How To Win At 2.0
MrPink
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
<div class="IPBDescription">'Cuz people aren't getting it...</div> So many people are having trouble adjusting to 2.0. It's rather simple really, stop thinking natural selection (1.04 style), and start thinking Starcraft!
Pretty much any strategy that can win in SC (abbrev for Starcraft) can be adapted and applied to Natural Selection. Here's a good example: In starcraft, when you play Zerg, do you send in solo units or even small squads of 2-3 into the enemy base, expecting them to kill them? Of course not! You group up and all go at the same time. A marine example: do you send groups of the lowest level units around the map in late game, expecting them to be able to succeed, even if they have good upgrades? No, they will get dominated by higher leveled units.
Whenever I see veteran or playtester commanders, they don't waste a lot of time and res turretting up everywhere. Instead, they use their marines to defend important areas, take a number of nodes that they can comfortably tech on, then use the res for more important things. It works really well whenever you have decent players. You can get heavy armor much quicker than seen on normal pubs, and if you don't think a squad of 5 HA/Shotties very soon (edited: see flames below) into the game doesn't scare the crap out of the aliens, your dead wrong...
I came up with the epiphany one day when my internet went down, so I played SC for a few games. Then, later that night I played in a clan match. I thought to myself, in Starcraft if I get a group of tier 2 units really quickly and attack with them, I can usually end up winning by suprise. How does that apply to NS? We won by rushing their base with fades as early as possible with level 3 carapace.
Pretty much any strategy that can win in SC (abbrev for Starcraft) can be adapted and applied to Natural Selection. Here's a good example: In starcraft, when you play Zerg, do you send in solo units or even small squads of 2-3 into the enemy base, expecting them to kill them? Of course not! You group up and all go at the same time. A marine example: do you send groups of the lowest level units around the map in late game, expecting them to be able to succeed, even if they have good upgrades? No, they will get dominated by higher leveled units.
Whenever I see veteran or playtester commanders, they don't waste a lot of time and res turretting up everywhere. Instead, they use their marines to defend important areas, take a number of nodes that they can comfortably tech on, then use the res for more important things. It works really well whenever you have decent players. You can get heavy armor much quicker than seen on normal pubs, and if you don't think a squad of 5 HA/Shotties very soon (edited: see flames below) into the game doesn't scare the crap out of the aliens, your dead wrong...
I came up with the epiphany one day when my internet went down, so I played SC for a few games. Then, later that night I played in a clan match. I thought to myself, in Starcraft if I get a group of tier 2 units really quickly and attack with them, I can usually end up winning by suprise. How does that apply to NS? We won by rushing their base with fades as early as possible with level 3 carapace.
Comments
these general discussion kids are growing up so fast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
good post otherwise, but you'll prolly get flamed for the 5 minute remark =(
what's funny is, people are actually playing NS 2.0 very differently from 1.04 but people say that they're playing it like 1.04 =(
No comm in 1.04 would sit on 1 res node, they'd quickly take AT LEAST 2 more and defend them with marines or pressure the aliens. noob comms in 2.0 seem to think that sitting in base and turreting up is somehow a winning strategy =\
It's very possible.
your armory isn't even constructed until probably 30-45 seconds in to the game (if everyone builds...)
then there's transit time to the res nodes, that's another minute. Then 20-30 seconds to build them. So we're at lets give a rough estimate of 2 minutes here... now you need to get advanced armory, build a proto lab, and research HA. Lets not forget he claimed a 5 man squad of HA/shotty, and that alone costs what... 150 res? You ain't getting 150 res beyond all of the building and research costs you just paid in 5 minutes. Not off 3 res nodes.
They play defensively and are don't consider their own troops good enough for defensive roles.
Imagine how the aliens would fare if they spent all their resources turning every res node into a fortress, and if all the aliens were afraid to leave this fortress...
I'm not denying that it can be done quickly, a lot quicker than most comms even attempt to...I'm just saying that to have 5 HA/shotties when the game clock reads "5:00" isn't feasible. Heck just holding both of the res nodes you took isn't feasible against a half decent alien team on most maps.
It's very possible. Try it, it works.
Why would someone not have played Starcraft? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm not following you.
Give numbers.
everything else is teamwork. The team thet cooperates the most wins, plain and simple.
We like to use numbers in our system of measuring things.
Our current record for "fastest second hive" is 2:58 (that's minutes and seconds for all you kiddies out there). We like seeing hard numbers, it helps us understand what strat works the best/fastest, both of which are often related.
Ok, build all the necessary structures and in five minutes you have it.
your numerical 'proof' against it seems to be 1-3 for x, 1-3 for y, 1-3 for z.
The mathematical possibility of 5 mintues would depend on number of players on team and how fast comm can click the upgrades and drop the structures. And if I recall the building speed of 2 players is more than 2x as fast as one. The real issue though is more along the lines of can you drop enough HA + welders to make this an actual effective tactic rather than a gimmick rush.
Yeah, same. Personally, I've done a few HA rushes (only a few), and they're fun. However, they seem to rarely work (I blame 6 pub marines unable to take down 1 skulk) on most pubs, unless I get some 'rine stacking (however, at that point in time, it's great tons of fun).
I'm curious about how you can do this in 5 minutes as well.
Advanced armory is 3 minutes, HA is 1:40 (Or thereabouts, I actually think it's 1:30) and then you have <b>thirty</b> seconds to build 5 HA+Shotguns+welders.
Aside from costing 175 res we have to take into account some other numbers.
We need 40 res for heavy armour upgrade, 20 for an IP, 40 for two res nodes (100 if both are electrified) and we're going to NEED base defence, so that is another 50 for TF and turrets. (TF and 3 turrets). Finally, we need another 20 res followed by 35 res for an armory that is upgraded. and last but not least the protolab itself which is 40 res.
Now if you have 3 res nodes that give 1 res every 5 seconds to a standard team (6vs6 assume for now) in 5 minutes you would at optimal get: 60/5*3*5=180res additionally. So you have the 100 res you start with as well, for a total of 275 res in 5 minutes in a completely ideal situation with 3 res nodes RIGHT OFF THE BAT! I'm not exactly sure however how the marine res system works (I couldn't find any conclusive numbers, so I'm more than happy to be corrected), but this doesn't seem possible.
The total cost of this strategy is about <b>420</b> res. You are saying you can do that in *5* minutes? <b>Absolute bollocks</b>. Even if my numbers for the res are wrong (and I think so), that is a HUGE amount of res to get in 5 minutes with an alien team that is presumably attacking you.
In reality the marines don't have 3 res nodes right off the bat. Now what I haven't considered is the res for kills system here, and that will give a very variable situation. Then again, I haven't taken anything off for med spamming, perhaps early shotguns or whatever else as you aren't using turrets to defend res outposts.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's possible. Why do people want to argue ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply put, I think you are utterly full of it and you can lose this 'try it for yourself' patronizing rubbish while you are at it. Put up hard numbers or shut up and stop belittling our intelligence.