgt_Doompy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19264Members
    edited August 2003
    I had a very similiar experience, being the comm in this game.

    I believe we were on Mineshaft, I went for an early RT gathering. Captured around 2 additional RTs, including a hive. Then setting up a TF at base with some turrets for basic defenses. Kept researching stuff and fighting aliens back, was going pretty good.

    We pushed the aliens back from the double resnode, I didnt want to go there straight away when the game started because aliens almost EXPECT you to go there so its generally not worth it. However we pushed them out by full force and took the 2 resnodes making it a 5 - 3 resnodes in marines favor. Most of the RTs were pretty well defended as well.

    Thats also the point where it went downhill, even though I had been handing shotties and GLs with their additional weapon & armor upgrades, onos kept popping in and killing buildings on different areas of the map. Usually they were defeated fast but not without doing some damage.... they just used redemption and started to attack/devour/kill buildings over & over.

    We were pushed back into the marine base and well... I just sold the IPs since I didnt feel like a big 40 turret /GLs spam endgame.

    - D
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    yeah.. redempting onos is the lamest thing ive ever seen... i mean how could something like this happenb after months of balancing and playtesting? theres really no way how yould stand against 1 onos... 2 of them are whorser .
    you goin to win,and theres 1 onos comming (after the magical timespan) raping your whole team,base,res,because you cant kill this **** hes comming again..and again..what about a longer redemption timespan? long enough to kill this lameasses ,so he have to run away..or something..and then this damn stomp.. it just needs to less adrenaline.. a onos should be limited to 1 or 2 stomps... and then the damn devour... ever realized that you cant stand high enough so he cant get you? a onos can suck you in his belly from more than 5 meters.. or more.. i would love it to knive a onos from the inside of his stomach..... arhh.. using a grenade to blast the sucker with me into 1000 pieces
  • OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
    edited August 2003
    must ... not ... flame ....

    - - -

    must ... stant ... still.... and ... say.....

    Welcome to the NS Forums.

    must... smile ...

    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    res for redeem might worth a try. But 90% "invulnerable" is one group of marines or some marines welding in a turret farm.
  • The_FinchThe_Finch Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Members
    What I'm hearing is, basically, you want redemption to be as useless for the Onos as it is for the other aliens.

    Onos are the only lifeform that redemption works reliably on. The others die too fast for it to kick in. On top of that, redemption is a very inefficient upgrade. It may drastically extend the Onos life, but 90% of that is spent healing at the hive and running back to battle only to be redeemed five seconds after they get there.

    If you think that redemption Oni are bad, just wait until people figure out that regeneration and carapace are far superior upgrades. Very few good Onos players use redemption as their standard DC ability. Most take regeneration, since the 45 hp/tick means they can be ready to fight again in 30 seconds, as opposed to the 1-2 minutes a redemption Onos takes. Redemption is good if you're low on resources and need to keep your Onos alive, but 80% of the time, regen is better.
  • Sgt_DoompySgt_Doompy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19264Members
    Turretfarms dont move around to kill enemy players/buildings <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. A static invul < a moving invul <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->. Besides, the amount of turrets can use a nerf too. The turretfarming is because of those onos I believe.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    Ollj the truth is simply that the algorithm or equation or whatever is used to determine redemption is fundamentally flawed when used on the onos. The reason is that since redemption is working off a percentage of total health, and an onos has 500hp, the redemption always kicks in well before an onos reaches a "critical" level of health. On other lifeforms redemption isn't a big problem because marine firepower can very quickly deal enough damage before redemption has a chance to kick in. For marines to kill a redemption onos, you need to have either one hell of an ambush or just plain luck. You need around 3 shotguns point blank all firing at exactly the same moment. You need 2 clips of grens going off at exactly the same time. Pulling these feats off in game is ridiculously hard to say the very least.

    Yes, redemption oni do die, but the number of times they don't die far far far outweights this. Essentially it's invunerability. Redemption oni really hurt the marine team: "Ah crap an onos fire boys fire! Oh, he dissapeared. Well, we just accomplished jack. He'll be back in a few seconds and the trouble is, he's probably gonna hit us where we arn't." Redemption is a "get out of jail free card" that has a 95% success rate. Most redemption oni when they do die already have 100 res anyway thanks to RFK, so they're coming straight back at you!

