A Request To All New People!
Diablus
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
<div class="IPBDescription">new to 2.0 actually</div> this has prob been discussed alot in servers and such, but if your new to gorge actually if you are a gorge in a game PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! ask the team what they would like instead of doig what ur selfish heart feels like <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . last game a newbie not putting the name down, went gorge at 2nd hive, the WHOLE team was asknig and asking for a movnent, he puts down a sens and we end up losing
Comments
Also u said the whole team was shouting at him why couldnt any of u gorge and get it?? to lazy perhaps.
"Ok guys, what do you want? Movement or defense?"
If they say movement, I put down movement.
If they say defense, I put down defense.
If it's a split decision, I use my own judgement.
If they all say sensory, I put down an OC and let someone else waste 10 res.
EDIT: Sensory can be fun, I admit, but on the pubs I play on, the marines are learning how to counter it, and movement seems more useful.
I don't think losing was all the Gorge's fault...
-JohnnySmash
Sense(to cloak the Offense towers so they suprise marines, and cloak gorges while they build things)
Defense (for midgame onos)
Movement (Celerity for the xenoskulks, and adren for everyone else)
and I've adapted my playing style to that order.
really pisses me off when i see some joke plop down a movement first, and when we only have one bloody hive, it really isnt as useful as dee or sense.
I can deal with going defense first, but that encourages the onosavers to sit around and suck up res to go onos first.
Now sense, thats what its all about in early game... shure, if a rine feels like wasting his bullets shooting down every hallway to check for cloaked crap, yeah he can counter it, but chances are he isnt gonna see that skulk hive defender walking behind him ready to chomp his glutes off, or the offense chamber until its too late for him.
You wouldnt belive the amount of times I've seen marines bunny hopping around and go right OVER a OT, only to be spiked to death in the back.
Not to mention what a boon it is for gorges, out on their own, trying to build things, they just plop down a sens chamber, and if some rambo marine wanders by, the gorge just sits still and waits for them to go away, or even spits them in the back a few times, waits for the sens to recloak him, and repeat while the marine is confused.
Well get used to it. Movement gives celerity and silence. Both very powerful for a skulk to have. The only use for defense early game is either regen lerk or carapace skulk. Both are nice, but only work best when combine with some form of movement. Sensory is nice as first hive... sometimes. Besides give a cloak, it does just about nothing. Cloaking is NOT hard to counter at all. You just gotta know how. So please think before you call movement a joke.
1) Upgrades in 2.0 are far more balanced. Choosing the "wrong" one isn't really a game-ender any more.
2) I agree with the sentiment that one of the people yelling for whatever should have built it themselves. The majority of the team hoarding their resources for onos instead of building stuff in the early-mid game is just as selfish, IMHO. This isn't 1.04 with one perma-gorge - if you want something built badly enough to yell at the poor lone gorge (and there really should be more than one gorge at any given time in an average-sized game, I think), spend your own precious resources on it.
Christ... remind me never to join aliens if we're on the same server.
Christ... remind me never to join aliens if we're on the same server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol i always ask what the aliens want when im gorge infact im a very good gorge the point i was trying to make is why shout at the poor lone gorge when u can do it yourself, its just lazyiness not to do it since the perma-gorge is gone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And your reasoning about "whoever gorges first picks the chambers!" is not only selfish, but turns it into a free-for-all to get the chamber that will win the game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact of the matter is its still a game hes wasted his 10 res for gorge he can get WTH he likes yes it may be a team game yes it may affect the rest of the team but hes the gorge he can do what he likes.
If u read posts by other regs they often gorge and get the chamber they want not thinking about the team as they want MCs not SCs for the 50th zillion time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) Upgrades in 2.0 are far more balanced. Choosing the "wrong" one isn't really a game-ender any more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the chambers are now pretty sorted u get SCs u have stealth u get DCs u are an hard nut, MCs give u speed the chambers are now all sorted its not like the SCs of 1.04 anymore u can win with any.
On the pubs I play on, it's most likely to be the first chamber that is built. Celerity for a skulk is EVIL. Try hitting something that's moving like it's had 3 litres of red cordial concentrate that is also possessing sharp pointy teeth....Not to mention, the super fast skulk is capable of reinforcing almost any part of the map in a VERY rapid manner and then proceeds to rip apart marines almost faster than they can track the thing with their guns
I was in a server with a fairly decent team of kharaas last night. most of the time we went for movement first, absolutely annihilated the marines because we respond to their movements too fast with our celerity skulks and we had the gorges covering vast parts of the map also with celerity
ALL upgrades are equally viable in the beginning. Some just lend better to different styles
Also u said the whole team was shouting at him why couldnt any of u gorge and get it?? to lazy perhaps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or because maybe we didnt have the res, and the only gorge that did decided not to listen. i was in that game. you were not. I saw what happend. Its not that bad because sure, he made a mistake and hes new. But he really should've asked. It was in the rules.
