Why Is Eat-redeem So Bad?

Monkeybonk · August 2003

Isn't goring a person to death and then redeeming the same thing? If I charge into a base and kill 5 marines, and redeem, it's okay. If I eat one person and redeem, everyone freaks out.

Someone explain this to me...

Some_tall_guy1 · August 2003

When you eat someone, they can be freed if you die, by redeeming that makes it next to impossible, and if your a smart onos you would eat a HA to cripple the marine team.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

...

So they complain that he dies, but there's a chance to bring him back to life, and he redeems...

but they don't complain when he 100% completely kills someone and then redeems. Next they'll be saying xenocide is unfair because you can't kill the skulk after he attacks...

What if devour was an instant kill, and you couldn't save the marine at all? Would people still complain?

Jean_Luc_Picard · August 2003

Lol, already it's next to impossible to free an eaten friend... it's sad when 4 lvl 3 HA HMG"s can't kill the onos that ate the fifth member of the group... the HMG cone of fire seems to be widened rather than tightened! I see bullets bouncing EVERYWHERE!

Vigilante · August 2003

The issue is that Devour is a 1-hit "kill" against any marine, and has the effect of a greatly increased reinforcement time. This single-hive attack is supposed to be balanced by the ability to rescue the marine from the belly of the beast, but the effectiveness of redemption is such that the chance to do so is negligible.

Thus, the combo is unbalanced.

OttoDestruct · August 2003

Why not just do the logical thing and lower the chance for redemption to work on an Onos? And funny as much as marines complain about that they never say a word about a shotgun being able to take down a Fade in two hits.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vigilante @ Aug 9 2003, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The issue is that Devour is a 1-hit "kill" against any marine, and has the effect of a greatly increased reinforcement time. This single-hive attack is supposed to be balanced by the ability to rescue the marine from the belly of the beast, but the effectiveness of redemption is such that the chance to do so is negligible.

Thus, the combo is unbalanced.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Shotgun kills most anything in 1 second... redemption or not.

Trojan2 · August 2003

One hit kill? yeah for fricken 100res! shotty cost how much? has a decent range and is allso a one hit killer aginst most aleins. Or how about that HMG, Yeah it takes sevral hit to kill but whats its RoF agin?
I find that GOOD marines have few problem killing onos. 3 HA/HMG mairnes with the disaplin to stay together, form fireing lines and make sure to fire down hallways will ALLWAYS kill a onos regaurdless of redemtion.
I will cede this, And i feel its a better solution to the problem then nerfing devoure or "screwing" marines.
Simple make it so that if the onos is forced to redeme the marine in his belly stays behind! Personally I dont get why some spooky tellaporter would zap the marine back along with the onos anyways. Problem solved!
This is fair to all sides, doesnt leave any team short sided and (i feel) makes more sense.

Sarisel · August 2003

Often you will not have enough coordination to put in those needed shots to down an Onos before it redeems. Which is why they nerfed redemption by making it not work with someone in your stomach in the betas.

Cheez1 · August 2003

It's pointless anyhow. IMO all it will do is make people use stomp+gore combo or charge instead of devour...

Cry_Havoc · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vigilante @ Aug 9 2003, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The issue is that Devour is a 1-hit "kill" against any marine, and has the effect of a greatly increased reinforcement time.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And any weapons that were being carried most likely won't be picked up again.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Aug 9 2003, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One hit kill? yeah for fricken 100res! shotty cost how much? has a decent range and is allso a one hit killer aginst most aleins. Or how about that HMG, Yeah it takes sevral hit to kill but whats its RoF agin?
I find that GOOD marines have few problem killing onos. 3 HA/HMG mairnes with the disaplin to stay together, form fireing lines and make sure to fire down hallways will ALLWAYS kill a onos regaurdless of redemtion.
I will cede this, And i feel its a better solution to the problem then nerfing devoure or "screwing" marines.
Simple make it so that if the onos is forced to redeme the marine in his belly stays behind! Personally I dont get why some spooky tellaporter would zap the marine back along with the onos anyways. Problem solved!
This is fair to all sides, doesnt leave any team short sided and (i feel) makes more sense.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The game was fairly young and we were still level 0 marines. When the onos came.