    Either disable redemption on the onos, or rework the skill entirely. A brilliant suggestion over in S&I that was unfortunatly buried in the 12 new posts an hour proposed that redemption instead would give you a portion of the resources you spent on evolving back to you when you died. It struck me, and many other members of the community, as an excellent and equable solution to our problem.
  • surprisesurprise Join Date: 2003-01-16 Member: 12382Members, Constellation
    well, but if the comm has already 1000 res, then res 4 redem is of no use at all
    pwerhaps we have to think about a new way it works, not only about numbers...

    what about an onus not beeing able to move when redem starts to pull him back after a notification (might be a sound) tells hm 3 seconds before redem activates
    -the function would be the same , but
    -marines have a bigger chance of killing the onos, he cant run around, making it easier to shoot him
    -onos will have to search for cover when redem warns him, he has a chance to run around the next corner to wait for beeing sucked to the next hive

    might need a bit testing perhaps...
  • SlothropXSlothropX Join Date: 2003-07-21 Member: 18315Members, Constellation
    Oni now have to pick devour or redemption. Given how a single level 3 LMG clip can put an Ono at critical health, they would be an absolute waste of resources if they couldn't be redeemed.

    On the other hand, immortal Oni are rather problematic. There are lots of nasty nerfs proposed that would absolutely ruin the class and cripple the alien team. I'd prefer to see a brief period of "Redemption wounding", wherein Oni would be at less than full power in several ways after they redeem. They might have a slower running speed, or their energy meter could start out quite low (such that they couldn't even afford to use some of their more advanced moves, and they couldn't gore for very long). This effect would heal over a brief period, maybe 30 seconds, but it would also be cumulative. If an Ono was half healed of his redemption wounds when he redeemed, the remaining 15 seconds would be added on for a total of 45 seconds until he's fully recovered.

    This would either slow down the pace of Ono assaults or make them less lethal, depending on the approach one took. An Ono could either avoid hitting large Marine bases until he was fully recovered from his last redemption, or he could keep rushing in and only using his Gore (and becoming quickly exhausted, even with adrenaline). In either case, the marines wouldn't have the sort of constant onslaught of Oni, but they would still be something to fear.

    Other aliens probably wouldn't need redemption wounding.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    Urgh. There are only so many redemption Oni running around. Ask your commander to spend 20 resources on mines and make an Onos trap (9 mines right on top of the first). There's no way the Onos will redeem from that. And not only that, but if you shoot the Onos enough, it will die before it redeems. Now please quit whining.
  • MintmanMintman Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16866Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Aug 16 2003, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Aug 16 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, and oddly enough i discovered it on ns_origin as well. We had everything in the game researched. FULL tech. We had every single res node electrified with about 3 turrets around it just to keep gorges away, we had like 1000 resources that we had nothing to spend on. We took down two hives but then the game became a stalemate because 3 onos rushed our base and took EVERYTHING out. Luckily we emergency relocated to the double node room, cargo storage, which had about 4 elec TF and a kazillion turrets in it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you had res coming out your ears you should have built more turrets, mined the entrances and built backup tfs and arms labs etc. Then there are a few options for your redemption onos: he's blown into a million pieces by 10 stacked mines, he's redeemed by the turrets before he gets close or he gets in your base and manages to tickle a structure before being redeemed. With loads of res you can either weld this structure or build 5 more to replace it.

    *Shrug*
  • ScarletPhoenixScarletPhoenix Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19133Members
    I like marines getting res when aliens redeem. It means that that onos who keeps running in and attacking turrets with abandon will not only have a 10% of dying, but will also give a couple res to the marine team. It's still worth it for the Onos to get redeem if that's his playstyle, but the marines could fuel another HA/JP/heavy weapon rush if the siege goes on long enough instead of a stalemate.
  • someonesomeone Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18588Members
    I was commanding on ns_nothing. We had a kick **** marine team for once. We captured cargo bay early on in the game (not a relocate, just a lockdown) and had just finished pushing through powersilo. I had all the weapon and armour upgrades done, and I was calling my troops back to regroup to assult the great viaduct. Well just about this time a 1 hive onos come strolling into the base, takes down the turret factory, and camps the phase gate and nubs every single marine that came through. I dropped a cc in cargo bay before the chair was destroyed and frantically told my team to go to cargo, but by then there was only one marine left, and he was about to walk into marine start. Needless to say he also was taken down.

