Armoury Exploit ?

Hawkie · August 2003

Imagine this. A heavy armour marine with a grenade launcher, standing next to the armoury. He fires 2 or 4 shots off, then quickly points his weapon at the armoury and reloads this way, effectively not taking the full 8 second pause to reload.

He does this and is able to fire 1 grenade every 1 second for a period of about 5 minutes! He points himself at the amoury AND in the direction he wants to fire in, then simply looks up to fire, and down to reload instantly at the armoury.

<a href='http://www.scriptnet.net/exploit.zip' target='_blank'>Demo Here</a>

Should this be classed as an exploit?

esuna · August 2003

Not <b>really</b> an exploit as the GL marine is pretty inaffective since he can't move more than a metre away from the armoury.

DroopyDaDog · August 2003

Wouldn't class it as much of an exploit, heh only really good for dragging out games needlessly when marines get desperate.

Or if the armoury was placed to make use of this outside of the base, well it's res spent to make the GL more effective, either could die so it's not too bad

orioncs · August 2003

all it does is add to the lame factor of 1+ hour games. you get 4+ grenaders doing this and block with comm chairs and turret farm to block onos and you get the newest form of NS on pubs. fun...not. commanders who do this should be shot, dragging on a game for an extra hour is as lame as it comes. i played a game like this today on Sleepless server. sad thing is there were admins on and they did nothing. comm chair blocking, nade spamming, turret farming...all while whining for aliens to come finish...so pathetic i left in utter disgust.

so yeah GL reload/spamming should be considered an exploit and hopefully be tweaked in a future patch.

Bogglesteinsky · August 2003

its not an exploit

1 fade with 8 movement and 8 defence chambers near him. he can spam acid rockets forever. get 2 more fades and you end up with a wall of acid.

its not an expliot, its tactics

Wile_E_Coyote · August 2003

By all means this is an exploit. The grenade launcher was never intended to be able to fire like that. However, it is not as tactically useless as our colleages would have you believe. A marine with a GL and an armory outside a hive can wreak havoc with the hive and all it's defenses and defenders. I have seen this in action.

I assume this will be fixed in a future version.

However, I do see your point Boggle <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Bogglesteinsky · August 2003

it is not an exploit that needs fixing

the GL has a rof of (about) 1 per second.

the reload thing was rmoved in 1.04, but got reinstated for 2.0. therefore flayra must know about it, and the pts must have tested it, and they must have found it to be adequate. i think it allows for a diverse range of tatics, such as destroying a hive qucker, or holding back an alien advance

SinSpawn · August 2003

sorta exploiting, if you do it in a certain way you never have to reload, you keep firing 1 nade and it restocks as soon as it loses one nade, can't really stop players can you?

Movements were designed to givbe more energy as armoury are to give amo not to give ammo while you keep shooting

MMZ_Torak · August 2003

There isn't much you can do about it without really screwing up the GL or having the nightmare of the 1.04 armory. Just adapt, there isn't much that GL'er is goning to do against an Onos or 2.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>

Tiax · August 2003

I always do this when im defending base but now that I think about it, I think it would/should be considered an exploit. It is indeed gaining an unfair advantage due to a bug in the system.

Should it be fixed or left in and classified as 'non=bug', not sure. Its mainly a defensive thing if anything. And when used the marines are pretty much toast anyway so i'd say take it out.

MMZ_Torak · August 2003

FYI

This 'bug" you speak of was addressed in 1.04 and the fix was far worse than the problem. Therefore the change was reverted. Intentionally. Hence, it is now a feature and not a bug. It's Time To Evolve ™.

Paranoia2MB · August 2003

HAHAHHAAH

Dude..i wonder if that was me or not?
*downloads*

Grimm · August 2003

Because it allows a weapon to do something it was not originally meant to do, I see it as an exploit. Although because I havn't seen this happen in any games that I have played, it is not really a problem. Unless the "tactic" of multiple GLers around an armory becomes rampant, I don't mind it.

Paranoia2MB · August 2003

*watches*
*ends*
Nope, it isn't me...I did better then that guy though..lol..got about 4 Oni some skulks..fades..it was great <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Tsukasa · August 2003

So why not fix it, its not like theres only two options here. How about making it so you can't load ammo into the GL directly from the armory, AND not having it be a bugged pos like it was in 1.04?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

devicenull · August 2003

I don't think its supposed to be like that..
Try that with any other gun.
There is a pause before you can fire again, not a long one, but it is there
Maybe its because of the GL's cooldown time, and it is pretty close to the pause..

The sad part is.. that doing that can be reduced to a simple alias.. which I won't say because its pretty lame.. and if you are smart enough to figure out the alias, you should be smart enough not to drag the game out with it

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

Not like the GL is actually very useful in any situation other than armory humping to spam. In the field the attrocious reload time makes it an unpractical weapon, and a shotgun is actually better at killing buildings than it.

Ahnteis · August 2003

Not an exploit.

Was originally this way.

Then they removed it.

Then they put it back in.

im_lost · August 2003

If it is too big a problem then hopefully server admins will end the game when it is being prolonged unnecessarily. This will probably be a rule on some servers, and if it is a big problem, people won't play on other servers. I don't see it as a problem unless it is being used to drag the end game out.

