Should Onos Redempt?

Hunty · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Should onos redempt at all?</div> As a comm,ive noticed that onos never seems to die when they have redempt.The only way we managed to destroy 2 redempt onos was to lock down RR,seige TGV then jet PS down so they couldnt redempt back to cargo(being built).The most damaged ive seen them is get down to oh yellow,about 2 bars above red with 4 marines firing at it with shotguns.

Ask yourself why redempt should give you godmode against anything other than 75% of the entire marine team firing at you at once.Add into account theres usually more than one onos...

2 onos with redempt vs 8 marines with level 3 shotgun = they redempt.Thats how powerful it is(its highly unlikely that all the buckshot hit at the same target so please dont tell me how onos would be insta killed....)

USCMLieutenant_Ripley · August 2003

Redemption overall is just too strong is what "onos shouldn't be able to redeem" boils down to. I don't think this is totally ridiculous. Perhaps the idea of completely avoiding death (as per comm health from god) would work better if it halved your alien resources or cost some fixed amount...which would have to be substantial. This would probably silence marine complaints that there is no downside (which there basically isn't) while promoting regen/carapace. Just a thought.

DarkFrost · August 2003

In theory if 4 marines hit the same onos with levl3 shotguns at the same time it will die, but that doesnt happen often sadly.

monkeymaster · August 2003

did they say in v2.0 the bug where onos gets stuck in the wall after redempting was fixed ?? cause iof they said it is, its not!, it happened to me the other day and its very frustrating = (

JohnnySmash · August 2003

Yeah this is an issue I've been thinking about lately. Should I give my Onos 16%/32% more armor as my defensive upgrade? Or should I spend 2 res to save 100 res (over and over and over and over again)?

You really don't have a choice- it's drawback is too negligible. Aliens will get thousands of res worth of an advantage over the course of a game- and it is sheer ridiculousness. Concerning any unit- not just Onos, although it's best with Onos since it'll last longer befor redemption kicks in.

But then again- perhaps Flayra WANTED aliens to be able to gain a gigantic resource advantage via these means? Certainly it would be imbalanced for a Marine to respawn with it's former equipment (which is basically what redemption is).

Redemption needs a limit on it's effectiveness. I originally thought it only had one use- and why not? Although I'll admit I still wouldn't think twice in choosing it over carapace.

Perhaps when you Redempt you would come back with a maximum of half health and armor and you can only use it once? This would place it more in league with the other upgrades- something that's enjoyable to use and changes your experience slightly. Instead of redemption giving you oodles of free resources, you would simply get to live a second life as your unit with less heath.

But again- perhaps the game was balanced around this. Perhaps that scenario wouldn't work because that drawback combined with Redemption's original drawback would be too much. Perhaps Redemption should merely return the player once they go below half health- making it a much more choicier choice to make.

There are a thousand ways to look at this- but IMO it has too many fundamental advantages in regards to resources. IMHO nothing should have such a huge effect on the resource model of the game. Even if it was intended- it is often too much better than Carapace or that other Defense upgrade.

Just some thoughts... note I'm not a hardcore NS player but Redemption (and turret farms <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> ) have been the main things bugging me.

-JohnnySmash

Jabba_The_Hunt · August 2003

There is a big dis-advantage to having redemption and that is that you don't have regeneration. Regen gives you about 50 health every 3 seconds which is a very powerful upgrade, and remember a redemption onos will be able to do a lot of damage before the marines redemp him, I would prefer to spend 100 res and be able to destroy a marine base (which i've done on my own before (ok, well there wasn't any marines around, but there must have been 7 turrets there)), or atleast take down a turret factory, than spend 100 res going back and forth continually taking 5 health off one turret just to have the marines weld it again and again and again and again... well you get the idea.

matso · August 2003

There is a couple of problems with redemption, which is why pro players seldom pick it.

First of all, redemption kicks in very early. 2-3 shotguns will redempt or kill an unsupported onos before it can do any serious damage.

Secondly, once you have 100 res again as onos, anything you earn is just wasted. You need to die more often...

Denial · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (matso42 @ Aug 10 2003, 06:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Secondly, once you have 100 res again as onos, anything you earn is just wasted. You need to die more often...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> I thought it went to the team res pool, helping your team (esp. gorges) a lot?

IMHO, redemption never really fitted into the game. It appears illogical (how can aliens teleport? and if they can, why don't they use it more?), causes stuck issues and is practically useless for skulks and lerks. If you ask me (which I know you don't <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>), redemption should be replaced by something that gives you constant being-in-umbra. That means an upgrade that is probably more effective than carapace in most fights, but makes ambushing harder (the umbra cloads wouldn't cloak with the alien), is vulnerable to the GL and does not stack with regular umbra. Which would probably be cool for the onos, but far from the effectivity of redemption.

TheEnigma · August 2003

I honestly rather like redemption, but I do think that with an onos it can make guerilla tactics far too easy.

Oh, and let's have a little english lesson, people can't seem to get this right.

Verb: Redeem
Noun: Redemption
Past Tense: Redeemed
Future Tense: Will Redeem
Present Tense: Redeeming

(Redempt is not a word, k)

The_Finch · August 2003

The Onos is the only lifeform on which redemption works reliably. Since they have so much health, they have a much larger "red zone" in which redemption will be activated. Basically, everyone who's saying "nerf redemption" is saying "I want it to be just as worthless as it is on the other lifeforms".

In spite of what some people are saying, redemption isn't "god mode". Onos are actually taking a large hit to their combat effectiveness since they keep getting pulled back to the hive where they have to regenerate, then run back to the battle. Regeneration Onii are actually far more dangerous when played properly, since they don't have 1-2 minutes in between their attacks.

lolfighter · August 2003

What Jabba The Hunt and The Finch said. And look how long it takes to save up to 100 res in the early game compared to how long it takes in the late game: If the marines wouldn't let the aliens have nearly all of the nodes, there wouldn't be that many Onos around, and taking would one would be a harsh blow.
And redemption Onos are far from invincible, I talk from experience. A mixed-weapons HA squad or jetpackers with shotguns and hmgs can butcher it. They won't always succeed, but they will succeed quite often.

Should Onos Redempt?

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