It Doesnt Just Take A Good Comm...
CioCioSan
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19235Members
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The role of the Sergeant</div> In my days of NS, ive commed, been commed, and won and lost as both. My biggest woe as commander was sending my rines with full upgades, motion tracking and weapons agains skulks that amubsh them and take them down, or just having my rines scatter everywhere, ramboing like aliens and getting eliminated 1 by 1. I couldnt kill the skulks, because if i left the chair, some noob what hop in, and that spells more disaster, but by comming, i was taking the best gun off the team.
This is of coarse, what every commander must deal with.
I have a mic, so when I comm, I am endlessly yelling at these guys to stick together, do where I want them, and not wander off. Still, sometimes, people dont listen.
The solution I have found is to be, what I like to call the "Sergeant". The Sergeant basically does what you think, he keeps the troops in line, and he leads by example. If youve seen Aliens, you know what Im talking about. The whiney 13 year old who sounds like a girl can comm, doing all the building and way pointing and directing, but it takes the Sergeant to make people follow orders.
The sergeant of coarse has his own responsibilities. He doesn't yell at the Commander, because then people will think that he should comm, and not listen to the commander either. The Sergeant follows the comms orders, and yells at the other guys to go with him. When one guy kills off 2-3 guys in the skulk rush, then says FOLLOW ME, people are going to follow him.
The way the Sergeant succeeds is he is good enough to kill the aliens, but he also tells people what to do, things that the commander shouldnt have to say. Things such as, "You build, everyone else cover", "Aight guys, get ammo and wait in main, were movin out", and "Stay here, wait for rez, STAY HERE AND HOLD THE ROOM".
The sergeant increases the use of teamwork in public servers on marine teams, making a more effective marine team, and even helping the noobs. A noob isnt so worthless if hes behind you shooting, even if he is clueless, he knows to shoot the bad guys. And he does this because some kid is yelling at him to follow, and being explained to along the way why it is so important to secure holo room, or why securing Cargo Hive is so effective.
Sergeants of coarse are obsolete in clan play, because organized teams shouldnt have a problem with people following orders, but in pubs, they can be very very effective.
It doesnt take much to be a sergeant, because most Veteran players are sick of incompetence. You have to step up and be gruff, but you cant be mean or people wont listen to you. Let them know you know what you are doing, and if they help you out they can win. The point is you cant criticize the newbs, you have to lead them...
-Cio
This is of coarse, what every commander must deal with.
I have a mic, so when I comm, I am endlessly yelling at these guys to stick together, do where I want them, and not wander off. Still, sometimes, people dont listen.
The solution I have found is to be, what I like to call the "Sergeant". The Sergeant basically does what you think, he keeps the troops in line, and he leads by example. If youve seen Aliens, you know what Im talking about. The whiney 13 year old who sounds like a girl can comm, doing all the building and way pointing and directing, but it takes the Sergeant to make people follow orders.
The sergeant of coarse has his own responsibilities. He doesn't yell at the Commander, because then people will think that he should comm, and not listen to the commander either. The Sergeant follows the comms orders, and yells at the other guys to go with him. When one guy kills off 2-3 guys in the skulk rush, then says FOLLOW ME, people are going to follow him.
The way the Sergeant succeeds is he is good enough to kill the aliens, but he also tells people what to do, things that the commander shouldnt have to say. Things such as, "You build, everyone else cover", "Aight guys, get ammo and wait in main, were movin out", and "Stay here, wait for rez, STAY HERE AND HOLD THE ROOM".
The sergeant increases the use of teamwork in public servers on marine teams, making a more effective marine team, and even helping the noobs. A noob isnt so worthless if hes behind you shooting, even if he is clueless, he knows to shoot the bad guys. And he does this because some kid is yelling at him to follow, and being explained to along the way why it is so important to secure holo room, or why securing Cargo Hive is so effective.
Sergeants of coarse are obsolete in clan play, because organized teams shouldnt have a problem with people following orders, but in pubs, they can be very very effective.
It doesnt take much to be a sergeant, because most Veteran players are sick of incompetence. You have to step up and be gruff, but you cant be mean or people wont listen to you. Let them know you know what you are doing, and if they help you out they can win. The point is you cant criticize the newbs, you have to lead them...