    It pisses me off that ONE onos that only has 1 hive to back him up can take down a deceintly defended marine start and cause so much confusion among the marines that we go from about to win to getting ultra nubed and lose. I know that onos is a fundamental part of the alien team, but I would of liked to see the marines win a game by taking down all 3 hives for once, something that we were so close to accomplishing but I have also yet to see as of right now.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=42264' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=20&t=42264</a>

    I've been having problems with onii for ages. Not least because AS an onii I can win a match...

    The fact is as soon as onii come around every RT that doesn't have 7+ turrets and PG with willing marines will go down...
  • DiablusDiablus Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
    as onos i always get regen, i cant stand sitting in a hive away from a battle
  • The_GodfatherThe_Godfather Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14314Members
    I think i know why aliens win so much, Its because the aliens dont need 3 hives to go onos, in 1.04 if u had 1 hive secured as marines then you had a good start but now in ns 2.0 even if you have 2 hives you can still loose...
  • JamlJaml Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9054Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--The_Godfather+Aug 16 2003, 08:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_Godfather @ Aug 16 2003, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think i know why aliens win so much, Its because the aliens dont need 3 hives to go onos, in 1.04 if u had 1 hive secured as marines then you had a good start but now in ns 2.0 even if you have 2 hives you can still loose... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats the beauty of 2.0. It isn´t over till its over. Some balancing is needed but binding hives to evolutions leads to horrible slow endgames as shown in 1.04.
  • DarkWulfDarkWulf Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4662Members
    Why can't redemption be bound to a certain level of HP?

    So say if your HP drops below X (probably would be different for stuff like skulk/lerk, and higher for ono, gorge) then you would have a chance to redeem. So if your ono drops to below say, 20HP, you'd have a chance to redeem.

    Or perhaps once you hit a certain threshold a timer starts and if you stay alive for x seconds, the hive will have time to download your memory/whatever and THEN you redeem. So you get an onos below a certain level, and then you have 5 seconds to kill him, or he's gonna redeem?
  • PinheddPinhedd Join Date: 2003-03-14 Member: 14505Members
    I think the answer is not to change the skill but to change the values for the onos, right now an alien stands a 10% chance to redem (every .1 seconds I think) when they are at low health, if this was changed to 7.5 percent for the onos then the marines would stand a much better chance.
  • HybriDHybriD Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10631Members
    edited August 2003
    My view on the 'problem' lies with the marines. For some reason marines keep thinking that if they control/hold 3-4 res nodes and a hive they're 'winning' and can just sit back and tech up for a ha train. This may work on servers with inexperienced players, but from what I've seen, if the marines and aliens both control equal amount of res nodes (on most maps this is about 3-5 each) then an experienced alien team will get 2 hives and onos before a marine team can field a ha train. At this point, the onos take 2-3 minutes and tear down the marine res nodes and leave the marines in their base with the option to farm or recycle. (of course, this leads to insane amounts of onos are overpowered bs)

    The solution is simple: aggressive marine action. I was playing on [CoFR] and the game was going as expected: most aliens dropped res nodes leading to an early 2-6ish res count. Within minutes, most of us were around the 50 res mark and were gearing up for onos and a fast endgame. The marines however did not follow the pattern listed above and <i>actually went on a continued offensive</i>. Multiple groups of 2-3 marines consistantly harrassed our res nodes and slowely whittled them away (this was generally a 10 on 10 game). Eventually, the marines took over our nodes (with electrify) and by the time we fielded 1-2 onos they had a heavy train up and running. Needless to say ha train > 2 onos and while we could take out all their res nodes, we couldn't touch the train and it simply overran our hives (our second hive and stomp was lost within 2-3 minutes of the ha train running). GG.