SynapsisRacer · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkie @ Aug 12 2003, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Imagine this. A heavy armour marine with a grenade launcher, standing next to the armoury. He fires 2 or 4 shots off, then quickly points his weapon at the armoury and reloads this way, effectively not taking the full 8 second pause to reload.

He does this and is able to fire 1 grenade every 1 second for a period of about 5 minutes! He points himself at the amoury AND in the direction he wants to fire in, then simply looks up to fire, and down to reload instantly at the armoury.

<a href='http://www.scriptnet.net/exploit.zip' target='_blank'>Demo Here</a>

Should this be classed as an exploit?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
by any chance, were you in a game on a TFZ server (i think it was) and it lasted for about 90 mins before the admin was forced to change the map?

coil · August 2003

We've been discussing it. It may or may not be dealt with, but trust that Flayra knows about the issue.

MagiTek · August 2003

Whether intended or not, armory grenspam in its current form can easily drag a game out indefinitely. The counter to turret farms and mass HMGs is Umbra and Bile Bomb, correct? The problem is that the constant wall of explosions makes an area completely inaccessable to anything weaker than a Fade. And it's rather difficult (or should I say impossible) for Gorges and Lerks to use their support abilities when they're blown to smithereens the moment they round the corner. Without that support, Oni are torn to shreds in milliseconds.

A few days ago on Tanith, we (marines) had been forced to relocate to Waste Handling hive after a long and eventful game. We had full upgrades, HA, GLs and HMGs up the wazoo, but the aliens controlled the entire map. Soon there were 2 GLs constantly bombarding each entrance, and a line of turrets and HMG troops right in front of them. 10 Oni could have stormed the hive at once and it would not have mattered. Thankfully we quickly came to our senses and voted to recycle the base, since it was clear this was an unbreakable stalemate. But the fact that grenspam creates this situation bothers me.

The irony is that, as Minstrel pointed out, the GL isn't as useful as it should be whenever you <i>aren't</i> next to an armory. The reload time is too long and the changes to Umbra in 2.0 (allowing aliens to be very mobile and still use it) mean that it no longer serves as an effective counter to Umbra. If the current 2.01c changes were implemented in a final patch, dropping a GL would be utterly pointless for anything other than spam.

<b>The TL;DR version:</b> GL = underpowered, GL Armory spam = overpowered.

coil · August 2003

I disagree that the GL is underpowered away from an armory -- I played a game last night in which I spent much of the game as a HA/GL and, if I may say so, I was extremely helpful to my team. Some highlights included:
--providing cover fire while my teammates set up siege turrets near a hive (I actually fired *at* them, so the grenades exploded around them)
--a few self-sacrificing point-blank hits on Onos that were attacking outposts (never died, but always needed immediate welding and a medpack)
--the more traditional chamber/hive pwning

All in all, I felt extremely effective -- and I've always considered myself the worst person in the world to give a GL to. (: Maybe it's the new crosshair.

As for the armory -- read my previous post.

Ollj · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Aug 12 2003, 07:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Not <b>really</b> an exploit as the GL marine is pretty inaffective since he can't move more than a metre away from the armoury.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
the less a gl moves away from a base the more effective is he.
its a **** exploit.
its unlogic.

Z.X. Bogglesteinsky just drop an armory near a hive, electrify it (another not-exploit because PTs didnt fix it) , and nadespam the hive.

MagiTek · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Aug 13 2003, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I disagree that the GL is underpowered away from an armory -- I played a game last night in which I spent much of the game as a HA/GL and, if I may say so, I was extremely helpful to my team.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I use the GL often as well, and it's clearly a useful weapon in most any circumstance. But the question is, would you have been more effective with an HMG? Unless you're facing groups of structures or Umbra in an enclosed space, I would generally say Yes.

The GL has some very significant weaknesses, and unless it has equally significant strengths, it will be glossed over for the other more well-rounded weapons.

monkeymaster · August 2003

i do this all da time. who cares about it!. JUST PLAY!!!!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

elchinesetourist · August 2003

it's not exploit. End of discussion

armory reload code is there for a reason

whether or not you think it's <i>overpowered</i>, that's the issue

Maveric · August 2003

You could technically sit by the Armory with a HMG or shotgun, and do the same. the gun clip reloads first to stop you from reloading a half-empty clip you took from the remainder. not really much you can do other than make the armory give out full clips... *wink* *wink*

monkeymaster · August 2003

the armory has been doing it since th first version hasnt it ? if it has then dont you think the ns team would remove it if they thought it was an exploit? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

ZERG · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (monkeymaster @ Aug 13 2003, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> the armory has been doing it since th first version hasnt it ? if it has then dont you think the ns team would remove it if they thought it was an exploit? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No, for the last time: It was already in, then taken out, then brought back in.

Is everything in NS an exploit now? Before you know it we'll be dry out of strategies and tactics to use.

monkeymaster · August 2003

Exactly, it was brought back in, weather it was by accident or on purpose, theres nothing you can do but wait till the next version comes out, and if enough people cry about it, then the ns team might remove that feature.

Armoury Exploit ?

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