-Cio
Comments
Sadly, there are few games where I managed isolate the talent and assign a Sargent.
Played a match last night where we had a great commander. I gave him some useful advice and a few suggestions and he took them. He then let me lead the squad out. It was great - the team was able to follow me and take my field orders while I took orders from the commander.
We roasted teh aliens. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, if you have decent players who aren't ramboing then sometimes its faster to let them take 3 men under their wing.
On pub servers, nubs learn by example, and are less likely to rambo off with one guy beside them saying don't move. Sarges are also handy for cutting down on the comm whining and keeping morale up. If no orders are coming out, the sarges can say that the comm is busy.
People get panicy when there's no orders, no building, no guns. Even if you're in two units, it doesnt occur to some players that the comm could be working on the OTHER unit.
As another tip, I suggest to comms that they make sarges use voicecomm while the grunts use teamsay. This slashes the whining since grunts are too busy shooting to type, and also means the Comm only has audio cues to listen for - rather than wading through 200 pointless voices.
Eventually i become the support unit from on high....
Works quite well msot of the time.
That's what happened to me once <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Anyhow, I play the backchair comm once in a while, and comms usually appreciate it. A short "follow me folks." Will turn that disorganized lil crowd into an army. Also, the squad leader has a different POV into the battlefield then the comm, and knows whwat can be done and what can't. Comms can give waypoints, but it's hard to direct more detailed orders on the field. That's waht sergants are for. See a big WoL going through triad? Why not go through station access instead?
Really... and what server have you been playing on?
As a comm, Sarges are a godsend if they are good.
I agree with that , it would be great <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
A little step toward this way has been made already since by aiming at a fellow marine, you can see his name and some of his stats (health and armor porcentage remaining). That's particularly useful to follow one guy in particular, as otherwise the models have no distinctions from one to another.
Hey, if this idea of having the name had to lead to something into a future version of the game (you never know^^) wouldn't it be cool to have some kind of icon near the name to indicate that this-guy is com's sargeant?
I mean, il would be cool if the com may design someone among his marines to be the sargent/field leader/etc of squadX -and that this "promotion" would be marked visualy by an icon (maybe some strips or a badge) so that the squad would immediatly see who he is. And this icon would be placed at the left of the name of the soldier that would appears above his model (each model having his name "highlighted" this way)...
I think this could be a pretty good idea, what do you guys think about it?
I would also add that the alien point of view about this fact could be considered: I mean, should the aliens be able to see those icons or not?
(We are talking about strategy right here, since taking out the field leader would render a squad a little bit less effective).
And could this system be adapted to the aliens? (an "alien squad leader" doesn't sound likely but maybe a temporary "pack master" title rewarded to the most agressive -highest number of kills-)
Wohowww... this is exciting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But someone stops me, because otherwise I'll go like "and now what if.... and if... and it would be great if... and blablablah..." <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
players. If this is implemented the comm should appoint 'the sergeant'.
Some form of authority and organizer on the field can turn that rabble into a skulk meatgrinder.
On the other hand, there would be a problem if this guy decides the comm sucks, and goes off on a few
"errands", taking half the team with him <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
But what strategy game nowadays doesn't have a rank system?
I want more power to the comm. How about making it possible for comms to punish players?
Sometimes I really want to kill that stupid HA/GL rambo... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Moreso if the comm says a positive "yeah yeah, listen to Necrosis, do what he's doing".
That has happened to me. Once *feels proud*.
*generally* people will follow you in a group if they're in any way experienced. Rambos are more the type to run off, claiming you're a backseat comm. They will learn.
More often than not though, people love teams. Will it make it as an official feature someday? Probably, since its an advancement of the Squads idea. If sarges get really good, a skin could mark them out. And that means aliens can spot them - handy because anyone who has been victim to or part of a Sarge team will know the damage they can hand out.
Okay smith your here Jake your here. Alright boys check those corners. Clear alright move in oh man AMBUSH FALL back squad. Okay Survivors fall back and regroup with your unit here.
They work well also to point out things you can't see or hear
However, you don't need a Sarge to rally your troups. As long as they aren't all noobies of course... but then you don't have much hope anyways <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You have the power from the commander chair, as long as you have a microphone and the marines trust you.