    What the marines have to realize is that they too must continue attacking. The aliens NEVER let up the offensive and its seems stupid that the marines should. ALL marine teams that lost that I have played on have at some point decided that they had all the territory/res nodes they needed and just sat back waiting for enough res for a ha train.

    ps. For the most part, most 2.0 games I've seen are decided by which team can field their elite troops first (ha train or onos/2-3 hive aliens).

    pps. The people who are whining that redemption onos/onos in general are too powerful should realize that each onos is 106 res. Thats approximately 3 heavy armor/shotty marines. If you aren't fielding that many marines PER ONOS then of course youre going to get slaughtered.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    HybriD+ sorry to say this, but they sound like bad aliens...

    I've played a few time on the CoFR server and as a comm I also try to use continous assualt, but on the CoFR server - attack a res node you will get 1/2 the alien on your position in seconds. As aliens can react so quickly then essentially once you are 45secs from marine start aliens have a numerical advantage (they can reinforce a position faster than you).

    Also on CoFR most alien teams know the attack<defence<expansion... etc. Then if you attack they go for your bases and res you already hold.

    Aliens really can do all three (or at least two) at the same time. By the 5min mark I see most choke points lamed up on CoFR AND they have 6 rt's. So they have done defence <b>and</b> expansion...
  • EighteenTwelveEighteenTwelve Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19366Members
    "What I'm hearing is, basically, you want redemption to be as useless for the Onos as it is for the other aliens."

    yeah, cause res for redeeming an Onos makes it USELESS. I mean WHY BOTHER spending 2 res to never die? They get 1-3 res just for killing you! Man, so useless.
  • HAMBoneHAMBone Probably the best Commander Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited August 2003
    Its easier for marines to win a 10v10 than it is for aliens, if you have a good commander.
  • SasukeSasuke Join Date: 2003-07-25 Member: 18414Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (The_Godfather @ Aug 16 2003, 08:50 PM)
    I think i know why aliens win so much, Its because the aliens dont need 3 hives to go onos, in 1.04 if u had 1 hive secured as marines then you had a good start but now in ns 2.0 even if you have 2 hives you can still loose...  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thats the beauty of 2.0. It isn´t over till its over. Some balancing is needed but binding hives to evolutions leads to horrible slow endgames as shown in 1.04. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is clearly a lie... endgames in 2.0 have very often ended in gruelling stalemates, as marines grenade spam + turret farm, and onos taking out every push the marines might try to make. Basically, marines defending against onos early lose since they're spending their res on turrets, and marines not defending against onos... well, surprise! You just lost!

    I don't see redemption onos as being THAT much of a problem... I've seen them get taken down reliably (after 3-4 redeems, usually a shottie will manage to kill it at the right time). Especially now that onos can't redeem with devour, we'll see less lameness from the onos than at the dawn of 2.0.

    This seems to be an issue of speed and tactics... aliens will most likely get an onos faster than marines can counter with a lame farm/gl spam and HA/shottie. Marines are also reluctant to go overboard with turrets unless forced to by the onos. Especially with RFK, you're seeing a faster alien game than marine game.

    It's really hard to see where the balance lies. You see redemption onos (and other onos too) get totally owned before they can do any damage, and you also see them killing outpost after outpost. You see marines coming back from a 3-hives AND a forced relocate, and you see them completely unable to respond to a single early onos. It seems the balance lies more along skill (and a bit of luck).

    Er... yeah. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->

    makes sense?
  • EplekongenEplekongen Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8915Members
    that last one I cen agrre with, endgames on 2.0 is <b>much</b> worse than in 1.04. Turretfarming a base with 50 turrets is not an overstatement, it is the fact of NS.
  • n5667n5667 Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19829Members
    What about limiting the number of times redemption works? This would make the skill still useful, but force the player to be far more careful. In essence it would prevent the Onos from galavanting around the map with impunity.
  • SandySandy Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14120Members
    How about:
    Onos get one immediate redemption after they evolve the upgrade.
    Therafter, redemption has to charge each time, with some high timelimit (say 3-5mins).

    This means that during that time, the onos cant galavant around the map with godmode on. I think this is a better solution.

    Wrt the turret farming, i think 8 turrets max per tf is reasonable.
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    I am glad people can agree (primarily I am glad they can agree with me), that the redeeming Oni is the biggest breaking point in balance for 2.0. I had a conversation yesterday with some guy and I told him that Redeem was cheap, and he agreed, saying "<i>If I didn't have redeem as an onos, then the onos will only be worth 100 rez. I will never be an onos without redeem.</i>" That really **** me off.
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