The main problem with sensory is that it's nearly useless when you're attacking a marine base. As soon as they know you have sensory, they'll put up an observatory at every MAJOR installation, so your cloaking is nulled. If you have to get the marines out of your third hive, D+M is your best combination.
I'm a big fan of everyone working together democractically, but my gut still tells me that the guy who's spending his own hard-earned res to build stuff for the team should get a pretty big say in what exactly he builds. I find it hard to believe that the ENTIRE TEAM had zero resources between them. What I find far more likely is that there were a bunch of people sitting around saving for fade or onos, and expecting one lone gorge to run around doing their bidding.
The mere fact that there was only one gorge (as implied by the fact that everyone on the team was yelling at one particular gorge) immediately tells me that this one gorge wasn't the only one who had a problem being a "team player". In fact, he was probably the one making the biggest effort.
I agree with this.
your team should've adapted - it is possible to win with any given upgrade. they have their own different tactics.
silly to blame he gorge.
I'm not saying S or D first is useless, just that in general M is the better choice for first chamber. Second is a given, you need D to keep your Onos alive.
Sensory is good for:
- Cloaked areas
- SoF
The cloaking is effective for a while, until the COM figures out thet he needs to scan. The SoF is very nice, allowing you to keep track of Marines but later in the game it becomes less useful. Also, when Marines start getting upgrades S becomes weaker.
Movement more then doubles the power of all the aliens. Skulks with silence or celerity easily take on Marines. Lerks can spike and spore indefinetely and Gorge Gangs can now healspray forever. This chamber also never becomes weaker, Fades and Onos need it to.
Defense is not as useful as the others for the early aliens. It's more of an insurance policy for more expensive classes.
Having said that, S makes for very *fun* games. I usually ask for sense saying "Let's give the Marines a chance and go S, it will be fun too".
Oh, and I have still never lost as Alien when going M first.
Once I get enough turrets in that hive, the game is over. Sensory aliens just cannot compete late game as without movement they lack adrenaline (umbra, gas, bilebomb, stomp) or they lack defence. As my continual scanning nulifies their cloaking essentially for the whole game I easily wipe out an effectively 1 hive alien team. I have yet to see aliens win with sensory first in almost 20 games now.
Of course, movement first aliens are an entirely different thing...
so yeah sense chambers can help the attacking early on if the gorge builds one nearby the marine base.
But thinking about the chambers only helping You, the attacker, is rather selfish, the gorge is putting all of HIS res into helping the team, while you are probably saving for lerk, fade, or god forbid, onos early.
This is why I say sense should always be first, it helps the gorges the most, and I've had it save my gorgie arse many a time while I was trying to take a hive area/res node.
Typical scenario, I just skulked into the new hive in lets say Maitnance, I drop down under the grate bridges, and enter the vent to go gorge, then i plant a sens out of the normal walking / searching path for the rines, after I have a sense up, I'm free to wander around the hive area, without any marines taking potshots at me as I waddle for safety or build an offense chamber.
Now, lets say, Early game, I wanna help the attack effort with a sens, I just find a decent vent with some space(so the skulks can still zip by), or place it in an odd position so the rines wont just bump into it, now, they wont be able to see the invisible skulk next to the armory until they manage to complete an obs, and what chance will they have of doing that when theres a ton of invisible skulks wandering their base?
so yeah sense chambers can help the attacking early on if the gorge builds one nearby the marine base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because you are playing stupid marines. You would get thumped (and badly) by me as you waste your res on upgrades/towers which are about to be annihilated by my waypointed marines <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Also, scanning hives is my number 1 priority funnily enough in NS. It isn't like sense is a difficult chamber to spot (isn't that ironic?) because it has such an obvious effect.
Late game sensory chambers ARE useless except all but the most dumb of comms now.
"Ok guys, what do you want? Movement or defense?"
If they say movement, I put down movement.
If they say defense, I put down defense.
If it's a split decision, I use my own judgement.
If they all say sensory, I put down an OC and let someone else waste 10 res.
EDIT: Sensory can be fun, I admit, but on the pubs I play on, the marines are learning how to counter it, and movement seems more useful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, and you have to place sensorys in MANY places to make it really effective.