Most of you can probably relate to this...remember in Aliens when the rines get ambushed...the Sarg dies, and chaos just breaks out...people shooting in all directions...thats what is sort of like in NS
We were taking Hera once and I was acting as Sarg...the aliens ambushed us and I got the first skulk but the 2nd and 3rd got me...my 3 newbie marines started runnign and firing in all directions...and were all mowed down by the time i got back...2nd attempt the skulk rush got a newbie first and I was able to keep order, screamin at kids to build the PG while others shot at skulks hoppin out of the vents...
It doesnt really matter in clan play, but it makes a HUGE difference in Pub play when the Sarg goes down...
-Cio
The alternative being that the squad leader can cause much more damage than the Comm and is arguably better protected since he's in a squad, not a CC. Having seen the damage a good team can do, its only logical to have sargekilling as the counter.
But thats something for the suggestion forums.
On topic - good point about not relying too much on sarges - sometimes they get frustrated and continue on regardless of the squad, and usually once they die the squad falls apart.
Sometimes i occupy this role by given them orders or advices like "check the armor lv of your mates and welder them", "chase the onos", "hold this position and wait for some other HA's", ... etc. and it works very well on a good team.
But i as commander you cant assign someone as sarge. He have to do it byself. As commander you can only support a "sarge" by give other team members orders like "follow name of the player" so the team members get bound on him.
cya
Scylla
On the pub side, the effects are lessened, but still invaluable. The comm can only tell what's going on so well, so it helps to have someone tell you what's going on or give you ideas. As for actually being a field commander, all you have to do is say things like, "follow me, we're going to go attack x location" or "I think we could siege it from the other side", or even just, "stick together, guys!" Generally speaking, the commander shouldn't need help deciding what to upgrade, but if you see a genuine weakness in the enemy defenses you might as well let him know.
For that matter, it should be the responsibility of any exeperianced player to let his comm know what will make him most effective. Personally, I'm usually happiest when we have lots of arms lab upgrades and a few shotties around. How well do you think your assult will go if you commander drops a load of JP and noone has every used them successfully before? (on the other side, that's why the commander should outline his strategy for the troops, at least in brief)
This encourages other players to spam.
This encourages a vote to kick the "stingy comm"
And then, as evidenced in todays game, some complete and utter fool will hop in the chair and spam 6 HA with the res the comm had saved for better weapons or a new outpost.
In so doing we were able to defeat an alien team that had 3 top top clanners from the start, ptesters even, although in their defense it was late and it was a pub game and their team's tactics seemed lacking, perhaps reflecting the quality of their other players. I have no idea if they themselves were dicking around. Whereas I had plenty of knowledgeable and smart troops, even if they were not exceptionally good combatants.
*Weep* I hate having the voice of a thirteen year old even though I can buy alcohol. Y_Y Maybe I should take up smoking until I have a nice, grizzled, leathery voice that people can't help but obey.
Other than that, it's extremely helpful for the comm if you have two or even three of these guys on your team. If the comm has played quite a few games with his sarges, they should all know the drill, and be able to work with even the lousiest of players.
The reason people play NS in the first place is for team-oriented action. When people are scrambling around and a comm is dropping medpacks for another squad, they get panicy and think absolutely nothing is being done. Also, there's that syndrome of "Comm just sent me to a dangerous WP, but I don't see anyone else going... I guess he meant it for someone else. I'll stay here in the base."
When someone says "Follow me," everyone's lust for teamwork kicks in and they follow. Simple as that - you don't need a hundred kills. You just have to seem like you know what you're doing.
My problem with some sarges is that they interfere with the game tactic. Example in Tanith - Marines held Reactor Room for the longest time with a TF and a few watchful eyes. Aliens finally organize and rush the place just as I get phases up. An Onos is standing on the PG, so we can't send reinforcements, and the room is pretty much lost. So, I decide that it'd be better to rush SatComm with shotties and GL and lock it down while the aliens are all occupied in RR. That would mean no celerity, xenocide, web, primal scream, charge, or acid rocket to deal with while retaining a second RT and having an easily accessible one nearby. I figured that would've been great - so I told everyone to rush to Sat. Sarge said otherwise - he told my guys to keep rushing RR. Voila - we never recovered RR and soon had a bunch of primal scream'ed, charging Onos and exploding chihuahuas in our base.
Summary: Sarges NEED to listen to a comm if they seem that they know what they're doing.