We each (What, 3 of us?) put less then a clip in him and forced him to redeem. If we had level 3 weapons we'd have pwned his **** in 3 shots.

Doombringer · August 2003

Ah, I remember the days when Devour wasn't even a concept...

But anyway. It IS kind of cheap to have an Onos disappear with your teammate in his belly, giving no chance of rescue. However, that's only one out of a few cheap things still left in NS. The team has done a lot of tweaking and I'm glad they stomped the bugs/exploits/balance issues that they have, and I'm glad they keep working at it.

I'd say... either lower the chance of redemption based on the hive level (first hive muncher/redeemers will have less a chance), or have the digesting marine spat out when the Onos redeems. Lower the 'rescued' marine's armor to 0. Something like that.

TiberRaptor · August 2003

I always suggested (since I suck at marines, and seldom win on the marine team) that if a marine is devoured, he should be able to attempt to rescue himself with his knife. This would add a few more variable into the rescue aspect of devour. If the other team mates are trying to rescue him, they could possibly do enough damage to the onos for the devouree to kill it the rest of the way with his knife (provided the healing from the marine's subtracted hp was removed). At least this way, it could be blamed on the marines more if he was rescued.

CForrester · August 2003

I think he should be spat out when redeemed, but all he has is his pistol and knife. His armor would be 0. Then you can still patch him up, but naturally, he dropped his main weapon in the Onos' stomach, and the stomach acid tore through the armor to start digesting him, anyway.

ooo · August 2003

Meh, its just too damn cheap

Nevermore · August 2003

i donno. its odd. some days ill see Onos redeem all day long and almost never die. other days, ill see a redemp-onos go down on his second run. it almost seems random.

also, ive noticed people getting ticked off because it'll redeem an onos really really early (like 250 health on some, supposed, occasions).

just for my own sake, does anyone know the numbers behind redemption and how they were changed from the other build? (i remember before it seemed like redemption would only work occasionally. personally, i liked it better that way. it wasnt so "full proof")

fo_sheezy_my_neezy · August 2003

lag seems to have alot to do with redemption either working or not. As for wether or not he should redeem at all....... to balance it, switch devour with stomp and nerf stomp a little, but leave devour alone. Devour is pretty much the only way to counter HA (since they won't make lerk spores even damage the armor [non-intuitive because spores hurt LA armor and not just health], but that's a WHOLE other thread)

MEShootHere · August 2003

Like I suggested in another post, why don't we just make it so that when the Onos redemps, he leaves all non bacterial material behind (ie. the digesting marine) and the rine pops out as if the onos had been killed.
Would make sense (in a world of space marines battling bacteria aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>).
Right now it's an upsetting balance issue but as seen in the beta patch forum, flayra is working hard on fixing balance issues <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Assistend · August 2003

First
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It's pointless anyhow. IMO all it will do is make people use stomp+gore combo or charge instead of devour... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
There is no gore its called claws

Second 1 lvl 3 hmg can redem a onos with 50 shoots

2lvl 3 hmg <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> can kill a redem onos while he walks a few steps towards the
marines

even 1 lmg clip with good aim can redem a onos

Stop complaining noobs get skill

Frenchman · August 2003

Next you'll be saying that one really good ub3r player with skills like yours can take down a redeem onos with your bare teeth. Until then, you're just a n00b with no skills.

Grahnaide · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frenchman @ Aug 10 2003, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Next you'll be saying that one really good ub3r player with skills like yours can take down a redeem onos with your bare teeth. Until then, you're just a n00b with no skills.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well one time i welded an onos and he got redeemed, but he wasn't looking at me he was going for the armory.

Epidemic · August 2003

With Devour you lose the weapon the person is carrying, it's also DAMN annoying to be eaten

Diablus · August 2003

i agree with the onos devour + redeem leaves the marine behind instead of it not working, ull be seeing less and less marines being devoured and HA groups wouldnt be crippled due to the fact redeem wont work if he evours a HA in a pack of 4-5. the only time ill be using devour now is on a lone marine near dcs, if your going to get rid of onos redeem while hes devouring then u might as well get rid of devour becuase it wont be used

Why Is Eat-redeem So Bad?

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