Sense(to cloak the Offense towers so they suprise marines, and cloak gorges while they build things)
Defense (for midgame onos)
Movement (Celerity for the xenoskulks, and adren for everyone else)
and I've adapted my playing style to that order.
really pisses me off when i see some joke plop down a movement first, and when we only have one bloody hive, it really isnt as useful as dee or sense.
I can deal with going defense first, but that encourages the onosavers to sit around and suck up res to go onos first.
Now sense, thats what its all about in early game... shure, if a rine feels like wasting his bullets shooting down every hallway to check for cloaked crap, yeah he can counter it, but chances are he isnt gonna see that skulk hive defender walking behind him ready to chomp his glutes off, or the offense chamber until its too late for him.
You wouldnt belive the amount of times I've seen marines bunny hopping around and go right OVER a OT, only to be spiked to death in the back.
Not to mention what a boon it is for gorges, out on their own, trying to build things, they just plop down a sens chamber, and if some rambo marine wanders by, the gorge just sits still and waits for them to go away, or even spits them in the back a few times, waits for the sens to recloak him, and repeat while the marine is confused. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hm, how to say this....
Your wrong.
Well get used to it. Movement gives celerity and silence. Both very powerful for a skulk to have. The only use for defense early game is either regen lerk or carapace skulk. Both are nice, but only work best when combine with some form of movement. Sensory is nice as first hive... sometimes. Besides give a cloak, it does just about nothing. Cloaking is NOT hard to counter at all. You just gotta know how. So please think before you call movement a joke. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
Yes. Do this. However:
Do you like NS? --> Yes
Do you want NS community to grow? --> Yes
How to achieve the above best? --> Stop yelling at the noobs and start teaching them.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
thank you path for seeing how putting a chamber down the team doesnt agree with CAN cost the game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw, to everyone else let me clarify something, he only put down 1... just one.... ONLY one, we lost our hive becuase we didnt have movment to get to the other ones, the team was mad most people quit and flamed him or her to death, i felt bad so i told him to ask next time, but they put down 1... just one.. then went fade.... why???.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I always go gorge to build one rt and a movement chamber and let the rest of my team do the same.
Nothing beats the old "OMG j0 r teh Cs nub OMG j0 r teh suxx" argument.
"really pisses me off when i see some joke plop down a movement first, and when we only have one bloody hive, it really isnt as useful as dee or sense."
Yeah, Celerity and a skulk early game is USELESS. I mean, how can some huge, fast moving alien that kills in two hits ever have a chance against low armour/low damage marines? Impossible.
The Gorge can put whatever the hell he wants down. If you want Sens, be a gorge and build one.
I generally ask my team, but it shouldnt be the Gorges job to constantly babysit all the other Kharaa.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Finally sense first is not mandatory, all chambers are pretty much equally viable. Ask what the team wants, if they get what they want they'll do better than if you throw down some random chamber. Also second hive chamber is CRUCIAL; it has the power to make or break the game. If res flow isn't that great, you'll want a MC for fades and lerks. If res flow is decent make sure you have a DC for the onos. Sense requires a lot of res in the beginning, keep that in mind. You need to place a lot them for you to be using them correctly. I think a MC1/DC2/SC3 is the best way to go in MOST scenarios. At two hives you have adren/regen fades(uber assassins) and celerity/redemption onos(protected investment tank). It's harder to control the map without SCs but for experienced players, silence is just as good as cloaking if not better, and celerity or carapaced skulk force the marines to spend money on upgrades if they aren't all ready.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
to add on there is no "best" order anymore. You have to choose according to map control, killing ability, and player techniques. A lot of fade players will want MC first instead of DC or SC. Or maybe you have newbies on the team, you might consider dcs for some carapace and redemption for the newbies who will probably save up for something they can't use well <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> . Sorry, still a little bitter about that...
Fin.
Fin. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can use them it's just not what I'm best with.
And it is the newbies fault that he can't use them.
Fin. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
edit: Seriously though, my post isn't about "my chamber is best." It's about adapting to a team situation. Putting down one chamber first always isn't being tactical or team oriented, it's being selfish and stubborn. I'm not saying you are these things. I wouldn't be surprised if EC makes use of SC's very well. But I would say sense first all of the time is probably not the best way. I can play with any of the three chambers first fairly effectively, some better than others, and I think that's the real goal, to have strats around the towers and not just the same old jp/hmg rush, dc/mc/sc way of thinking.